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Open source on Windows, the next big thing?
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Comments (21)
Half-way
I'm failing to see how a crappy compromise where you're still stuck with windoze could ever be called "the next big thing" -
IMHO of course
IMHO of course
@petmark: Why don't you try ReactOS (http://www.reactos.org/xhtml/en/index.html), a Free (with capital F) WinXP implementation. Currently still alpha but already it runs quite a bit of software
Half-Free is better than No-Free. Baby steps, grasshoppers. :)
>crappy compromise
I must have missed the "crappy" part.
I dislike Windows. Just don't like it. I've been using Linux/KDE for so long, that Windows never feels right.
That would make Windows with Free software a crappy compromise for me.
For somebody who likes Windows, or has a need for it, not so crappy.
I must have missed the "crappy" part.
I dislike Windows. Just don't like it. I've been using Linux/KDE for so long, that Windows never feels right.
That would make Windows with Free software a crappy compromise for me.
For somebody who likes Windows, or has a need for it, not so crappy.
Linux gets a better chance when it's possible to show people that they are already using the applications that they would be using on Linux.
Keep in mind that the OS really isn't something I want users worrying about. I don't even want them to care! It's all about applications and preinstallation.
Keep in mind that the OS really isn't something I want users worrying about. I don't even want them to care! It's all about applications and preinstallation.
Plus I don't think it's very helpful to crab at people for using Free Software just because they don't use enough of it, or use the wrong kinds, or whatever. Positive reinforcement is always better.
tc -
Seriously.
Tends to to invite a response of "Does ANYTHING make you people happy?" instead of, "Cool! What next?".
Seriously.
Tends to to invite a response of "Does ANYTHING make you people happy?" instead of, "Cool! What next?".
That's an actual 'Ook... it's your choice. But runs faster??? Give me a break, that's just wrong.
Am I misunderstanding the posts, are am I hearing people say that they are perfectly content for the whole open source culture to be reduced to a cheap source of applications for microsoft?
Pardon me if I don't do cartwheels and jump for joy - bad back, you know...
Pardon me if I don't do cartwheels and jump for joy - bad back, you know...
herzeleid -
You are absolutely misunderstanding the posts.
You are hearing people say that we want more free software in this world, and more people using it. Deriding people for dipping their toe in the water to see how it feels is not a way to get there.
You are absolutely misunderstanding the posts.
You are hearing people say that we want more free software in this world, and more people using it. Deriding people for dipping their toe in the water to see how it feels is not a way to get there.
boborooster enters:
IMO, agree with tuxchick2 and dinotrac myself. Half-way is better than No-Way, "Half-Free is better than No-Free", ...etc.
Swimming. From what many of us see in children, you start each toddler learning how to swim by "dipping their toe in the water to see how it feels". Then come those body and hand floats, then going into the shallow end of pools to wade and stay afloat, then learn arm-movements w/ breathing, ... etc. You toss a toddler into the deep-end you only succeed in 1) creating a "sink, swim, or be saved" situation (unfortunately, sometimes fatal in real-life), and more important even if the toddler is saved, 2) the toddler develops a negative attitude towards swimming.
ISTM (it seems to me) that in this case, doing OSS apps on Windows is comparable to the school-age child who is just learning the basic swim strokes -- the "half-way" -- and is not quite ready for the deep-end yet. The "breathing and basic steps" for swimming would be the user who is using Windows and those OSS apps as petmark listed. Again, ISTM that the presence of half-way point OSS-apps act as a positive reinforcement rather than as a "cheap source of applications for microsoft". :-)
IMO, agree with tuxchick2 and dinotrac myself. Half-way is better than No-Way, "Half-Free is better than No-Free", ...etc.
Swimming. From what many of us see in children, you start each toddler learning how to swim by "dipping their toe in the water to see how it feels". Then come those body and hand floats, then going into the shallow end of pools to wade and stay afloat, then learn arm-movements w/ breathing, ... etc. You toss a toddler into the deep-end you only succeed in 1) creating a "sink, swim, or be saved" situation (unfortunately, sometimes fatal in real-life), and more important even if the toddler is saved, 2) the toddler develops a negative attitude towards swimming.
ISTM (it seems to me) that in this case, doing OSS apps on Windows is comparable to the school-age child who is just learning the basic swim strokes -- the "half-way" -- and is not quite ready for the deep-end yet. The "breathing and basic steps" for swimming would be the user who is using Windows and those OSS apps as petmark listed. Again, ISTM that the presence of half-way point OSS-apps act as a positive reinforcement rather than as a "cheap source of applications for microsoft". :-)
What dino and bob and bobo said.
Everyone who migrates from windoze to Linux or other Free software does so in stages. First there was dual-booting, thanks to LILO and Grub, and no thanks to winduhs. Then came LiveCDs, thanks to Peter Anvin who made the first one, and his successors Knoppix and now The Whole Entire FOSS World. Again, something alien to the closed proprietary world. Some kind of innovation, that!
Now we have free-of-cost VMWare and Xen for folks who want to run multiple operating systems at the same time, and an increasing number of Free applications for Winderz. This is a good thing. Criticizing people is like, duh, a really stupid thing to do. If your goal is to win users over to Free Software, be nice to them. Sometimes I think this hyper-critical crap is a subtle form of trolling, designed to drive potential new FOSS users away.
I gave Debian a pass for years because Debian users were so extremely obnoxious. The entire Debian community is mentally ill, in my nearly humble opinion, but somehow they turn out a good distribution. Just think how marvelous it would be if they didn't expend so much energy driving away sane people.
