- Site menu:
- Latest Discussions
- Latest Newswire
- Archives
- Submit Story
- Story HOWTO
- Syndicate
- E-mail Alerts
Dell’s not really serious about Linux
|
|
|
Comments (17)
Garbage
I agree. It would seem that if Dell offered the system in a solid gold case for $1, this guy would complain about the choice of color.
I think it should be noted that Dell has been quite successful on the server front in working with hardware manufacturers to open up. When Dell started selling Linux servers they needed closed drivers. Not anymore today. Sure, that's not just Dell's work but it did happen.
We're talking about only two or three pieces of hardware here .
1) The modem. My guess is that in the next generation, Dell will have it replaced by a modem with free drivers. 2) The wireless modem. Only the microcode firmware isn't free so that ain't bad. There are other cards out there so Dell might switch in the next generation. 3) Video. Intel is already free. If last week's message about ATI is correct then hopefully within a year we will have free ATI 3D drivers. If that happens I don't think Nvidia will be far behind. This is the only part where Dell really needs to work with the vendors.
We're talking about only two or three pieces of hardware here .
1) The modem. My guess is that in the next generation, Dell will have it replaced by a modem with free drivers. 2) The wireless modem. Only the microcode firmware isn't free so that ain't bad. There are other cards out there so Dell might switch in the next generation. 3) Video. Intel is already free. If last week's message about ATI is correct then hopefully within a year we will have free ATI 3D drivers. If that happens I don't think Nvidia will be far behind. This is the only part where Dell really needs to work with the vendors.
> Only the microcode firmware isn't free so that ain't bad.
IIRC, Intel will be changing that as well.
IIRC, Intel will be changing that as well.
> 1) The modem. My guess is that in the next generation, Dell will have it replaced by a modem with
> free drivers.
How many people even care about modems anymore? I haven't actually used one in years... It would be great if Dell got the chip vendor to release specs or a driver for that modem, or switched to a chip that was supported, but if they don't I can't see that this will be a big issue for very many people.
The wireless card is a bigger deal because I think most people will want to use it, but its more of an inconvenience than anything because I think few care that the firmware isn't completely free. And if worst comes to worst, in today's Fry's ad (Austin, TX) a freely supported (the excellent madwifi drivers) PCMCIA 802.11g card made by Airlink101+ (Atheros chipset) is on sale for $8.99 with no rebate required.
Also most people don't even care about the ATI and nVidia drivers being proprietary, and it is dirt simple if you follow the directions on the Ubuntu wiki to install them. If ATI is opened up by AMD that is great... hopefully they will fix (or let the community) the performance and stability issues. Hopefully as you mention, Dell will encourage nVidia to follow suit.
I do wish that Dell would at least offer to pre-install the proprietary ATI and/or nVidia drivers and the Intel firmware if people want them (offer an "only free" and a "mostly free" image option), but I can understand given the logistics of building large quantities of systems why they might not want to.
How many people even care about modems anymore? I haven't actually used one in years... It would be great if Dell got the chip vendor to release specs or a driver for that modem, or switched to a chip that was supported, but if they don't I can't see that this will be a big issue for very many people.
The wireless card is a bigger deal because I think most people will want to use it, but its more of an inconvenience than anything because I think few care that the firmware isn't completely free. And if worst comes to worst, in today's Fry's ad (Austin, TX) a freely supported (the excellent madwifi drivers) PCMCIA 802.11g card made by Airlink101+ (Atheros chipset) is on sale for $8.99 with no rebate required.
Also most people don't even care about the ATI and nVidia drivers being proprietary, and it is dirt simple if you follow the directions on the Ubuntu wiki to install them. If ATI is opened up by AMD that is great... hopefully they will fix (or let the community) the performance and stability issues. Hopefully as you mention, Dell will encourage nVidia to follow suit.
I do wish that Dell would at least offer to pre-install the proprietary ATI and/or nVidia drivers and the Intel firmware if people want them (offer an "only free" and a "mostly free" image option), but I can understand given the logistics of building large quantities of systems why they might not want to.
> Also most people don't even care about the ATI and nVidia drivers being proprietary, and it is dirt simple if you follow the directions on the Ubuntu wiki to install them.
Most people using ATI or NVidia cards probably don't care about free software. If they did they wouldn't be using those cards. I don't know of any reputable study that showed most Linux users don't care about software freedom.
You're completely missing an important part of the action here. The directions on the Ubuntu wiki are there for the Ubuntu distribution. Not all Linux users use Ubuntu.
Most people using ATI or NVidia cards probably don't care about free software. If they did they wouldn't be using those cards. I don't know of any reputable study that showed most Linux users don't care about software freedom.
