GNOME developer quote of the day
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Comments (46)
26 earlier comments in the full thread.
I'm looking at KDE 4.6 in Natty, and unsurprisingly it is still a bloated, disorganized mess of non-functional eye-candy, and insanely escalated levels of self-dependencies. Which means that KDE apps are further away than ever from portability and require hundreds of megabytes of KDE dependencies such as kdepim, which has inserted its tentacles into everything whether it makes sense or not, kdebase, and kde-runtime. But I'm not worried, because everything will be better in the next release. Just like in all previous releases! So we have Gnome with no functionality, and KDE4 with no practical functionality. Yay, choice is awesome! Fortunately there are other choices, such as XFCE, LXDE, and the Mac.
> What I can't figure out is how to go about signaling "all clear" -- that it's safe to try out the software and consider returning to KDE for my desktop.
Just set up a virtual machine (you can use the OSE version of Virtualbox to do so), install a newer KDE distro and try it out, Dino. t's not like it costs anything. :)
Unfortunately, the latest version of Slackware seems to still be using 4.5.5, so it's probably not a good choice.
Just set up a virtual machine (you can use the OSE version of Virtualbox to do so), install a newer KDE distro and try it out, Dino. t's not like it costs anything. :)
Unfortunately, the latest version of Slackware seems to still be using 4.5.5, so it's probably not a good choice.
az,
I truely envy your way with words, it makes the second paragraph superfluous.
YBT
Quoting:I have 4.6.4 installed and it is utter extruded used food.
I truely envy your way with words, it makes the second paragraph superfluous.
YBT
@jdixon -
You misunderstand. The software is not the problem. That's easy to figure out with a virtual machine, or another, less critical box than my workstation. I do that all the time.
The question is about the developers, not the software.
You misunderstand. The software is not the problem. That's easy to figure out with a virtual machine, or another, less critical box than my workstation. I do that all the time.
The question is about the developers, not the software.
Quoting:What I can't figure out is how to go about signaling "all clear" -- that it's safe to try out the software and consider returning to KDE for my desktop.
@Dino,
I fully understand where you are coming from and the concerns you have. Before I continue, let me iterate that, I am not trying to convince anyone to use KDE4 because I fully understand that, users are people who have different preferences, needs, requirements, likes and dislikes. They are mature (computer-wise at least) enough to make the selection that is best for them.
Now that out of the way, and I believe I know you enough Dino that you do appreciate KDE4 efforts and I understand why you can't try KDE again. But don't you think the developers deserve a break for what they have accomplished? You don't have to use KDE if it isn't for you or doesn't meet your needs or requirements, but try it at least to recognize the good things they have done.
The KDE team did make procedural mistakes, we all know that and they even acknowledge that on occasions. But the technical excellence they have shown and continue to offer is astounding. Personally, I consider those errors to be growing pains.
Here we are posting about Unity & Gnome Shell 3 and griping about how they abandoned the classical desktop. Shouldn't we be a little patient/cautious and wait to see what and how the end product is going to be? KDE experience should have taught us something else besides the mistakes that were done. It should have taught us to wait and see and not to jump the gun as being done to Unity & Gnome Shell 3.
KDE Is offering, not only an advanced classical desktop, but a Netbook/tablet interface and a new one coming out for phone devices. In the future, who knows what else is coming down the pipe. It might be good or bad, but why worry about it now? Instead of applauding their efforts and encouraging their commitment, some are bashing them for something that has long been gone. Why don't we wait and see what Unity & Gnome Shell is going to be before we chastise them? They might end up with similar capabilities where users can pick and chose any one of multiple interfaces and dependent on the device in use without having to reboot or re-login.
My whole gripe is about the continued bashing of KDE even after it reached a whole new level of sophistication and elegance. It just doesn't make sense to me when some FOSS supporters bash the team instead of offering encouragement, which they certainly deserve for what they have accomplished so far. I believe we should be talking about their accomplishments instead and to help them with how to take in into the next level.
Say, now I know why Fettoosh sounds so familiar-- Blake Stowell, is that you?
> The question is about the developers, not the software.
Oh. I should have realized that's what you meant, since it's the salient point for me too. I agree, that's not easy to determine, if it's even possible.
Oh. I should have realized that's what you meant, since it's the salient point for me too. I agree, that's not easy to determine, if it's even possible.
Quoting:The question is about the developers, not the software.
@Dino,
You are not the only one who has issues with developers, see this link. I think it will shed some light.
http://dot.kde.org/2011/06/25/kde-ships-first-47-release-can...
We need to remember that they are FOSS developers. They come in with different personalities, kinds, and sizes, but they are also Free & free.
> But don't you think the developers deserve a break for what they have accomplished?
In a word, no. But re-read Dino's comment to me and you may begin to understand why. It's not an issue with the software.
In a word, no. But re-read Dino's comment to me and you may begin to understand why. It's not an issue with the software.
Quoting:Say, now I know why Fettoosh sounds so familiar-- Blake Stowell, is that you?
Who the heck is he? No, that is not him.
Quoting: I just googled: Wikipedia
Blake Stowell was the director of corporate communications for The SCO Group, and as such, played a significant role in the SCO-Linux controversies. He is currently PR Director for Omniture Inc. [1] [2] Prior to SCO, Stowell had worked for WordPerfect (1993 - 1995), Brodeur Worldwide (1996-1998), Novell (1998 - 2000), embedded Linux developer Lineo (2000 - 2001), and Microsoft (2001). Blake grew up in Bellevue, Washington where he bred and raised racing pigeons for most of his childhood and early adolesence.
