Microsoft: Coming to a Linux User Group near You? (Part One)
When you are wasting your time on your enemy, Engulfed in a fever of spite. Beyond your tunnel vision, reality fades, like shadows into the night ... --Pink Floyd Lost for Words (italics are mine) Before we make it to the "answers" section, I'd like to contrast LUGs, the Linux community and Microsoft as a corporation. It's always been our sense of community that I feel makes the Linux "movement" strong. You can find the community in various places and at the core of a lot of happenings. At events, web sites and especially Linux User Groups. While it doesn't survive comparisons to other communities in a lot of ways, the Linux community has survived the test of time. At the core of what makes a community (or a society, but that's a higher level discussion) is the civility, but mainly it's the conversation. It is the communication and the fact that there are some semblance of rules of civility in place. Things to keep the bad guys in check, things that allow the good guys to prevail. I truly believe that it is this scalable ability to converse that sustains our longevity. 20 years from now, we will be here because we're conversant. Any corporation can deliver operating system software. Look at all of the examples (and failures) in the past and present. The big question in the longevity equation is just how much say you as a user have in the process and product. Opportunities for real involvement abound when it comes to GNU/Linux. If you want to be a part of the support equation you can join a mailing list. If advocacy is your game there are numerous marketing opportunities, from presenting at your local LUG to educating the powers that be in the workplace. In the creation equation anyone with smarts and an Internet connection is welcome to join. This interaction makes Linux more than an operating system. It makes it a process, a community, and more. The conversation is the packet-level traffic of the Linux network. I think we're starting to see something now from Microsoft -- very small indicators, but they're there -- that they just might be finally on to it. When I say "it", I mean the real hidden secret -- and when I say hidden, I mean hidden in plain sight. We've always been about conversation, from day one. The Linux community as I've said in the past, wears its heart on its sleeve. Nothing or at least very little in the way of hidden agendas can be executed when all of your valuable communication takes place on public lists and web sites that everyone can access. The hidden secret is the value of our conversation and the fact that as a community we're fairly inclusive. Anyone can join. We talk to almost everyone. Now, I'm not arguing that people in the past haven't had the ability to contact people inside of Microsoft and get a response, but speaking from experience, I can tell you that access to people in the Linux community is entirely different. This isn't to discount some of what put Microsoft where it is today. They've been known to listen to their customers. For all my disgust with their monopolistic practices, they aren't where they are now because of sheer might. There are good people at Microsoft doing good things with software. Treated as a whole product and at the core of their weakness has been the mess that happens when it's all bolted together. There's the mess that occurred when dirty technological tricks were played with the aforementioned code-base to destroy competition. It's common opinion that these things prevented true innovation to spark and grow in the marketplace. Adding insult to injury, their reputation for lying in the marketplace helped take them from the folks that beat IBM at its own game to a company that's set the benchmark for the phrase "Mindless 900lb Corporate Gorilla". At least, that was the story till about 5 years ago, when suddenly everyone was talking about this "Linux" thing. There was a lot of talk about Linux "hype" while Microsoft was doing the real hyping. Over the past few years there has been a lot of talk about "myths" when in fact Microsoft has created their [1] own mythology. But in general, conversation with Microsoft is different. I can almost always converse with someone in the Linux community at just about any level. More importantly, I can always be sure that the response I receive is a "real" conversation -- not some attempt at obfuscation, marketing or worse some kind of attempt at swaying my opinion to a direction that runs contrary to reality. Like the question that begins this article, these statements about conversation aren't hypothetical. This may seem somewhat trivial to a lot of pre-Internet era executive types. I suspect that this is where Bill and Steve really missed the boat. Thanks to an intuitive sense for a lot of us the Linux community did not. See The ClueTrain Manifesto[2] for more on this subject, or if you're not that convinced that times are changing. The general feeling I get when I have had conversations with Microsoft employees has been one of extreme arrogance. The