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Some Facts about openSUSE and Distrowatch Figures - A Correction
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Comments (101)
81 earlier comments in the full thread.
Dino, I have to agree with you on that point. We do not live in a safe world. ;-)
> Vultures rush into any power vacuum
A valid point.
A valid point.
We need an American FFII for patents in addition to DefectiveByDesign for DRM.
Quoting:The only safe Ecosystem is one without Corporations ;-)Corporations are essential, they create capital for large projects, they employ people, corporation can cooperate according to well established laws. BAD Corporations should be eliminated in accordance with the laws. The issue is making sure the established laws are good, and if not, they need to be changed. Worse yet is not enforcing the laws (Like the case of MS abusing its monopoly power) and those who are responsible but don't enforce the good law should be removed.
We need Consumer Activist Groups. Leaving Supply and Demand alone to control the market is no longer working and no longer an option. The FOSS community with GPL as a law is one of them.
Quoting:The issue is making sure the established laws are good
May I add: The biggest problem is the worst established laws are issued by companies. DMCA is just an example.
>worst established laws are issued by companies.
The worst established laws are issued by lawmakers. It's easy to rail at special interests and fat cats, but voters have an obligation to pay attention and express their displeasure, preferably at the ballot box.
Lawmakers who think we aren't paying attention don't care what we think. Voters who don't care, get what they deserver.
In the end, politicians care about power. They love it. They lust for it. They love its perks.
But -
They don't want to lose it.
The worst established laws are issued by lawmakers. It's easy to rail at special interests and fat cats, but voters have an obligation to pay attention and express their displeasure, preferably at the ballot box.
Lawmakers who think we aren't paying attention don't care what we think. Voters who don't care, get what they deserver.
In the end, politicians care about power. They love it. They lust for it. They love its perks.
But -
They don't want to lose it.
Quoting:Vultures rush into any power vacuumFOSS/GPL doesn't leave a power vacuum, it levels the fields so all can compete on same or equal footings. That is what scares MS so much.
I don't hate MS, I just despise them too much and you can't blame me a bit.
> Lawmakers who think we aren't paying attention don't care what we think.
Lawmakers who think you won't donate to their re-election campaign also don't care what you think, whether you're paying attention or not. Or at least that's my experience.
Lawmakers who think you won't donate to their re-election campaign also don't care what you think, whether you're paying attention or not. Or at least that's my experience.
Quoting:Lawmakers who think you won't donate to their re-election campaign also don't care what you thinkwhen you present your opinion to them, they will definitely care, even a single vote becomes important. Collective opinions in organized groups have the most influence. Companies are collective opinions, so is FOSS. Unfortunately, we haven't been active enough. May be this is what could be the approach we need to take to exsert influence on local and federal governments. Public organizations (schools and what have you) are also good candidates.
> even a single vote becomes important.
Not everywhere Abe, not everywhere. In some states having the right letter after your name is all that matters.
Not everywhere Abe, not everywhere. In some states having the right letter after your name is all that matters.
Abe -
FOr all the corrupting influences and all of the bad things that happen, the voters are what matters.
One reason that things are so crappy now is that lawmakers don't think we're paying attention.
In the US, the civil rights movement of the 40s-60s is a great model for the power of well-issued votes.
At a time when blacks were maybe 10-12% of the vote, they got tremendous legislative clout by understanding the power of coalition politics and delivering a cohesive block of voters who could be identified by key issues on which the general population was more or less evenly split. In that case, even a 5% block can wield enormous power.
FOr all the corrupting influences and all of the bad things that happen, the voters are what matters.
One reason that things are so crappy now is that lawmakers don't think we're paying attention.
In the US, the civil rights movement of the 40s-60s is a great model for the power of well-issued votes.
At a time when blacks were maybe 10-12% of the vote, they got tremendous legislative clout by understanding the power of coalition politics and delivering a cohesive block of voters who could be identified by key issues on which the general population was more or less evenly split. In that case, even a 5% block can wield enormous power.
I certainly agree.
Then again, an organization like OSDL could have been very appropriate, but unfortunately they are not as strong as they used to be. Or may be they didn't think it was appropriate for them to take on the responsibility of leveraging FOSS's interest since its members were reps from various companies who mostly were in favor of patents and more concerned about their companies' interests. I wonder what the LUGs are doing in that respect? I can't tell since I am not a participant of any although I should be.
