This is an interesting Comment
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| devnet Aug 02, 2006 8:47 AM EDT |
From the article:Quoting:Nevertheless, MEPIS is now offering MEPIS related GPLed source code as a 2 DVD set available from the MEPIS Store for $29.95. Cool! I can buy GPL Source code!!! Awesome! I hope every distro charges me to get ahold of it! |
| sbergman27 Aug 02, 2006 9:06 AM EDT |
Just download it from Ubuntu. And I believe you can still ftp the stuff that Mepis modifies. The DVD set is for those people who absolutely insist upon getting unmodified Ubuntu sources from Mepis. |
| tuxchick2 Aug 02, 2006 9:15 AM EDT |
Why victimize Ubuntu because Warren Woodford feels abused at having to abide by the GPL? Why even support Mepis? As folks keep saying, if he doesn't like the GPL then he needs to not use GPL software. |
| underscore Aug 02, 2006 9:19 AM EDT |
devnet: Umm I'm sorry but I am confused by your comment. Do you mean that it is bad or somehow wrong that MEPIS is asking for money for the source code? And that it would set a bad example for other distros to begin to charge for source code? |
| sbergman27 Aug 02, 2006 9:19 AM EDT |
Question for GPL gurus: I hand out 10 PCLinuxOS CD's which do not include source, to 10 different people. 2.9 years down the road, one of them gets mad at me and demands the source for all the GPL'd binaries. Say PCLinuxOS is, by that time, defunct and I have trouble finding some of it at that late date. So he sues me over it. Does he have a case? |
| grouch Aug 02, 2006 9:20 AM EDT |
sbergman27: Yep. |
| tuxchick2 Aug 02, 2006 9:22 AM EDT |
grouch, why? Users don't have to hassle with this, just distribution maintainers. |
| grouch Aug 02, 2006 9:26 AM EDT |
tuxchick2: If you hand it out, you're distributing. Your 'out' may be section 3.c.: "c) Accompany it with the information you received as to the offer to distribute corresponding source code. (This alternative is allowed only for noncommercial distribution and only if you received the program in object code or executable form with such an offer, in accord with Subsection b above.)" So, if what you handed out includes the offer of the source, such as pointing to a website, you're fine. |
| sbergman27 Aug 02, 2006 9:34 AM EDT |
Another interesting comment from the article is this:Quoting:Woordford continued, "For the purpose of satisfying the restriction of the GPL license regarding GPLed source code, MEPIS grants an automatic limited agency relationship to individuals and groups giving MEPIS CDs to others free of charge or for a fee that is charged only to raise funds for a legal not-for-profit activity. This means MEPIS users can give copies of MEPIS Linux to their friends without being accused of violating the GPL license." So Warren has gone further than he absolutely needed to go. I actually sympathize with him on this one. Yes, there are good reasons for the GPL to be written the way it is. But it's still wasteful of resources. And if the sources come on 2 DVDs (not CDs) then we're not talking about a trivial amount of bandwidth. |
| dinotrac Aug 02, 2006 9:38 AM EDT |
Steve and TC: TC is right...the user has no course of action. It is actually the person who licensed you (or, for all practical purposes, the ultimate copyright holder) who has the course of action. |
| grouch Aug 02, 2006 9:41 AM EDT |
sbergman27: If he hadn't done that, the question you posed earlier would bite everybody who has handed out Mepis without the source. Section 3.c. would not be an escape clause for individuals thinking they were doing good, because those individuals did not receive an offer of source that they were passing along with the CD. IIRC, Canonical offered to host the source for Mepis. That would eliminate the burden of bandwidth and lots of other burdens. |
| dcparris Aug 02, 2006 9:53 AM EDT |
When binaries are distributed without sources, they must be accompanied by an offer to receive the source on some tangible media (floppy, cd, dvd, etc.). That's because someone might receive the binaries, but not have an Internet connection. And there are still people in that situation today. So, technically, all you have to do is ensure the media you pass along has the written offer to provide sources. I may be wrong, but I believe those sources must be made available to 3rd parties (downstream from the original distributor). If I'm correct, all he had to do was include a written offer in the downloadable distribution, as well as the DVD media. I believe he has wasted his time. |
| grouch Aug 02, 2006 9:55 AM EDT |
dcparris: Correct, except for all the existing Mepis CDs out there with no offer of source. They couldn't have that offer because the full source wasn't available when they were passed out. |
| tuxchick2 Aug 02, 2006 10:01 AM EDT |