sheer monetary weight of the company to these people is the justification for all of their actions. Who needs to converse when (at least in your mind) you're high up in the castle looking down? One of the main points of ClueTrain is the idea that markets are about conversation -- that they've almost always been about it. Only with the advent of mass one-way marketing technology like TV, for example, did this change. With the advent of the Internet, the pendulum is swinging quickly back to the place where it was before, albeit under drastically different technological underpinnings. And so back to the LUGs and their importance. They are often organized via the Internet and by definition they have Linux as the core interest. LUGs, however, are not about technology. They are ultimately about honest to goodness human networking. At a LUG you as a member might learn something new about X windows for example, that you wouldn't necessarily catch surfing the web reading FAQs. You might make contact with a business interest or a job opportunity. You might just make a permanent member of the community out of someone who in the past was only marginally interested in this "Linux" thing. The possibilities are endless and the limits set by the imaginations of the members. Your conversations at a LUG will ultimately change the interface to the Linux community from web-based face to human one. Add to this the fact that we're typically not selling anything, and you've got some powerful marketing dynamics. This, at the core, changes us from a bunch of people looking at things, to a bunch of people participating in a process. I can tell you that this is the main dynamic missing from any of the Microsoft experiences I've had. From my experience, the people I've met at Microsoft events and LUGs have felt more like sporting fans than players. This feeling, until I was able to fully identify it, used to tug at the back of my mind. The difference between participation and being a spectator should ring a familiar bell at this point. It's the same difference between the conversation you might have on LXer.com, for example, and that of a TV commercial. Is Microsoft changing? I can tell you I see small hints here -- sparks that could be indicative of a catching flame, or blown out by the next stupid marketing campaign. For years they have treated the Linux community as an enemy. When one of their people shows up at an event or LUG, asking to present, you have to wonder if maybe somewhere there's a change in their method of conversation -- or simply talk of change. Or even if it's some kind of pointless attempt at infiltration. Let's end this at the questions asked at the beginning of the article: Say a Linux vendor shows up at your LUG, wishing to show off the latest distribution -- proprietary extensions and all. What if an embedded Linux/*BSD vendor wants to show off their product? Where do you draw the line between what is at its highest potential an event centered on conversation, to the other end of the spectrum where your LUG turns into a human infomercial? And just what do you do about a Microsoft employee, wishing to present a topic? I have my own reservations and opinions here, but I'd be extremely interested in hearing your opinions first. I'll try my best to summarize them in the followup to this article next week. After all, at the core, I truly do believe that our most powerful weapon is conversation itself. Paul Ferris has been a Linux community member for over a decade. He spent several years supporting Linux via Internet Relay Chat on openprojects.net. Over the years he's presented at schools and LUGs on a wide variety of topics. He was one of the founding members of the Canton Linux Enthusiasts. He has been writing (and conversing) about Linux since 1998 in various publications. Unlike faceless corporations, you can feel free to talk with him, anytime. [1]Microsoft, at arguably their worst time in history when it comes to security, has been making a lot of noise about how secure they really are. Here are some laughable examples:
[2]The ClueTrain Manifesto: The End of Business As Usual. Amazon.com carries it. This is highly recommended reading. Doc Searls of Linux Journal fame is one of the authors, by the way. The Linux Community: Wear Your Hearts On Your Sleeves. Pink Floyd's "The Division Bell" is a album about communication. This is a link to the full lyrics for Lost for Words. Warning: Use of the F-word. |
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Comments (38)
Whose LUG?
There are and have been Apple/macintosh User Groups. There are Linux User Groups.
I have never heard of MSFT/Windows user groups.
Anyone know of any?
First, it would probably have a PowerPoint presentation. In my opinion, Tufte is an optimist when it comes to PowerPoint. If you can't Dazzle the with Brilliance, or Baffle them with Baloney, Bore them to stupidity with PowerPoint.
Second, MSFT has so much money to waste on PR that you'd probably just get some lying, soul-less Wag-Ed demon. They're just trying to infiltrate yet another forum.