Like you said in a previous post of yours about FOSS's advances and progress . FOSS should have proliferated more and I really don't understand why governments are not pursuing FOSS more than they have so far. I am currently disappointed.
Then again, an organization like OSDL could have been very appropriate, but unfortunately they are not as strong as they used to be. Or may be they didn't think it was appropriate for them to take on the responsibility of leveraging FOSS's interest since its members were reps from various companies who mostly were in favor of patents and more concerned about their companies' interests. I wonder what the LUGs are doing in that respect? I can't tell since I am not a participant of any although I should be.
Like you said in a previous post of yours about FOSS's advances and progress . FOSS should have proliferated more and I really don't understand why governments are not pursuing FOSS more than they have so far. I am currently disappointed.
> FOr all the corrupting influences and all of the bad things that happen, the voters are what matters.
Certainly true, but way overly simplistic. The bad guys are far better organized, prepared, and equipped these days. Not that I'm gonna give up, but, I have limited expectations since I'm to old for a full on revolution ;-).
Certainly true, but way overly simplistic. The bad guys are far better organized, prepared, and equipped these days. Not that I'm gonna give up, but, I have limited expectations since I'm to old for a full on revolution ;-).
>The bad guys are far better organized, prepared, and equipped these days.
And who's fault is that?
It doesn't take as much organization and equipment as you might think. It does take caring and being willing to talk about things with an ear to those around you. That last, by the way, is an area where FOSS folks tend to fail miserably.
You need only look down any number of discussion threads to see references to sheeple, lemmings, lazy users, yada yada yada yada.
No wonder we don't get traction! People think we're nuts and we're not going to win them over by calling them names.
And who's fault is that?
It doesn't take as much organization and equipment as you might think. It does take caring and being willing to talk about things with an ear to those around you. That last, by the way, is an area where FOSS folks tend to fail miserably.
You need only look down any number of discussion threads to see references to sheeple, lemmings, lazy users, yada yada yada yada.
No wonder we don't get traction! People think we're nuts and we're not going to win them over by calling them names.
> And who's fault is that?
Unfortunately, blame is irrelevant.
You've worked with Chicago politics Dino. Few Citizens are involved, or aware of issues. Fewer still even care. It's not even a matter of 'winning them over'. Face the facts, overall, voters are simple to manipulate.
Unfortunately, blame is irrelevant.
You've worked with Chicago politics Dino. Few Citizens are involved, or aware of issues. Fewer still even care. It's not even a matter of 'winning them over'. Face the facts, overall, voters are simple to manipulate.
Well, I didn't want to start a rant on US democracy, but let me say this:
If somebody would ask me, who has more influence in the US, the companies or the voters, I would know my answer. If you know think-tanks and where their money comes from, and the work they do, you don't have to know more.
Just visit ExxonSecrets.org, search for the graph representing the links between Exxon and the Bush administration, and things become clear. Even then, Exxon is only one example.
If somebody would ask me, who has more influence in the US, the companies or the voters, I would know my answer. If you know think-tanks and where their money comes from, and the work they do, you don't have to know more.
Just visit ExxonSecrets.org, search for the graph representing the links between Exxon and the Bush administration, and things become clear. Even then, Exxon is only one example.
>Just visit ExxonSecrets.org, search for the graph representing the links between Exxon and the Bush administration, and things become clear. Even then, Exxon is only one example.
And then wander over to the Drudge Report and read about what Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has planned or the assorted Democrats who now control the Senate, etc.
Doesn't sound like Exxon had enough clout to keep the Republicans in control, does it?
And then wander over to the Drudge Report and read about what Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has planned or the assorted Democrats who now control the Senate, etc.
Doesn't sound like Exxon had enough clout to keep the Republicans in control, does it?
That's just an example of what's happening all over the place everyday, and it will continue for the coming time I'm afraid. The real people with influence are from defence / military business as far as I know.
>The real people with influence are from defence / military business as far as I know.
Methinks those folks just took a licking, too.
Methinks those folks just took a licking, too.
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There is no safe Ecosystem. Vultures rush into any power vacuum, whether they be corporations, politicians, or the military.