Liitle price differential
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| richo123 May 24, 2007 5:42 AM EDT |
So *apparently* the laptop is cheaper then the equivalent windows version but one of the desktops is more expensive.
http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/12396/1023/ Of course precise comparisons are difficult however some explanation from our Dell company lurkers on Lxer might be appreciated. |
| Sander_Marechal May 24, 2007 6:15 AM EDT |
Just wait until 4pm CST. Then we can compare hardware configurations. It's entirely possible that some of the hardware that goes in the cheapest configuration doesn't work well with Ubuntu so Dell doesn't offer it. If there are still Ubuntu machines at the same or higher prices with the same configuration, then is the time to ask "What's up?". Not now. |
| Aladdin_Sane May 24, 2007 7:04 AM EDT |
richo123: Thanks for the link. I imagine there will be plenty of commenting. Please see the original post at Direct2Dell http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2007/05/24/15994.aspx as well. |
| richo123 May 24, 2007 7:08 AM EDT |
sander, I agree that's why I used *apparently*. |
| Aladdin_Sane May 24, 2007 10:37 AM EDT |
I'm not sure I read this right: I saw on Direct2Dell that E520n (no Windows model) will start at $599. The current E520 (with Windows) starts at $369 as of now (was $359 this morning). When verifying these prices for Dimension models, both Windows and Ubuntu, be sure to check for "s=dhs" (Dell Home Sales) in the URL, or your comparison is not apples-to apples (just so you know). I may have missed an apple (sorry) or an orange (or a pomegranate), but, um, lets see: 369/599=.60, right? Another thing: As I understand it, Dell supports [the hardware and the OS shipped] in the normal case, but in the Ubuntu case Dell only supports [the hardware]. |
| rijelkentaurus May 24, 2007 11:36 AM EDT |
Quoting: As I understand it, Dell supports [the hardware and the OS shipped] in the normal case In my experience, their support of Windows is to try a couple of easy things to fix a problem and then they tell you to reinstall. They are very quick to blame the OS in the case of tricky hardware diagnostics. Beyond that they offer nothing. |
| Aladdin_Sane May 24, 2007 1:07 PM EDT |
>>In my experience, their support of Windows is to try a couple of easy things to fix a problem and then they tell you to reinstall. True. And what else would you do in the context of "15 minutes or re-install?" Especially given that the hardware is go in DOS, or Linux? |
| richo123 May 24, 2007 2:03 PM EDT |
OK I checked the laptop out carefully. For the same memory, cpu, diskspace and screen you are looking at $50 difference (watch out for the difference in standard memory) Linux=$649 MS=$699 HOWEVER the systems do not offer the same graphics cards. The M$ version has a 256MB ATI MOBILITY™ RADEON® X1400 while the linux version has a Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator 950 and this comparison http://www.notebookcheck.net/Intel-Graphics-Media-Accelerato... shows the ATI graphics card is clearly superior. My conclusion: On this model, very little effective price difference Comments Dell? |
| hkwint May 24, 2007 2:56 PM EDT |
The Windows laptop has a cheaper WIFI card, if you want the Intel WIFI card for Windows, it'll be $729. Also, the Windows laptop has far more thinks to include in the sale than the Linux one. However, this may be good for a start. Don't forget, with the Windows offer you also need stuff like anti-spy and anti-virus, which means pirated software or extra cost. The Windows version probably also contains more crapware. |
| dinotrac May 24, 2007 2:56 PM EDT |
>shows the ATI graphics card is clearly superior. Depends on what you value, I suppose. Given all the posts I saw about native Linux drivers, the Intel card is clearl superior if you value free software. |
| rijelkentaurus May 24, 2007 3:59 PM EDT |
Quoting: Depends on what you value, I suppose. Amen to that, Dino. |
| richo123 May 24, 2007 5:56 PM EDT |
Hkwint, > The Windows laptop has a cheaper WIFI card, if you want the Intel WIFI card for Windows, it'll be $729. Fair call, I missed that, so the difference is $80 which based on experience with linux vendors is what I would guess is close to the difference you would find if you wanted to upgrade graphics cards. In fact on Lenovo laptops it makes a $75 difference: http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/systemconfig.r... As far as crapware goes that's not the point as I could scrub the disk of windows and install Linux on the system (confidently) for an extra $80 for a better graphics card. Bottomline: Windows is not costing anything according to Dell. Dino, AMD have pledged to open source their ATI driver..... http://enterpriselinuxlog.blogs.techtarget.com/2007/05/09/am... |
| dinotrac May 24, 2007 7:48 PM EDT |
richo - >pledged Ain't the same as done. Mind you, it doesn't bother me much. I don't like proprietary drivers, but I can live with them. The thing is, given the expressions of many Linux folk, it is reasonable for Dell to equip the boxes with intel graphics. |
| hkwint May 25, 2007 2:24 AM EDT |
Quoting:Windows is not costing anything according to Dell. Hehe... True, but then why does Dell pay for it? |
| richo123 May 25, 2007 3:22 AM EDT |
Dino,
> The thing is, given the expressions of many Linux folk, it is reasonable for Dell to equip the boxes with intel graphics. No problem with that however they should in that case have charged their customers $75 less to reflect the lower cost of hardware. |
| dinotrac May 25, 2007 3:46 AM EDT |
>$75 less A. Does the ATI actually cost $75 more? I did some quick looking around, but it's hard to get prices on notebook graphics. I saw desktop cards that looked as if they might bracket the X1400 in the $55-90 range. Presumably, the Intel card is not free. B. There seem to be a few other hardware differences. C. Hey! They've put together something that works with Linux, and it sounds like they've put a little effort into it. That ain't free, either. On balance, a Linux box should not cost more than a Windows box. With the exact same hardware and selling at the same volume, it should cost (Windows price - Linux price) less. And no, you don't pencil in $0 for the Linux price just because you can download it and slap it onto your machine for no out-of-pocket money. |
