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Tivoization: A necessary Evil

Posted by lordpenguin on · 55 comments
thepowerbase.com; By Tom Nardi
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Tivoization is a term coined by Richard Stallman and the Free Software Foundation (FSF) to refer to what they believe is a violation of the GNU Public License’s (GPL) spirit, if not it’s actual wording. In response to Tivoization, as well as a few other concerns, the Free Software Foundation released a third version of the GPL in 2007. The wording of the GPLv3 is considerably stricter than that of the GPLv2 and other software licenses, and has been criticized by many in the open source community. The stricter language of the GPLv3 has even been blamed for the current migration from the GPL to less restrictive licenses such as the BSD or Apache licences.

Tivoization is a term coined by Richard Stallman and the Free Software Foundation (FSF) to refer to what they believe is a violation of the GNU Public License’s (GPL) spirit, if not it’s actual wording. In response to Tivoization, as well as a few other concerns, the Free Software Foundation released a third version of the GPL in 2007. The wording of the GPLv3 is considerably stricter than that of the GPLv2 and other software licenses, and has been criticized by many in the open source community. The stricter language of the GPLv3 has even been blamed for the current migration from the GPL to less restrictive licenses such as the BSD or Apache licences.

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Comments (55)

35 earlier comments in the full thread.

BernardSwiss ·
Quoting:Should you get access to the source code of all the embedded computers running on your car? What about all the wiring diagrams, engineering specifications, design diagrams, etc? With all that information, it'd be pretty easy for anyone to make a knock-off of the car, or any of its components.


They can do that anyhow -- always could (and not infrequently actually did). But that's not actually even about users/owners, but about manufacturers.

It used to be my standard practice, whenever I bought a car, to acquire the pertinent third-party manual. I generally preferred Haynes manuals http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haynes_Manuals (more useful to a nerd like me who'd managed to have not taken auto shop in highschool, and wouldn't have more specialized tools) but Chilton was even more popular, or at least better known easier to find (at the time, more geared to experienced, even professional or semi-professional auto mechanics, since bought out by Haynes).

These manuals were much more affordable than the manufacturers' Official manuals, and often more useful -- some professionals, with the Official manuals at hand, still preferred these third-party documentation efforts, at least for particular brands or models.

The manufacturers of course objected to this "unauthorized" products, issued grave warnings about the likely consequences of relying on them (FUD is not a phenomenon unique to the IT field) and IIRC even launched legal actions against the publishers (I don't recall which precise grounds -- possibly copyright infringement?) but the third parties are still around, and these days the manufacturers have learned to actively cooperate, as a measure to improve customer satisfaction, loyalty, and other more direct economic benefits.

But the official and the third-party manuals all included the mechanical drawings, circuit diagrams, torquing recommendations and such. And I presume they still do.

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jdixon ·
> What about all the wiring diagrams, engineering specifications, design diagrams, etc?

I see someone has already mentioned Chiltons. My dad never bought a car without also getting such a manual.
ColonelPanik ·
"If you can't open it, you don't own it"

http://www.makershed.com/product_p/tsmk2.htm

Done, this whole problem is covered by a tee shirt!

Open Source Hardware
Khamul ·
@jdixon: Not all cars or mfgrs have Chiltons manuals available. In addition, I've looked at those before (admittedly, this was back in the 90s), and they never seemed to have any of that information, or only a very basic subset of it. It was only the factory service manuals (or frequently, the extra electrical manual only) that had full wiring diagrams.

Anyway, you're not going to get full engineering drawings or specifications or any of that stuff from a Chilton's manual. All it does mainly is show you how to perform common procedures on the car: changing the oil, replacing driveshafts, replacing timing belts, perhaps rebuilding the engine, etc. Do they have full chassis dimension data so that a frame-straightening shop knows what the proper dimensions between critical points (suspension mounting points, engine mounts, etc) should be? Do they have all the information on how integrated electronics modules work? Even the factory manual (which does have dimension data) has its limits; it's not going to have any information on the insides of any electronic modules, as that's considered a non-rebuildable component.
jdixon ·
> I've looked at those before (admittedly, this was back in the 90s)

The manuals I'm referring to were 60's and 70's. I doubt they had the full engineering specs, but pretty much everything else, including full wiring diagrams, was there. None of these cars would have had electronic ignition or computer controls. The only integrated electronics you would find would have been the radio.
BernardSwiss ·
I like the t-shirt!

@Khamul

We're talking about the customers here -- not full-fledged manufacturer's.

The whole point is about customers (aka purchasers, aka "owners") having the ability to tinker (or maintain, modify or repair) their own property, not set up in business making their own knock-offs (and as I said before, those wanting to mass produce such knock-offs were never stopped by not having the official documentation).