Third, what would an MSFT liar I mean PR person have to say that would interest me? I want to dance on their corporate corpse, not put up with the warts on their OS or work around the bugs in their user interface.
I could go on, but profanity-less prose fails me.
But there would have to be conditions:
1. 15 minute presentation, max. No sense letting them go droning on for hours.
2. 30 minute Q & A, min. They need feedback.
3. We would have to set up a stage with one of those "chicken wire" barriers, as seen in Blues Brothers, for the protection from flying objects and the safety of all.
It will interfere with my paintball gun. Of course carring Paintball guns get noticed. So I developed a linux powered automatic, with 350 degree motion left right and 30 degree up down motions. I have a web cam setup on the back hooked into a small low powered scope(just for AIM), The web cam streams to a server for viewing. For controls though are through ssh keyboard commands. Maybe one day i will create an Ncurses interface.
Okay the above doesn't yet exist but there is no reason why not. a mini-itx board running linux for controls. The hard part would be setting up motor controls.
>Anyone know of any?
I think most of them disappeared when the only solution to any problem was to reboot.
Locking them out is silly--if they are real people that are going to demonstrate real technology, it would likely be a good thing to learn about. The Q&A period is the real value though.
Good article. I'll look forward to the second part.
-- Wishing you well.
I think the original question is mis-stated anyway. I think it should be slightly rephrased:
"Can we get the ducking stool set up in time for the Microsoft presenter?"
Asking the correct question puts it all into the correct perspective.
Um isn't that Dunking Stool?
Besides paintball guns cause more pain, and they leave marks.
http://www.big-boys.com/articles/peuquinbully.html
You can determine which one is MSFT. Maybe
I think I love you.
BUT I WANNNA KNOOOOW FOR SURRRRE
LUG ≠ Commercial
-Tool
We've had em at NTLUG
On a more contemporary note... while not a Microsoft presentation, we did have the Mono guys out for a presentation. Now, many, many of the folks in Mono are from a Microsoft background, HOWEVER, most are not 0wn3d by Microsoft and actually believe that Mono will probably be forced (by Microsoft) to divorce and become something greater than .Net. They really, really believe that Mono is the future of cross platform distributed computing and NOT .Net. I highly recommend having the Mono folks out to your LUGs when possible. Just don't look at Mono as being .Net for Linux... view as the open source REPLACEMENT for .Net, be it on Windows or *ix.
At the end of the Mono presentation, I gave away a Java SW Development book as a door prize... made my day!
Depends on who wants to talk...
Microsofties (some of them, at least) are people, too!! Some of them are OK, in a strange glassy-eyed kind of way.
One more thing: The definition of a Microsoftie can be a little tricky.
Is it just the "real" folks up at Redmond and assorted official Redmond satellites, or do you include assorted VARs and other folks who are devoted to MS ware because it has helped them to make a pretty penny?
Some of the "real" folks can be interesting if they are techies instead of marketing folks, because Microsoft really does hire some talented people.
More interesting and more useful, however, are the sort of unofficial quasi-softies.
These are the folks who actually spread the gospel to the world, selling solutions to people, loading software onto boxes and writing custom programs.
These folks receive a lot of love from Microsoft, one reason they tend to be loyal. But they're also under pressure and very vulnerable. They certainly are aware of Linux -- even if they pooh-pooh it to your face. I know that I've made a few dollars doing work for Microsoft VARs who didn't have Linux resources but had to accept a Linux component in order to snag a big Windows contract.
Besides -- There are some topics that might interest both sides of the divide:
Firefox, MySQL, OpenOffice, .Net/Mono, apache, etc...
You never know: it could even be fun.
-Tool
dino, the Tool just complimented you...
[ FeriCyde faints ]
On your point, I'm very aware that there are actual humans working for the Borg (that was a joke in case you missed it) and in the VAR space big time. On rare occasion, I've met them locally. The article is about actual MS employees attempting conversation with us. Maybe I wandered too much verbally... Maybe it's because Lawyers are bad at reading between the lines... Maybe you just wanted to insult me as usual...