@TC Are you out of your mind? if that who you are thinking of, now I am outraged. :)
@fettoosh:
Thank you for the link. It answered my question quite nicely, at least for now.
My workstation is critical to my ability to make a living, so I can't be too careful.
Based on that thread and in conjunction with past communications, the answer would seem to be, "not yet".
Thank you for the link. It answered my question quite nicely, at least for now.
My workstation is critical to my ability to make a living, so I can't be too careful.
Based on that thread and in conjunction with past communications, the answer would seem to be, "not yet".
Quoting: Some people need to get over themselves and stop this desperate plea for attention.
good advice
Quoting:... the answer would seem to be, "not yet".
I definitely would do the same if I was in the same situation.
The thing is, AFAICS, Gnome 2 is the best thing for types like us.
We really need the Gnome 2 DE to continue living, then I would be perfectly happy.
I just like it and I want to keep it.
Like some others above, I used to be a KDE 3.5 user and loved it. KDE 4 killed it for me. It was a bug-riddled resource hog and I've not looked at it since. Perhaps I should look again.
We really need the Gnome 2 DE to continue living, then I would be perfectly happy.
I just like it and I want to keep it.
Like some others above, I used to be a KDE 3.5 user and loved it. KDE 4 killed it for me. It was a bug-riddled resource hog and I've not looked at it since. Perhaps I should look again.
It was doing really well up until 4.5.2 when the regressions started filtering in. It finally chased me to XFCE4 for full time use.
When I left kde for gnome in 2008 I figured it was for good. I've checked back with kde over the years and always found it to be inferior to the kde 3.5 which they replaced. I have been looking at kde 4.6 in kubuntu and to my surprise it's not that bad. I'm thinking that by kde 5, it could well be a viable choice.
I used to be a full time KDE 3.5 user but im afraid my major problem with KDE4 is its resource usage it is way to high.
Now I love the KDE4 user interface have absolutely no useability problems with it even the cashew doesn't annoy me but until they sort out resource usage especially memory then I will stick with XFCE 4.8 which uses ram sparingly runs fast and has most of the features I need in fact the only thing I miss is digiKam.
Perhaps it comes down to something as fundamental as human
nature.
Developers want to develop. They want to explore new concepts, new territories, new angles on enduring challenges. Last year's best-approximation is last year's achievement; now it's this year's bar to surmount. They want the heady free feeling of revolution; why not, in FOSS that's mostly what they're paid in, not dollars.
Users want the best they can get hold of, when they're selecting what they're going to use, and then they want it to Just Work. No new surprises beyond familiar foibles with familiar workarounds, no wearouts, no deprecations or life-buys. Oh, and no new holes, either, which does mean backports and security fixes to an otherwise stable codebase. It ain't nostalgia, it's practicality, but to adventurous devs it's booooriiing..
In which case, Trinity points the way. Dev teams declare end-of-interest and hand the codebase over to maintenance teams in an orderly transition with lots of contact for answering corner-behavior questions and fleshing out sketchy documentation. The KDE devs are deep into KDE4, but, last I heard, they're helping the Trinity devs pull together an LTS version of KDE3, after which the KDE devs can dive fully into the new game without guilt.
Maybe the Gtk/Gnome side needs the same kind of fork-to-maintenance. Maybe enough commercial interests will even find that it makes good business sense to pay out some support for such maintenance teams, so they have long-term-stable APIs to integrate against in their own stuff and their own user manuals.
Developers want to develop. They want to explore new concepts, new territories, new angles on enduring challenges. Last year's best-approximation is last year's achievement; now it's this year's bar to surmount. They want the heady free feeling of revolution; why not, in FOSS that's mostly what they're paid in, not dollars.
Users want the best they can get hold of, when they're selecting what they're going to use, and then they want it to Just Work. No new surprises beyond familiar foibles with familiar workarounds, no wearouts, no deprecations or life-buys. Oh, and no new holes, either, which does mean backports and security fixes to an otherwise stable codebase. It ain't nostalgia, it's practicality, but to adventurous devs it's booooriiing..
In which case, Trinity points the way. Dev teams declare end-of-interest and hand the codebase over to maintenance teams in an orderly transition with lots of contact for answering corner-behavior questions and fleshing out sketchy documentation. The KDE devs are deep into KDE4, but, last I heard, they're helping the Trinity devs pull together an LTS version of KDE3, after which the KDE devs can dive fully into the new game without guilt.
Maybe the Gtk/Gnome side needs the same kind of fork-to-maintenance. Maybe enough commercial interests will even find that it makes good business sense to pay out some support for such maintenance teams, so they have long-term-stable APIs to integrate against in their own stuff and their own user manuals.
Many of the Gnome and KDE devs are paid. Not that volunteering should mean shoddy and undependable. (The economics of FOSS are all messed up anyway, a good topic for another day.)
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I'm torn about KE4, especially as I used KDE as my primary desktop for more than 10 years before giving it up.
I see more and more that the KDE technology is rounding into shape. That's a good thing, and I'm glad that lots of people are able to enjoy using it.
What I can't figure out is how to go about signaling "all clear" -- that it's safe to try out the software and consider returning to KDE for my desktop. That is strictly a matter of trusting the developers. I don't know how to determine that it's safe to do that.