You're completely missing an important part of the action here. The directions on the Ubuntu wiki are there for the Ubuntu distribution. Not all Linux users use Ubuntu.
You're completely missing an important part of the action here. The directions on the Ubuntu wiki are there for the Ubuntu distribution. Not all Linux users use Ubuntu.
No...I think what was, or should be implied here is that to many, Ubuntu IS Linux. I work now as a manager in a division that provides Tech Support to Server administrators. The "company email" is web based and while most people in the shop are windows oriented, many are either newly converted over to Linux or are toying with it now. There is much talk in the emails about Ubuntu. By overwhelming numbers, they are using Ubuntu. The Buntu Bandwagon has moved thru there a while back it appears. When I mention that there are other Linux Distros, some of them look at me like I was crazy. By lesser numbers, they also have no idea of what KDE is.
h
No...I think what was, or should be implied here is that to many, Ubuntu IS Linux. I work now as a manager in a division that provides Tech Support to Server administrators. The "company email" is web based and while most people in the shop are windows oriented, many are either newly converted over to Linux or are toying with it now. There is much talk in the emails about Ubuntu. By overwhelming numbers, they are using Ubuntu. The Buntu Bandwagon has moved thru there a while back it appears. When I mention that there are other Linux Distros, some of them look at me like I was crazy. By lesser numbers, they also have no idea of what KDE is.
h
Our top story tonight: Buntu Bandwagon Barges Bossily Beyond its Betters! Lazy Luser Linuxes in a Lather! Forums Filled with Foam! Story at six.
For some people, the sky is always falling.
Linux from Dell may suck but this blog by AKH is pure speculative pessimism. Let's see what Dell does before we start trashing them.
I'm pretty encouraged by this line from Dell: "For hardware [not supported to our satisfaction], we are working with the vendors of those devices to improve the maturity and stability of their associated Linux drivers." (we'll see what mileage we eventually get)
I'm pretty encouraged by this line from Dell: "For hardware [not supported to our satisfaction], we are working with the vendors of those devices to improve the maturity and stability of their associated Linux drivers." (we'll see what mileage we eventually get)
Agreed.
I agree.
What this boils down to is that Dell will have exactly the same problems with licensing that anyone else would have if they were to install Ubuntu. The fact that they're a huge computer company makes no difference. If they were to start doing deals with codec licensors, etc, they'd probably alienate the ones who asked for this in the first place a la the Novell/MS sweetheart deal.
Being a big company does mean they have a bit of clout with hardware manufacturers. Manufacturers now have an incentive to fix up their drivers. And if Dell is preferring those drivers to be unrestricted, we might see some better licensing too.
What this boils down to is that Dell will have exactly the same problems with licensing that anyone else would have if they were to install Ubuntu. The fact that they're a huge computer company makes no difference. If they were to start doing deals with codec licensors, etc, they'd probably alienate the ones who asked for this in the first place a la the Novell/MS sweetheart deal.
Being a big company does mean they have a bit of clout with hardware manufacturers. Manufacturers now have an incentive to fix up their drivers. And if Dell is preferring those drivers to be unrestricted, we might see some better licensing too.
cubrewer:
While off-topic, your thread title reminded me of this: A favorite adaptation of "The Sky Is Falling" http://www.rickwalton.com/funstuff/skyfall.htm
While off-topic, your thread title reminded me of this: A favorite adaptation of "The Sky Is Falling" http://www.rickwalton.com/funstuff/skyfall.htm
I think he is a bit confused about Dell's objective. The market they are going after is selling hardware to Linux users. They are not trying to recruit Windows users to Linux.
Everything I have seen indicates that they want to sell a machine that a Linux user can take out of the box, install his/her favorite distribution, and expect hardware compatibility. They're not into Linux evangelism. They're not into Linux marketing. Codecs and the like are not a hardware issue, hence they are not Dell's problem. They're a problem that exists whether or not Dell sells only Windows machines.
As for offering only a subset of available hardware, that's the point. I can already buy any hardware I want but it doesn't do me any good to buy unsupported/poorly supported hardware. If I'm allergic to dairy products, I'd rather shop in a grocery store that doesn't sell dairy. Similarly, why would it be a problem if I'm unable to purchase an ATI video card that doesn't work with Debian.
Everything I have seen indicates that they want to sell a machine that a Linux user can take out of the box, install his/her favorite distribution, and expect hardware compatibility. They're not into Linux evangelism. They're not into Linux marketing. Codecs and the like are not a hardware issue, hence they are not Dell's problem. They're a problem that exists whether or not Dell sells only Windows machines.
As for offering only a subset of available hardware, that's the point. I can already buy any hardware I want but it doesn't do me any good to buy unsupported/poorly supported hardware. If I'm allergic to dairy products, I'd rather shop in a grocery store that doesn't sell dairy. Similarly, why would it be a problem if I'm unable to purchase an ATI video card that doesn't work with Debian.
