Thoughts on Ubuntu 8.10
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| TCO Dec 24, 2008 11:50 AM EDT |
I am really tired of these Windows Users blessing us with their gift of brilliance in OS design. If Linux wants to be a world class OS like Windows or OSX ..blah ..blah ..blah -----PLEASE STFU You don't know a thing about building an OS. You probably haven't installed Windows more than 4 times in your life. Everything that is unlike that experience is bad in your opinion. You conveniently forget all the nightmares Windows is capable of. If Creative Labs doesn't make drivers for Linux IT"S THEIR FAULT! ..not Ubuntus or Fedoras. I've had a bunch of Dell computers running XP. Guess What? They all need drivers! IT'S DELLS FAULT! not Microsoft's! Why they keep blaming driver support on the guys who write the OS is beyond me. Microsoft has been able to set the Standards for years and still they screw up a lot. With no drivers or support it's a miracle that Ubuntu and any Linux works as well as it does. the Linux people have been kicking ass for over ten years now WITH NO SUPPORT AT ALL. Please try to remember that. Much of the hardware they run on is hostile territory. Microsoft doesn't want Linux running on it. Any monkey Wrench they can throw in the works to stop Linux from working they will. |
| Sander_Marechal Dec 24, 2008 12:11 PM EDT |
So much anger. Did you read the article at all? He isn't complaining about drivers at all. Well, he is but he's saying it's the manufacturers fault. The audio and video issues he mentioned are indeed problems with Ubuntu. More reading and less FUDing, m'kay? |
| Steven_Rosenber Dec 24, 2008 4:25 PM EDT |
Doing an install and having to deal with X and audio problems is a huge pain, but unfortunately it happens all too often. And yes, Ubuntu is held to a higher standard when it comes to autoconfiguration of video and audio. My suggestion for people who have a new machine (or a machine new to FOSS operating systems) is to make a bunch of live CD/DVDs and install CD/DVDs and try more than a few systems before you decide to do the install. If, say, Debian, Mandriva, CentOS, Slackware, OpenSUSE, Fedora, PCLinuxOS ... or what have you ... configures your hardware better/faster/stronger than Ubuntu, you have two choices: a) go with the system that works better out of the box (but make sure you at least put /home on its own partition so you can easily change distros) b) use what you learn in a "good" distro to help you whip the "bad" ones into shape. Save your xorg.conf file and use that information to modify the xorg.conf (and choice of drivers) in other distros. Do the same with sound. If Ubuntu happens to run better than anything else out there on your specific hunk of hardware, by all means use it. However, I've found that while Ubuntu works great on many boxes, there are plenty of PCs out there that are treated better by other distros — or by a non-Linux FOSS OS entirely. (I have a 1999-era Compaq laptop that will do sound in Linux, but only after I hack at it a bit; sound in OpenBSD works out of the box). In other words, try before you buy into one distro over all others. |
| bigg Dec 24, 2008 4:33 PM EDT |
My suggestion is that you buy a machine with Linux already installed. Dell, for instance, offers some good deals. As has been said many times, if you had to install Windows on a machine built for use only with Linux, it would be a lot worse. |
| Steven_Rosenber Dec 24, 2008 5:53 PM EDT |
Along that line, does anybody have any reports on how well Ubuntu is configured on Dell preinstalls? I imagine that going with ZaReason or System76 gives you a much better chance of things working right -- along with responsive support after the sale. My own experience with Linux installs is that we're still firmly in hobbyist country. I wouldn't recommend that Joe/Josephine Average, with no previous Linux exposure, do an install on a box that was in current use and which s/he depended on for computing above all other boxes. However, I do recommend to just about everybody that they either keep or acquire a second (third ... fourth and fifth) system around to experiment with. That's the best way to get your sea legs in this sort of thing. |
| Sander_Marechal Dec 24, 2008 6:13 PM EDT |
@Steven: I have no idea about the preinstalls from Dell, but it has been years since I have experienced any problems with Dell latitudes when I put Debian (Lenny) or Ubuntu on them. Only broadcom chipsets used to be a hurdle but since the new wifi stack and broadcom drivers with kernel 2.6.22 or so I have experienced no problems with that. Of course, if you have a Latitude with ATI instead of Intel graphics you need to install the Catalyst drivers if you want 3D. Edit: Wait, just one small thing. You need to edit xorg.conf to increase the speed/sensitivity of the touchpad. The default is way too slow. That's it, really. |
| tracyanne Dec 24, 2008 6:21 PM EDT |
Quoting:My suggestion is that you buy a machine with Linux already installed. Dell, for instance, offers some good deals. In Australia, Dell, yeah right. I hope to that bug shortly. The Dell will probably come along and undercut me. |
| caitlyn Dec 25, 2008 2:04 PM EDT |
I'm mostly with Steven and Sander on this one. I, however, cannot really defend Ubuntu too much. My current netbook had no sound with Ubuntu Intrepid Ibex and it isn't easy to fix even for a seasoned hand. WIth gOS (a Hardy Heron remix) it just works. I installed Vector Linux and it just worked out of the box. This echoes my experience with other machines: Ubuntu seems to have more bugs, really annoying ones at that, than the other major distros and many second tier distros as well. To Steven's point about preinstalls: a system with a well configured Linux distro preinstalled is the right answer for most people and its what is pushing Linux into the mainstream. OTOH, a poorly configured Linux distro doesn't help matters any and makes Linux look bad. I did buy my Sylvania g netbook with Linux preinstalled. The hardware is brilliant but the gOS/Linux configuration was seriously borked. For example, the g comes with a 1.2 GHz Via C7-M ULV processor. It fully supports CPU frequency scaling. gOS, both as provided on the machine and in the update available on the Sylvania website, doesn't support scaling and leaves the machine permanently clocked at 600MHz. The net result is sluggish performance. I had to apply a patch to the 2.6.24.x kernel to make it work. That patch has been available longer than the Sylvania machine has been on the market so there is no excuse for this. OTOH, Vector Linux 6rc1, which has a newer kernel, worked out of the box. Their graphical vcpufreq application made it easy to set up scaling any way I wanted. Right now the machine has nice, snappy performance in either gOS or Vector (I'm dual booting) but I had to make that happen. The manufacturer didn't. That's one of *THREE* major failings in the out of box configuration. No wonder this thing gets mixed reviews. So... preloaded systems are not always the right answer. Dell's early attempts with Ubuntu were similarly borked. From what I understand they pretty much get it right now. |
| ColonelPanik Dec 25, 2008 3:14 PM EDT |
Every distro will not work with every machine.
When distros change kernel, you lose some hardware
and you gain some hardware. Ubuntu 8.10 did everything on my old desktop, perfect from the moment it was installed. 8.10 worked with the old lappy that my dear wife uses. This old lappy I am on now would not boot the live Ubuntu CD, would not do a Debian .netinstall. Mint did not work. Puppy did not work. DamnSmall damn near worked but not well enough to monkey with. PCLinuxOS worked just like we would like all distros to work, but only in KDE version. The GNOME version would not install. When the hardware is designed for Linux we will be in paradise. But hear this: I will never buy a new computer that does not have Linux pre-installed. |
| Steven_Rosenber Dec 25, 2008 5:30 PM EDT |
Caitlyn, I'm with you about gOS. Mind you, I only used version 1, but it works a lot better as marketing than in actual on-the-box use. For one thing, it was actually heavier in terms of CPU use than standard Ubuntu. Given how speedy Vector is, I imagine that it's running the proverbial rings around gOS. My next install is going to be ZenWalk. Haven't tried that one in awhile. |
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