I vote for the last one -- it fits more with my expectations!
PS: Happy valentines day Tool and 'Trac'd one.
Seriously though, you must be equating yourself to Species 8472 if you weren't assimilated when you encountered the borg (http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/library/aliens/article...)!
No wonder I forgot it was valentine's day, heheh...
-Tool
Smith, I missed the fact that you're against American corporations who are simply trying to make an honest buck -- I thought I knew you fairly well in the capitalist area, but it's obvious with a quote like the above that you'd wish a local Cleveland company ill will and less in the way of revenues -- typical behavior for someone who's so against simple free-market ideals and the romantic ideals that they support.
You unromantic communist hackers are all alike. You crouch in the dust of your communes, nothing but the smell of insense and the sound of commie chanting to guide your way. You thought you'd just slip one by the sharp eyes of the FeriCyde by complimenting Dinotrac (thought you'd pull the old DinoBait and switch, didn't you?!?). Well I'm onto you now. I see how you operate -- you thought you were a sharp tool, but I'm sharper.
Soon, hoards of jack-booted thugs will knock down the doors of your local hang-out, cart off the boxes of commie-spreading fliers and put you and your kind where you belong -- to work in the local prison, making greeting cards and license plates.
Then (THEN!) we'll see if you change you mind about good old American capitalism and the romantic Ideals of buying pounds of chocolate and flowers.
By the way, I did my share for the local Hallmark store -- I recommend it, it's cathartic.
--FeriCyde
-Tool
P.S. You need a new shrink - the one you're using now clearly isn't helping :-0
Had to duck out for happy duty.
Valentine's day is also my middle daughter's birthday. She and a friend went with the Mrs. Trac to a kiddie makeover join to be trimmed and glittered and made to fell special, after which we all went out for dinner.
Sometimes, even Free Software is not the most important thing in the world.
I will take issue with the suggestion that some of Microsoft's technical employees are good. When a person aids and abets the harmful deceit of others for profit, then great intellectual aerobics must be endeavored to find goodness in it. If they are indeed technically savvy, then they should already know with greatest certainty the wrongfulness of the process which they willingly participate. So, I contend that serious rationalization is required to consider them good; unless it is qualified with "good businessmen" -- which is frequently an oxymoron.
When Microsoft reaches out to us, it should be seen as an opportunity to change their corporate culture instead of a conflict with "rules of engagement". We know that they hope influence works in our direction; but using their weapons against them while garnering respect is an effective strategy. The real battle is a "hearts and minds" psychological battle. They know, and history tells us, that decisions will not be made on the basis of technical merit. In fact, people make purchases the overwhelming majority of the time based merely on what "feels" right -- no critical thought is even attempted. It is a lesson well overdue for us to learn.
As Microsoft does:
"Keep you friends close... and your enemies closer".
The suits at Microsoft have much to learn about community and technology from us. We have much to learn about Marketing from them. A righteous and true man has nothing to fear from the devil.
If Microsoft is not really anybody's enemy, then why can't it's technical employees be good?
Remember, not everybody considers proprietary software to be evil. I certainly don't.
Free software is preferable, but it doesn't fill every need and likely never will.
Will you have the fortitude to sit through a long, long PowerPoint presentation, one which will make you believe that Edward Tufte is an optimist?
Because that's what an MSFT presentation will consist of.
If a MS employee requested to give a presentation at my LUG, I would welcome him or her- as long as the subject is Linux. Especially migrating away from windows to Linux.
Religious zeal is a positive force, but it is a corrupt perversion when it becomes rapid fanaticism -- when it is political polarization. Yes, I fully understand why they are hated, but the difference is: I am strong enough to view the situation rationally without giving into hate. In fact, I scarcely give them little attention anymore since there are far more serious problems that face all of us than this one corporation.
