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Bye, bye Gmail, even snooping has its limits
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Comments (32)
12 earlier comments in the full thread.
My grocery card is under a fake name, and Trader Joe's has no card ...
A nice explanation on how to do this for Enigmail in Thunderbird:
http://enigmail.mozdev.org/documentation/quickstart-ch2.php....
http://enigmail.mozdev.org/documentation/quickstart-ch2.php....
I am of the following camp:
You get nothing for free... Everything comes with compromises. For society, you give up privacy and control for a place to live, food to eat, ability to chose mates and friends, technology, etc. For software or services you get convenience for either money, technical skill, or privacy. Open Source is no exception. The GPL has terms and conditions. Other people own that code,... you can just use and improve it as long as you follow the rules. For Google, if you want their web mail and/or services, you need to sacrifice a little privacy. All things considered, they are remarkably unobtrusive in their policies.
But if Google policies are too much for your sense of propriety regarding your information, don't use Google. I, for one, after reviewing their policies, have no issues with them. If they were the Gov't or if they released my info, IDing me to outsiders in what I do or look at,... THEN I'd have issues. But they use it to serve up adds to me that I'd prefer to see, anyway, over Viagra and hair replacement ads (no problems in either department here). They let me pay for stuff easier by holding onto my credit info,... no problems, they maintain an always on calendar for me, aggregating my data with others to sell to marketing firms,... no issues.But I am aware of what they are doing and make an informed decision.
If you want total privacy,do not use the Internet. Do not make purchases with credit. Do not have a mortgage or own real property. Do not get married or have children. Do nothing noteworthy in society. If you want something in between ,... pick and choose.
You get nothing for free... Everything comes with compromises. For society, you give up privacy and control for a place to live, food to eat, ability to chose mates and friends, technology, etc. For software or services you get convenience for either money, technical skill, or privacy. Open Source is no exception. The GPL has terms and conditions. Other people own that code,... you can just use and improve it as long as you follow the rules. For Google, if you want their web mail and/or services, you need to sacrifice a little privacy. All things considered, they are remarkably unobtrusive in their policies.
But if Google policies are too much for your sense of propriety regarding your information, don't use Google. I, for one, after reviewing their policies, have no issues with them. If they were the Gov't or if they released my info, IDing me to outsiders in what I do or look at,... THEN I'd have issues. But they use it to serve up adds to me that I'd prefer to see, anyway, over Viagra and hair replacement ads (no problems in either department here). They let me pay for stuff easier by holding onto my credit info,... no problems, they maintain an always on calendar for me, aggregating my data with others to sell to marketing firms,... no issues.But I am aware of what they are doing and make an informed decision.
If you want total privacy,do not use the Internet. Do not make purchases with credit. Do not have a mortgage or own real property. Do not get married or have children. Do nothing noteworthy in society. If you want something in between ,... pick and choose.
I think one can give up use of Gmail in order to avoid being a money-generating customer for Google yet still participate in other societal actions such as owning property and not be a hypocrite.
The line can be set at various places and not just all-in or all-out. Sure use of credit cards generates a marketing trail, and junk mail that results is a pain, but there's a lot of benefit as well. Gmail provides a benefit, but we can replicate that benefit cheaply without Google's "assistance."
Considering how much Google stands to make from targeting advertising to the average "user," and how cheap it is to either run our own mail systems or obtain e-mail service elsewhere, I'd rather fork out a few bucks a month (like I do for my shared-hosting account, which includes e-mail) and push the marketing noise down a few decibels.
I'd even consider paying for Google Apps if it meant that much to me.
The line can be set at various places and not just all-in or all-out. Sure use of credit cards generates a marketing trail, and junk mail that results is a pain, but there's a lot of benefit as well. Gmail provides a benefit, but we can replicate that benefit cheaply without Google's "assistance."
Considering how much Google stands to make from targeting advertising to the average "user," and how cheap it is to either run our own mail systems or obtain e-mail service elsewhere, I'd rather fork out a few bucks a month (like I do for my shared-hosting account, which includes e-mail) and push the marketing noise down a few decibels.
I'd even consider paying for Google Apps if it meant that much to me.
Don't for a second think I was labeling anyone as a hypocrite or saying that's all or none... there are choices to be made. If you don't want your data mined for setting marketing data tables, then don't use it... period. If you don't want your searches to be indexed, don't log in with an account, or use some form of ID hiding tool.
While I wasn't calling anyone a hypocrite, I was pointing out that there are extremes. There really is no such thing as total privacy. Never was. Human beings are social animals. Birth certificates track our entry into the world... Death certificate track our exit. It is impossible to avoid other people in between. So you need to make decisions as to how much and what you want to share. Most of those decisions are up to you. Some are not. There are some people that have little to no presence on the web. Others stick out like a supernova.
It's all about compromises...
While I wasn't calling anyone a hypocrite, I was pointing out that there are extremes. There really is no such thing as total privacy. Never was. Human beings are social animals. Birth certificates track our entry into the world... Death certificate track our exit. It is impossible to avoid other people in between. So you need to make decisions as to how much and what you want to share. Most of those decisions are up to you. Some are not. There are some people that have little to no presence on the web. Others stick out like a supernova.