I also agree. I would say that the author of that article probably dislikes the very idea of Dell selling GNU/Linux in the first place. It might not be true, but his article makes it impossible for Dell to please.
Btw, while it may be that these Dell's GNU/Linux machines wont be sold with a goal to recruit Windows users I am hoping for that as at least a part time side effect. It should make it so much easier for an ordinary user to buy a GNU/Linux PC and a bit harder to avoid.
Although, to what extent depends a lot on how much will Dell actually push GNU/Linux sales, that is, how much will they advertise it and how accessible will they make it.
Btw, while it may be that these Dell's GNU/Linux machines wont be sold with a goal to recruit Windows users I am hoping for that as at least a part time side effect. It should make it so much easier for an ordinary user to buy a GNU/Linux PC and a bit harder to avoid.
Although, to what extent depends a lot on how much will Dell actually push GNU/Linux sales, that is, how much will they advertise it and how accessible will they make it.
Quoting: Although, to what extent depends a lot on how much will Dell actually push GNU/Linux sales, that is, how much will they advertise it and how accessible will they make it.
That is true. I also think a lot depends on how hard the GNU/Linux community pushes these PCs. Now we can recommend Linux and a Dell...and not have to do anything to get it installed and running. It's gotta be easier to support something that's already working than to have to take the time to pick a distro for someone, install it and configure it to their liking.
I, for one, like Dell's quality on their PCs and workstations. My company sells them and overall they've been good. I see more problems out of HPs and Gateways than anything else. I see less problems (almost none, except for the occasional dead hard drive) out of IBMs and Lenovos. As for Dell laptops, however, I think they are more or less crap. Even the business lines just have a very lightweight, pansy feel to them, as if they're going to fall apart in your hands merely from handling. I don't see a lot of problems out of HP laptops, and IBMs and Lenovos are so rock solid it's not even funny. One of our other engineers inherited a newer T60 (I think) that is rather thin with a 14" screen, and it still weighs in at about 8 pounds or so...feels like iron. I like that, it actually feels like a good piece of equipment. I still recommend to people that they buy IBM laptops even though my company sells Dells.
>depends a lot on how much will Dell actually push GNU/Linux sales
AKH's blog post contains a quote from a Dell insider which seems to indicate that they only expect to sell about 200 Linux Dell machines annually. If that's the correct interpretation of the quote and the quote is accurate then surely Dell is not intending to "push" Linux. (i.e., I cannot imagine Dell spending much advertising money if they only expect to sell 200 machines).
And then there's Dell's relationship with Microsoft...
But who knows... Dell still has to advertise like crazy and what would it cost to toss a few Linux tag lines onto their existing ads... "Now with Linux" ... "Do you Ubuntu? We do..."
AKH's blog post contains a quote from a Dell insider which seems to indicate that they only expect to sell about 200 Linux Dell machines annually. If that's the correct interpretation of the quote and the quote is accurate then surely Dell is not intending to "push" Linux. (i.e., I cannot imagine Dell spending much advertising money if they only expect to sell 200 machines).
And then there's Dell's relationship with Microsoft...
But who knows... Dell still has to advertise like crazy and what would it cost to toss a few Linux tag lines onto their existing ads... "Now with Linux" ... "Do you Ubuntu? We do..."
cubrewer: They aim at 20000, not 200 machines. And I predict they'll sell many more (http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/25309/).
Post a comment
A free account is needed to post. Write your comment here first: your text is kept in this browser while you sign up or log in, and is waiting for you when you come back.
Your message:Markdown: **bold**, *italic*, [text](https://link), - lists, > quotes, $x^2$ for math. Formatting help
Sign up and post (it is free) or Log in and post
And then the rest of my brain (there ain't always a lot past the fanboi, unfortunately), says that this article is a bunch of sensationalist ramblings. He obviously lacks confidence in Dell, and he has no interest in giving them a chance to meet the demands of the Linux community. I understand the skepticism that people have, but Dell doesn't want to dive in head first and lose a bunch of money, that's not their game. Yes, the hardware is limited, but it's going to work with Ubuntu (and therefore whatever it is you want to use...such as PCLOS or Vector or CentOS or...or...or...). It may have problems for those who want 100% Free drivers, but that's not Dell's fault. If they are successful enough at selling these things, they'll actually be able to exert a little pressure and perhaps get more drivers opened up. That's why we don't have open drivers for our vid cards and our wireless...we don't have the market clout (well, I think we do, but we're totally unorganized). Dell has that sort of clout, and in the end this could be a giant boon for the penguin. Stop being so negative...be skeptical yet open minded.