Everyone who migrates from windoze to Linux or other Free software does so in stages. First there was dual-booting, thanks to LILO and Grub, and no thanks to winduhs. Then came LiveCDs, thanks to Peter Anvin who made the first one, and his successors Knoppix and now The Whole Entire FOSS World. Again, something alien to the closed proprietary world. Some kind of innovation, that!
Now we have free-of-cost VMWare and Xen for folks who want to run multiple operating systems at the same time, and an increasing number of Free applications for Winderz. This is a good thing. Criticizing people is like, duh, a really stupid thing to do. If your goal is to win users over to Free Software, be nice to them. Sometimes I think this hyper-critical crap is a subtle form of trolling, designed to drive potential new FOSS users away.
I gave Debian a pass for years because Debian users were so extremely obnoxious. The entire Debian community is mentally ill, in my nearly humble opinion, but somehow they turn out a good distribution. Just think how marvelous it would be if they didn't expend so much energy driving away sane people.
> I gave Debian a pass for years because Debian users were so extremely obnoxious. The entire Debian community is mentally ill, in my nearly humble opinion, but somehow they turn out a good distribution. Just think how marvelous it would be if they didn't expend so much energy driving away sane people.
Thanks your Fabulous Holiness... Us crazies appreciate that blanket proclamation ;-) .
Thanks your Fabulous Holiness... Us crazies appreciate that blanket proclamation ;-) .
Wow. I'm obnoxious. I guess the Windows users in my family will agree, I've been telling them about Linux for years.
Ok, seriously, I received an email from my 70 year old stepmother. It was a chain-letter about "Don't Open The PPS File Called 'I Love You', It Will Erase Your Hard Drive" or anyway something to that effect. I'm sure you've seen enough of them to fill in the blanks yourself.
What I told her was that no, you're not going to receive such a PPS file. Those emails have been forwarded around for years, nearly a decade now, and they're the viruses.
But then I made sure to tell her that using Microsoft Office is what opens the door to being attacked by such PPS, and DOC, viruses that do exist. I told her that using OpenOffice would solve that problem, because OpenOffice won't execute the macro programs in the files by default like MS does.
She said she would just LOVE to get a copy of OpenOffice, so I put it and FireFox on a CD and mailed it to her.
No, she's not going to install Linux. Ever. What she has works for her. But now she has one more reason to listen when people talk about alternatives.
My mother has a laptop with WinXP on it. She's told me that I can put Linux on her next PC. So I told her, why not let this be your next PC? When she's tired of the idiocies of XP, I'll put Linux on the box (Debian Stable, just to be obnoxious) and give her a Whole New Machine.
And then I'll make sure she knows how to use the box for those things she usually does, and that those things work. The OS needs to be otherwise invisible to her. Printing is going to suck, unfortunately, compared to Windows, but that's not something I can control.
Ok, seriously, I received an email from my 70 year old stepmother. It was a chain-letter about "Don't Open The PPS File Called 'I Love You', It Will Erase Your Hard Drive" or anyway something to that effect. I'm sure you've seen enough of them to fill in the blanks yourself.
What I told her was that no, you're not going to receive such a PPS file. Those emails have been forwarded around for years, nearly a decade now, and they're the viruses.
But then I made sure to tell her that using Microsoft Office is what opens the door to being attacked by such PPS, and DOC, viruses that do exist. I told her that using OpenOffice would solve that problem, because OpenOffice won't execute the macro programs in the files by default like MS does.
She said she would just LOVE to get a copy of OpenOffice, so I put it and FireFox on a CD and mailed it to her.
No, she's not going to install Linux. Ever. What she has works for her. But now she has one more reason to listen when people talk about alternatives.
My mother has a laptop with WinXP on it. She's told me that I can put Linux on her next PC. So I told her, why not let this be your next PC? When she's tired of the idiocies of XP, I'll put Linux on the box (Debian Stable, just to be obnoxious) and give her a Whole New Machine.
And then I'll make sure she knows how to use the box for those things she usually does, and that those things work. The OS needs to be otherwise invisible to her. Printing is going to suck, unfortunately, compared to Windows, but that's not something I can control.
jimf, sorry, I should have acknowledged the few hardy and and sane Debian devs. :) I know it's a minority of dorks making a disproportionate amount of noise, just like any other community. I wish the Debian leaders would actually kick out the worst offenders, instead of bleating "free speech" and "we don't want to be cops", because the troublemakers harm the whole organization. exhibit A: the infamous asuffield, who hasn't done a lick of work in years, but pollutes practically every Debian list there is. I'm sure you know the others, it's the same old crew that never goes away. They do a lot of damage, and telling people to just suck it up and take it doesn't work.
> it's the same old crew that never goes away.
Yeah, we pretty much ignore and work around them. Really, pretty much all of the guys I deal with now are very helpful and polite.
Yeah, we pretty much ignore and work around them. Really, pretty much all of the guys I deal with now are very helpful and polite.
>Really, pretty much all of the guys I deal with now are very helpful and polite.
Take after you, do they, jimf?
;0)
Take after you, do they, jimf?
;0)
We try Dino ;-)
quote of the day
""It felt a little risky" to move to J2EE from a Visual Basic 6 environment," Lu said."
That's like saying "It felt a little risky replacing the Yugo with a real car." But hey, that's just how I see it. :)
That's like saying "It felt a little risky replacing the Yugo with a real car." But hey, that's just how I see it. :)
Some of my favorite Java lines:
Write once, run everywhere. Write once, test everywhere. Write once, debug everywhere.
and finally...
Write once, run scared!!
Write once, run everywhere. Write once, test everywhere. Write once, debug everywhere.
and finally...
Write once, run scared!!
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One more example. MP3 vs OGG on Podcasts. The MP3 gets the show notes, the OGG does not.
That's just my opinion.