It's all about compromises...
@CombBob: I use those discount cards all the time, and that always seems to be the way they work: they hand you a new card which gets you the discount and a blank form, asking you to fill it out and return it. There's nothing that actually forces you to return the form; you can just toss it in the trash and keep getting your discount. So all they can do is gather data on purchases by customer_1234, not any named person.
@Steven: Trader Joe's is good for some items, but they have no meat. Whole Foods is the best place around here for that, since they have free-range chicken and grass-fed beef and bison. The meats in the regular grocery stores taste awful; I don't know what they're doing to those poor animals, but it isn't good. WF doesn't have any cards either.
The only way to have secure email is with GPG, since it's all transmitted in the clear. The problem is that virtually no one actually uses GPG, so you can use it to trade secure email with your geek buddies (only the FOSS-using ones, and only the ones who even bother to use GPG), but that's it. For places where it'd actually be useful, such as for business correspondence, it's unusable because no one uses it. I have a small business; if I tried exchanging purchase orders and invoices or any other confidential communications with my customers using GPG, I wouldn't have any customers.
@Steven: Trader Joe's is good for some items, but they have no meat. Whole Foods is the best place around here for that, since they have free-range chicken and grass-fed beef and bison. The meats in the regular grocery stores taste awful; I don't know what they're doing to those poor animals, but it isn't good. WF doesn't have any cards either.
The only way to have secure email is with GPG, since it's all transmitted in the clear. The problem is that virtually no one actually uses GPG, so you can use it to trade secure email with your geek buddies (only the FOSS-using ones, and only the ones who even bother to use GPG), but that's it. For places where it'd actually be useful, such as for business correspondence, it's unusable because no one uses it. I have a small business; if I tried exchanging purchase orders and invoices or any other confidential communications with my customers using GPG, I wouldn't have any customers.
My gmail accounts exist so I can access things that require some third party membership, so having one or more gmail accounts makes it easy for me.
I never log into those accounts, for email
I never log into those accounts, for email
Getting a new "loyalty card" doesn't help at all, if you blithely hand over your credit card -- or worse, your AirMiles card -- with it.
Just remember; every competent study ever done shows clearly that the customers (AKA "consumers") would much rather have the "lower prices" marked on the shelves and the products, instead of messing about with those plastic tracking tags. And of course it would be less work and trouble for the vendors, as well.
Think about that. And while you do so, remember those stories that come out occasionally when someone once again notices that the same product (eg. a book purchased online) can be priced differently depending on which computer is accessing the site, or whether the user is logged on as a regular customer (no, the "established" customer is NOT the one who gets the "special deal").
Just remember; every competent study ever done shows clearly that the customers (AKA "consumers") would much rather have the "lower prices" marked on the shelves and the products, instead of messing about with those plastic tracking tags. And of course it would be less work and trouble for the vendors, as well.
Think about that. And while you do so, remember those stories that come out occasionally when someone once again notices that the same product (eg. a book purchased online) can be priced differently depending on which computer is accessing the site, or whether the user is logged on as a regular customer (no, the "established" customer is NOT the one who gets the "special deal").
> Just remember; every competent study ever done shows clearly that the customers (AKA "consumers") would much rather have the "lower prices" marked on the shelves and the products, instead of messing about with those plastic tracking tags. And of course it would be less work and trouble for the vendors, as well.
Or if they must have a loyalty card, why can't they create a universal one that they all can use, so you don't wind up with a dozen or more of them? I'm sure Google would be willing to give them a hand with that, and even handle the ads for them.
Or if they must have a loyalty card, why can't they create a universal one that they all can use, so you don't wind up with a dozen or more of them? I'm sure Google would be willing to give them a hand with that, and even handle the ads for them.
Aside: how do these new development over "Do Not Track" protocols affect "web-bugs" (eg. single-pixel, transparent gifs), etc?
I haven't looked closely into it, but I can't help wondering how much this is PR, than real action -- even leaving aside the question of how easily these measures can be (and apparently are) evaded by those who still want to know, regardless.
I haven't looked closely into it, but I can't help wondering how much this is PR, than real action -- even leaving aside the question of how easily these measures can be (and apparently are) evaded by those who still want to know, regardless.
Quoting:I haven't looked closely into it, but I can't help wondering how much this is PR, than real action -- even leaving aside the question of how easily these measures can be (and apparently are) evaded by those who still want to know, regardless.My understanding is that browsers' "Do Not Track" options are only a way for users to express their preference -- Web sites have the choice whether or not to honor that preference.
That's pretty useless IMO. That's like asking a murderous criminal to please be nice.
But maybe some murdererous criminals would choose to be nice -- if you said "please."
Remember, John Wayne Gacy made the kids laugh!
"Chicken Soup for the Serial Killer's Soul" -- the title of a book being read by a jailbird in a New Yorker magazine comic a few years ago.
At this point the only google service I look at is Google News. Is there a
better news source out there?
@Bob Robertson
It is the street I live on. Thanks.
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Indeed, that's one of the reasons I like Kmail. Full, nearly transparent, integration of GPG both MIME and in-line plain text.
ComBob,
I had one of those grocery cards, I just never found the time to fill out the form.