Since we speak of the topic of evil, let me add this. Is love or hate most likely to influence an opponent in the way we desire? If we do not to influence our opponent, then we cannot win. Like I was taught in the martial arts, you should first beat their spirit if possible -- weaken their courage and moral and move in unexpected ways. In a real fight, only one walks away, and there is never a winner. The victory is shallow at best, with damage on both sides. We have only emboldened them. What has that accomplished? Frankly, you folks have the very same attitudes as Microsoft employees. I'm disappointed in you. Don't we like to believe we are better, and smarter? How is wanting Bill's head on a platter any different from their malicious will toward competitors? It isn't.
Dean, you've always been one of strong opinions, but I'll have to hold my ground on this. The attitudes here only further my case. I was not really contradictory. You merely had trouble yourself, and therefore read me only superficially.
I realize this will tick some people off, but political appeasement is quite low in my proirities. As Ferris recently noted: "The truth will set you free, but first it will probably piss you off". Clear your minds Jedi. The dark side clouds everything.
Check out the other thread and you will note that Paul's responses were thanks for the views, which were exactly what he was seeking.
Remember too that his experiences being pro Linux were perceived to be anti MS and he suffered in isolation while trying to be ethical. Few of us had to undergo similar experiences.
I think the only thing we really disagreed on was whether a Microsoft techie could be good.
I think it's entirely possible.
I took you to say the opposite, but I may have misread
Now imagine one of us giving a presentation to a Microsoft-hosted meeting. It always helps the insight to try a role reversal. How easy would it be to not make any statements (or give any answers) which, however nicely couched, spoke against Microsoft or their products or practices?
How about the questions?
1. "In general, how do you react to outsiders that offer to present at your Linux User Group (LUG)?"
With enthusiasm. Our LUG has several members who present regularly, and many others who have presented. We often cast about the group for topics to present but we often have more topics than presenters. A topic without a presenter does not make for a memorable meeting.
2. "What about commercial interests presenting to your LUG?"
Most of our members present without mention of their day jobs. But what about somebody that want to talk about their company?
Okay. It _is_ a Linux topic, right? If it is on topic then a commercial perspective might make a nice change from our typical presentations (typically they lean towards the technical side of the scale). So example topics might be "IBM Presents:Things we've learned deploying Linux on the desktop in our enterprise." That would be great. "IBM Presents: Our new line of heavy iron." Hmm, not really focused enough, but we would ask enough Linux implementation questions to get value from it.
3. "What would you do if a Microsoft employee showed up at your LUG?"
Show up? Like, "sit politely and listen?" How would we even know? At that point , they are just another new attendee. I hope they would feel as welcomed as any other new attendee.
4. "If you allowed a Microsoft employee to present, just what kind of topics would you allow?
It would have to be on topic. "How to build and package software created with proprietary tools so that they may be licensed with the GPL" or "client configuration tips and tricks to keep users happy on samba" would both be worth hearing. "How to 'get the facts,'" or "why you should drop Linux and use our stuff" would not be welcome.
This is exactly the kind of feedback needed.
--FeriCyde
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Whether we're talking about a proprietary Linux vendor, Microsoft or anybody else, one question must first be answered: What do you mean by "my" LUG?
If we are talking about a LUG that has a board (for lack of a better word) it would be up to the board. They should discuss it first and come to a consensus. If we are talking about a LUG that is a loose affiliation of members, it should be up to the members. If we are actually talking about "MY" LUG, I would allow everybody but MS. Sounds childish but, in the words of John Kennedy, "it's my ball".
One thing that could be fun would be to allow MS to present and let all the particularly loud-mouthed, assholian LUG members know ahead of time that MS will be there.
Stop reading for a moment, sit back and imagine that.
I'll wait.
Anyway, it's not like there is a fairness issue here. Nobody is ENTITLED to be at a LUG meeting. Who gets in or doesn't is up to those who are in charge of the LUG.