Sleeping with the borg. It's a good thing.
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| jimf Apr 14, 2007 1:35 AM EDT |
Another brain 'storm(?)' from... you guessed it, Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols. The chances of this one happening are smaller than a snowball in hell. That's ignoring the very distasteful idea of having Microsoft jumping into bed with us. |
| dinotrac Apr 14, 2007 3:02 AM EDT |
Hey, jimf -- I suspect there's a little tongue in cheek going on in that article. Although, it would be nice to get some Windows code opened up...maybe get Wine finished up and working across the borg...er, board. Here, in my vidw, is what SJVN said in that article: Microsoft, you stink. All that time, all that money, and you still can't get it right. The Linux guys do a better job that you do. Vista would be better if they had developed it. And I think he's right. |
| tracyanne Apr 14, 2007 3:09 AM EDT |
Quoting:That's ignoring the very distasteful idea of having Microsoft jumping into bed with us. Somehow the image of this overweight greasy smelly old man climbing into my bed is a little too hard to shake. |
| dcparris Apr 14, 2007 3:23 AM EDT |
Actually, I was calling for MS to open Windows over a year ago. SJVN is sooo slow. ;-) |
| bigg Apr 14, 2007 5:57 AM EDT |
> Actually, I was calling for MS to open Windows over a year ago. SJVN is sooo slow. ;-) I remember him making the same argument about a year ago as well. Maybe he copied from you? I'm not sure what good the Windows source would do us even under the GPL. Maybe a few fonts or Windows Media? Maybe put together something to run legacy Windows apps on Linux? I can't think of anything else. |
| dinotrac Apr 14, 2007 6:03 AM EDT |
> Maybe put together something to run legacy Windows apps on Linux? That would seem to be a big one. For that matter, what about all the mom'n pop development shops --- and there are tons of them --- using MS development tools and lacking the resources to operate in any other space? Being able to work Windows APIs turns Windows Apps into Linux apps. Kind of. |
| tuxchick Apr 14, 2007 7:46 AM EDT |
Opening up the Windows sources would be very dangerous. Just think of all the injuries when people fall over in helpless laughter. Then the outrage when they see thousands of lines of poached FOSS code- outrage from the poaching, and even more outrage from turning all that good code into a dungmobile. No, it's too risky. Let sleeping poo lie. |
| dinotrac Apr 14, 2007 8:00 AM EDT |
>even more outrage from turning all that good code into a dungmobile. Y'know, I've never been convinced that MS has actually stolen a lot of code. I could be wrong, it just seems that MS software would work a whole lot better if they were really stealing that much code. I suppose they may not have mastered cut'n paste completely... |
| dcparris Apr 14, 2007 9:30 AM EDT |
> it just seems that MS software would work a whole lot better if they were really stealing that much code. Thief! You stole the words right out of my mouth! I'm calling the cops. |
| dinotrac Apr 14, 2007 9:34 AM EDT |
>I'm calling the cops. I'm sorry, the BSA is unavailable right now. They have recently upgraded to Vista, and, well, you can only imagine. |
| dcparris Apr 14, 2007 11:15 AM EDT |
:-D |
| tuxchick Apr 14, 2007 12:28 PM EDT |
tracyanne, that's an image that is going to be hard to erase from my mind! |
| jimf Apr 14, 2007 12:37 PM EDT |
> I suspect there's a little tongue in cheek going on in that article Read it again, and I'm not seeing that. Yeah, he laughs at MS's ability to handle programming, but he really thinks that joining Linux would be a real solution for them. Really Dino, what wouldn't suprise me at all would be MS going the way of Apple with BSD. BSD is much closer to, or at least doesn't oppose MS goals so much. Heck, they are already openly using a lot of BSD code. |
| dinotrac Apr 14, 2007 1:13 PM EDT |
>MS going the way of Apple with BSD. Could be. Trouble is, how would they ever manage to get the MS bits right? Apple has skills. Microsoft? |
| jimf Apr 14, 2007 1:20 PM EDT |
> how would they ever manage to get the MS bits right? I never said anything about getting it 'right', just that they'd likely go that way. After all, MS has a second skill besides marketing. It's called "screwing things up". |
| dcparris Apr 14, 2007 2:04 PM EDT |
What gets me is that MS would actually be better releasing their code under a copyleft license. They would get real community input while keeping their enemies close at hand. A libre license would also be the only way I would use their OS. ;-) |
| Abe Apr 14, 2007 2:35 PM EDT |
This is really odd, why would we want Visto opened up? what are we going to benefit from it? Isn't Linux good enough? I agree with JimF (did I say that!), SJVN is really serious about it and he is full-heartedly advising MS to open Visto and join FOSS. He is telling MS not to waste its time because they can't stop FOSS and better join it. You see, none of the advertising web sites and journalist want to see MS to go down the drain, It is their best advertising client. If MS is gone, where are they going to get their advertising revenues from? |
| jimf Apr 14, 2007 2:49 PM EDT |