| richo123 May 25, 2007 4:11 AM EDT |
Dino, A. Read my Lenovo configuration link above. The options listed are identical (Intel 950 and ATI X1400) and they are charging $75 more for the ATI card. B. What other hardware differences? Please explain..... C. I don't buy it. |
| dinotrac May 25, 2007 6:47 AM EDT |
> Read my Lenovo configuration link above. The options listed are identical (Intel 950 and ATI X1400) and they are charging $75 more for the ATI card. A. Got it. Lenovo isn't Dell, but hard to imagine that the economics are radically different. B. The WIFI card, which you noted. C. Your problem, not mine. The evidence suggests that Dell actually gave some thought to their offering. And, my own D: $5 for Windows sounds overpriced to me. What's your beef? |
| richo123 May 25, 2007 9:40 AM EDT |
Dino,
I agree with D ;-) ;-) However one could argue that Windows does not cost Dell $5 (True cost $50-$100 ???) so why aren't the savings of not including it not being passed on to us as Linux users? After all if they were then the low end laptop offering would be maybe $499 instead of $599. Such a differential with windows laptop prices MIGHT JUST encourage consumers to give Linux a proper shot. |
| dinotrac May 25, 2007 9:50 AM EDT |
>However one could argue that Windows does not cost Dell $5 (True cost $50-$100 ???) One could argue a lot of things, but only Dell knows the real answer. The true cost to Dell is the net cost of providing Windows, not the cost of the box/license/whatever the heck they get. The big cost whittlers I can see are" 1. Fixed costs (testing for compatibility, putting on web-site, hiring flunkies, whatever) are spread out over a lot of units. 2. Lots of companies pay Dell to include crippleware in their products. If you pay $50 for Windows, but collect $25 in crippleware fees, your net cost is $25. |
| bigg May 25, 2007 9:59 AM EDT |
Don't forget that Dell will probably never sell a copy of MS Office or antivirus software for a Linux desktop. |
| richo123 May 25, 2007 10:09 AM EDT |
Dino, Interesting point about crippleware. I think however that your OEM pricetag of $50 for Windows is on the low side (actually it is what Ballmer claims). Ars Technica looked into it and came up with numbers ranging from $100-$200 for Vista depending on version: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070124-8696.html They note however that Dell pays less than this but state that this price is secret. So my figure of $50-$100 for the low end Windows might be close to the mark. |
| NoDough May 25, 2007 10:19 AM EDT |
richo, I would be astonished if Dell paid more than $20 each for its low end Windows licenses. With all due respect to arstechnica, when you move the quantity that Dell moves you get awesome prices on, well, on just about everything. |
| tuxchick May 25, 2007 10:35 AM EDT |
It it were me, I would be nattering on how much money you save by not having to purchase: -firewall -anti-malware, spyware, viruses, all that junk, then getting infected anyway and having to spend time and money recovering -backup software -meelyuns of quality productivity apps, like office suite, graphics, scientific guff, games, you name it -the most super-studliest hardware on the planet just to boot the dommed OS Then the whole ease-of-use thing, with dead-easy updates and package management, and not worrying about infection, and true multi-user so you can safely share a PC, and all those good things we take for granted. |
| richo123 May 25, 2007 10:40 AM EDT |
NoDough, You're talking 80% discount over regular OEM pricing there. I'm pretty skeptical.......But as Dino says we will never know since Dell and M$ don't reveal this info. |
| richo123 May 25, 2007 10:44 AM EDT |
TC, I think their market (they say it is linux enthusiasts) already knows this. My point was that I (as a linux enthusiast) resent paying an indirect Windows tax. |
| dinotrac May 25, 2007 10:44 AM EDT |
richo - Yeah. I'll bet the folks at Dell only know after running things through some fairly sophisticated analyses. Here's the thing that should matter most: Dell is selling PC's -- including notebooks -- with Linux Preinstalled. They are selling them from their some/small business site and targeting ordinary consumers. They are using components that work well with Linux. The machines aren't priced any more than the Windows machines that many people considered good enough deals that more than a few computers were bought, stripped of Windows, and turned into Linux boxes. Yeah, we can gripe about this'n that, but, on balance, the gripes I've seen are mouse nuts. |
| dinotrac May 25, 2007 10:46 AM EDT |
>My point was that I (as a linux enthusiast) resent paying an indirect Windows tax. And what, exactly, might that be? |
| NoDough May 25, 2007 10:51 AM EDT |
Just finished ordering my daughter's Dell/Linux laptop for college. And yes, I am smiling. :) |
| jrm May 25, 2007 11:10 AM EDT |
>If you pay $50 for Windows, but collect $25 in crippleware fees, your net cost is $25. Are you talking about Vista Basic, or the OTHER crippleware? |
| NoDough May 25, 2007 11:20 AM EDT |
jrm: LOL Considering the differences between XP and Vista, is Vista crippleware or malware or both? |
| techiem2 May 25, 2007 11:36 AM EDT |
Cripplemalspyware |
| Teron May 25, 2007 11:47 AM EDT |
Malware. Not overly bad, but malware nonetheless. It does have crippleware aspects, too. |
| dcparris May 25, 2007 1:21 PM EDT |
> with dead-easy updates and package management I dunno, TC. Poor ol' Adrian found that Ubuntu update thingy way too geeky. Poor guy. I wonder how he managed to write that article? |
| tuxchick May 25, 2007 1:31 PM EDT |
Well now, Don, that's a good point. OK, I was wrong. I take it all back. *drool commences* |
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