Warren has been playing licensing games and double-talking from Day 1. There are good practical reasons for not depending on an upstream source and distributing only modified sources- what happens when the upstream source goes belly-up? And for all of Woodford's wailing and weeping, making complete sources available is not a big deal. You have to have a current source tree somewheres just to put your distribution together. Find a free hosting mirror- there's tons of them. Burn a master CD and make copies on request. And again, if you don't want to pay, don't play. Warren can cry all he wants over the cost and hassle of distributing sources. How much would it cost him to create from scratch a complete distribution his own self? |
| grouch Aug 02, 2006 10:07 AM EDT |
tuxchick2: Your earlier comment also holds a key: Mepis is commercial. Note section 3.c. is only allowed for noncommercial distribution. He was pointing upstream for the source as if his was not commercial distribution. That may also be why, according to the article, "[h]e also believes that the vast majority of Linux distributors are in the same boat." I see no evidence to support that belief, BTW. |
| devnet Aug 02, 2006 10:21 AM EDT |
tuxchick2, Been saying that as well for quite sometime...since back during their original license whining period (circa 2004). I said then to just throw up a sourceforge page and update it at ever major release. Easy enough right? The MEPIS community nailed me to the wall for bringing it up. Funny how that happens. Now there are more options...Just host it at google projects...I'm sure they won't go belly up anytime soon AND I'm sure the bandwidth won't dry up. |
| devnet Aug 02, 2006 10:59 AM EDT |
Quoting:devnet: Umm I'm sorry but I am confused by your comment. Do you mean that it is bad or somehow wrong that MEPIS is asking for money for the source code? And that it would set a bad example for other distros to begin to charge for source code?No...I'm saying that there was no link in the article, nor on the MEPIS website to a free repository of GPL code (the same code contained on the DVDs). I guess one could argue it's a service to provide these copies so charging is warranted...I don't know. Of course, another problem is that they're not making smart business decisions. They don't have to do the distributing themselves...they're creating more work for themselves. Since they are a business...they could find one distributor to do it for them. Instead, they take it on themselves to distribute. If you can ever get someone to do something for you so that you don't have to...why not? Sure, you might only get say 20 bucks out of the 29 but who gives a crap when it's free for people to download? If you make anything off it at all you'd be tickled pink. |
| sbergman27 Aug 02, 2006 12:35 PM EDT |
Almost makes me want to go back to more conventional proprietary licenses. Especially when dealing with clients. Things seem much more straightforward in that domain. |
| grouch Aug 02, 2006 9:13 PM EDT |
sbergman27: You should now go back and re-read at least the MS XP Pro EULA. Please explain it to us non-lawyers, clause by clause. Please also explain why we can't make copies and share them, and why discussions about who is obligated to provide source code to whom simply do not come up concerning MS products. |
| watux Aug 03, 2006 3:47 AM EDT |
sbergman27: actually going ahead and reading all of the text from a few of these proprietary licences should cure that delusion. |
| dcparris Aug 03, 2006 8:17 AM EDT |
Yeah, wake up steve! You're having a nightmare. Just click your heals together three times... :-) |
| tuxchick2 Aug 03, 2006 8:36 AM EDT |
There's no place like /home.... |
| jimf Aug 03, 2006 8:40 AM EDT |
Maybe he's not wearing the red shoes ....? |
| sbergman27 Aug 03, 2006 8:44 AM EDT |
--------------------
Dear Auntie Em, Hate you. Hate Kansas. I'm taking the dog. -Dorothy --------------------- I saw that on a tee-shirt once. It was written on blue and white checkerboard stationery. Just thought I'd share it. ;-) |
| devnet Aug 03, 2006 8:50 AM EDT |
Jimf, Oh he's wearing the shoes alright...and the dress...and the bow in the hair...and the...ack! Horrible mental image! *gouges eyes with fist* |
| jimf Aug 03, 2006 8:53 AM EDT |
> Oh he's wearing the shoes alright...and the dress...and the bow in the hair...and the...ack! Horrible mental image! Now that's just 'WRONG'!!! :( It's off to therapy for you devnet! :D |
| sbergman27 Aug 03, 2006 8:55 AM EDT |
Yet another vision complaint. See Don? Dev, I'll have you know that I decided years ago that blue polka-dot just wasn't me. -Steve Edit: And everone *knows* that goatees simply don't go with blue polkadot. So there. |
| grouch Aug 03, 2006 9:03 AM EDT |
The pig did it. Steve was just the first victim. We're all doomed. Did anybody bring chocolate? |
| jimf Aug 03, 2006 9:04 AM EDT |
Steve, You have to remember, that as a visual artist, you say it and I see it :D... |
| dcparris Aug 03, 2006 9:27 AM EDT |
O.k., I appreciate all the polite references to the pig. But I know you're all really talking about that shot of my legs. I know a conspiracy when I see one! |
| grouch Aug 03, 2006 9:50 AM EDT |
They are not "polite references". We're trying to form mental defenses and you just broke 'em down. Medic! |
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