IOW -- We're complaining about manufacturers (or distributors) putting artificial and/or arbitrary obstacles in the way of the putative owner of their own property. Your asides about pirate manufacturers/counterfeiters are irrelevant to the discussion.
Khamul ·
@Bernard: The information needed to tinker (or at least, make it easier) is the same information that makes it much easier to make knock-offs. What if your car has an electronic control module (I think they call it the "body controller" these days) that's basically a low-power computer that handles things like turning on and off the dome light at various times, and you want to change that? You'd need not only the source code to that microcontroller, but a way of reprogramming it too, which can range in complexity depending on the type of CPU being used; if it's something like a Microchip PIC, you could probably use ICSP (in-circuit serial programming), but you need a special programmer for that; Microchip gives away schematics for their programmer for free on the net, but other makers like Freescale require you to buy an expensive software package to use and program their microcontrollers. But if it's something like an ARM cpu, then it's running some kind of bootloader, perhaps U-boot, then I really don't know how that would be reprogrammed if there's no ethernet port; they probably program the flash chips at the factory somehow, and if you don't have a way of reprogramming it, you won't be able to modify it.

The whole point here is that for mfgrs to tell customers how to tinker with their products would involve giving away a lot of information, perhaps even making design changes to make it easier. What if the product is potted? Then there's no way at all to modify it without cutting it apart and somehow removing all the epoxy; good luck with that.

There's a big difference between mfgrs putting up roadblocks, and simply not bothering to make it easy (because with modern electronics, it's frequently very difficult to modify something once its manufactured just by the nature of the technology).
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dinotrac ·
@skelband -

Ok. Not sniveling. Whining. Who's really going to stop you from doing whatever you want with your tivo. They might not help you,but -if you're clever enough and have enough resources at your disposal, i presume you can do whatever you please. Might void the warranty and might run afoul of the DMCA, but that's a different issue.
skelband ·
@dinotrac: "...and might run afoul of the DMCA, but that's a different issue."

Erm, no that's exactly the issue.

The DMCA was put in place exactly to stop people messing with their hardware. The cover story of piracy is and always was a fraud. So you want to stop someone opening and tweaking their hardware, then you add some preventative measures, and lo! you have the full weight of the law behind you.

Besides which, what on earth is wrong with expecting us to all get along anyway? Since when did it become weird to expect us to treat each other with honesty and integrity? Is it such a big stretch to say to companies, "stop treating us like idiots and let us do what we want with our stuff?"

If you're perfectly happy for the general public to be done over by these manufacturers, well that's fine. The rest of us worry that extraordinarily long patents and copyright, device lock out and a number of other measures which are being used to monopolise knowledge are a serious burden on our wider society. Seriously, these companies want to tun the general public into media consuming cattle, and they are already a great deal of the way along that path. They don't want people to innovate or challenge their dominance over all things knowledgeable.

I don't see a great future for the human race at the moment and it saddens me greatly.

Fettoosh ·
Quoting:stop treating us like idiots and let us ...


When the majority of us stop acting like idiots, they will stop treating us like idiots. :-)

Khamul ·
Quoting:Since when did it become weird to expect us to treat each other with honesty and integrity?


When big corporations took over everything, that's when. Corporations don't have any honesty or integrity (since they're all run by sociopaths with no conscience), and since such concepts are alien to them, they don't recognize them when dealing with people who do.
Fettoosh ·
I found this really interesting. It shows how companies manipulate consumers into buying simply by collecting personal information, buying trend, and about their habits.

How Companies Learn Your Secrets

BernardSwiss ·
There's also an excellent series of articles over at the Wall Street Journal called "What They Know".

Oh my -- apparently it's grown into an actual, regular subsection of the WSJ tech coverage:

What They Know

( http://online.wsj.com/public/page/what-they-know-digital-pri... )

jdixon ·
> ...It shows how companies manipulate consumers into buying simply...

"PLEASE LOG IN

Log in to manage your products and services from The New York Times and the International Herald Tribune.

In order to access our Web site, your Web browser must accept cookies from NYTimes.com."

Guess I won't be reading it.

However, the simple solution to being "manipulated" into buying things is to live within a budget. When you do that you know what you can afford to get and what you can't, and simply don't make impulse purchases. Yes, even people who live on a budget should have a portion of their income set aside as mad money, but even when you do that you find that you plan your purchases a lot more carefully and simply aren't as susceptible to such manipulation.

To be fair, it's been a number of years since I actually had the need to keep a detailed budget, but once you get into those habits they tend to stay with you.
tracyanne ·
they do indeed
Khamul ·
@jdixon: Did you try Bugmenot?
BernardSwiss ·
My carefully protected NYT cookie is on my old (fried mobo) machine

-- so I went in via Google. No problem.
dinotrac ·
@skelband -

It's AN issue, but DMCA is part of the environment in which Tivo exists, not a problem with Tivo itself.
jdixon ·
> @jdixon: Did you try Bugmenot?

For the NYT? Not worth the effort.
mbaehrlxer ·
BernardSwiss: heh, that's a neat trick. so they apparently check if the referrer is from a search engine and then allow you in.

fettoosh: that article was very interesting. not so much what target or other companies are doing with their data, which is informative but not very surprising, but more so the whole explorations on habit forming. that's very insightful and can be used in positive ways too.

now i can try to figure out what keeps me coming back to read lxer discussions instead of working ;-)

greetings, eMBee.

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