I'm not even sure that's true Don. MS has such an exploitative track record that it's going to be a very long time before anyone trusts them, no matter what move they make. I also question whether their Corporate head-state will even accept (or comprehend) A libre license. |
| dcparris Apr 14, 2007 9:12 PM EDT |
Well, let me put it this way: http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/48999/index.html ;-) |
| Aladdin_Sane Apr 14, 2007 9:24 PM EDT |
There are ways to destroy FOSS. Commercial underhandedness of which MS is the most talented is not one of them. But there are ways. Easy example: Pass a DMCA-like law outlawing FOSS. May not eliminate it, but will chill it to death. There are other ways, more Darwinian. Some opine that Debian is dying under its own weight. Maybe. Can you pollute a river and not pollute the sea? I have this mental picture of 40 million tons of garbage being GPL'd at once. This would most surely destroy FOSS. |
| dinotrac Apr 15, 2007 3:20 AM EDT |
> agree with JimF (did I say that!), SJVN is really serious about it and he is full-heartedly advising MS to open Visto and join FOSS I don't think he's that stupid and I think this article is a subtle form of tongue-in-cheek that is more ironic than funny. Having seen what happened to Novell, having seen the relatively light community input to OpenOffice and Mozilla, how can SJVN, down deep where a pretty good brain actually lurks, believe that the free software community could be any kind of resource to Microsoft? I suppose you could make a case for enlightened self-interest. Free software folks may not wish to help Microsoft at all, but see a huge benefit in creating better support for Windows applications. Free software being free software, they couldn't easily keep Microsoft from adding their stuff into an open Windows. That would seem a stretch, though, as the differences between *ix and Windows (a message-passing OS) go down pretty deep. |
| dinotrac Apr 15, 2007 3:27 AM EDT |
>Pass a DMCA-like law outlawing FOSS In theory, yes. As a practical matter, no, though one should never say never. The politics aren't strong enough to make something like that happen -- although the Democrats are in power now, and their ties to Bill Gates and to the entertainment industry are very strong. I think, however, that DRM is coming to our rescue. It's a pain in the butt and people are getting annoyed. I think the Hollywood crowd would have trouble getting that through a PR campaign. |
| Abe Apr 15, 2007 6:05 AM EDT |
Quoting:I don't think he's that stupid and I think this article is a subtle form of tongue-in-cheek that is more ironic than funny. No, he is not stupid at all but, you must have read his articles and seen how supportive of Novell-MS's agreement he is. May be SJVN is raising a challenge to MS since he knows pretty well that MS will never open Vista unless they are forced. MS goes to the extreme to prevent FOSS from inter-operating with Vista. Quoting:Free software folks may not wish to help Microsoft at all, but see a huge benefit in creating better support for Windows applications. Unless you meant better interoperability with FOSS applications, what benefits Free software folks would see in creating better support for Windows Apps.? I don't see how opening Vista would improve application interoperability which is more important to users. We already have seen to what extent MS is willing to go to avoid using an Open Standard like ODF. We will never see OpenVista, not in our dreams. |
| dinotrac Apr 15, 2007 6:39 AM EDT |
>what benefits I believe that more people using FOSS means more drivers, more development, more better good stuff, y'all. Windows apps are a stumbling block that keep many people from even considering a move to Linux. Remove the block, get more people. |
| Abe Apr 15, 2007 7:41 AM EDT |
Quoting:>what benefits ... I certainly agree on both but opening Vista will not help neither. I assume you are referring to all Windows apps, MS & other vendors, but if MS does that, they will lose control. MS will never let that happen. The mere idea of MS opening anything is ludicrous and shouldn't be entertained like SJVN did. So far, MS showed a little willingness of interoperability and only with companies who are naive enough to sign a contract like Novell did. MS has to hurt pretty bad before they even think about volunteering any cooperation. |
| dinotrac Apr 15, 2007 8:04 AM EDT |
>MS will never let that happen I tend to agree. The only way I could imagine that -- and Vista could make it happen -- is if people see the MS OS as too doggy to deal with, and its cash cow status evaporates. At that point, MS might be more concerned with propping up its non-OS products and release the code. About as likely as me hitting the town with Jennifer Love Hewitt, I'm afraid. |
| jimf Apr 15, 2007 9:28 AM EDT |
> The mere idea of MS opening anything is ludicrous and shouldn't be entertained like SJVN did. Well, at least clearly labled as (bad) sci-fi... |
| Abe Apr 15, 2007 11:38 AM EDT |
Quoting:About as likely as me hitting the town with Jennifer Love Hewitt, I'm afraid. They say if you dream of something enough it happens. You never know. |
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