KMail Complexity - and a little Patience

Forum: LinuxTotal Replies: 18
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Ridcully

Feb 11, 2016
8:15 AM EST
Some time back, I wrote an article under this heading and in the last section of the article I explained how the old KDE3.5 version of Patience was still available if you looked in the repository of openSUSE 13.1.

I am now seriously playing with openSUSE 13.1 on a 64bit laptop and of course, wanted to install my favourite version of KDE patience. And so, it is with a great deal of sadness that I would like to report that it would appear that the KDE4 team have obviously seen my article and (in my opinion anyway), they have moved to destroy/sabotage the choice of either THEIR version of patience or the earlier (and in my opinion better version) of KDE3.5 patience. The package is now altered and it states that it no longer contains KPat, and only has Lieutenant Skat and Poker.......The kpat executable is still installed in /opt/kde3/bin/ but will NOT run. I am minded of the old story of the dog in the manger....If my hypothesis is correct, all you can say is "Well done KDE4 - you really like enforcing the cathedral concept don't you ?"
penguinist

Feb 11, 2016
8:28 AM EST
Are we ready for a KDE fork yet?
jdixon

Feb 11, 2016
10:42 AM EST
> Are we ready for a KDE fork yet?

https://www.trinitydesktop.org/

It looks like there's a version for OpenSuSE, Ridcully, though I can't get the page to load: https://wiki.trinitydesktop.org/OpenSUSEInstall
seatex

Feb 11, 2016
1:00 PM EST
Here's a distro with Trinity included.

Q4OS

http://q4os.org/
Ridcully

Feb 11, 2016
3:09 PM EST
What I have been doing is using old copies of openSUSE that still run KDE3.5 and finding the rpm for Kpat......and installing that. It takes a little fiddling, but it works very nicely ultimately. I had a big clean up recently and threw all the old disks out - didn't think I'd ever want them again....LOL...You just can't win.

I've tried Trinity jdixon but didn't like it. It was some time back and I found the start menu overly cumbersome, but there are other reasons as well. Let's face it, KDE4 as it runs in openSUSE 13.1 is very polished - well in my opinion anyway, and in the 64 bit machine (i5) it's very fast. I use the folder view as it resembles KDE3.5 quite well, and of course, I use the classical form of the start menu. I now prefer Dolphin to KDE3.5's file manager of Konqueror and of course, you get to use far more updated versions of some of the software. The niggles in KDE4 remain: KWallet which is a damn nuisance and I turn it off (it tries to interfere with browsing for heaven's sakes), KMail which in my opinion has been sabotaged by the semantic desktop and KWallet, and sadly, the lovely "My Computer" readout which still existed in KDE4.6, but has now "gone with the wind" and the present version doesn't cut the mustard for me at all. But on the whole, I like KDE4......It's really only a few things that annoy me and I can live with them.

There's stacks of other patience versions around.......It might be fun to explore and see what's available. Pysol used to be an option, but it was discontinued circa 2004, although enthusiasts appear to be keeping it going. But, as they say, I ain't gonna get me knickers in a twist over a game of patience. I'd love to know what the heck the KDE4 mob did to that KDE3.5 package though. How did they manage to get kpat installed along with the other two items but of the three, kpat will NOT run. I've even gone into /opt/kde3/bin/ and clicked on the executables of all three.....it is only kpat that will not open. Interesting but very frustrating.
jdixon

Feb 11, 2016
3:30 PM EST
> I've even gone into /opt/kde3/bin/ and clicked on the executables of all three.....it is only kpat that will not open. Interesting but very frustrating.

Try running it from the command line and see what errors it gives you. That may give you a clue.
Ridcully

Feb 11, 2016
3:39 PM EST
Thanks jdixon, I'll give it a whirl.....but not this morning......Family trip to the local shopping mall. I just took a look at what is in /opt/kde3/bin/ in my present working installation of openSUSE and it all looks identical and I just clicked on kpat and it simply runs as expected. But I'll check your suggestion out and come back to you.
Ridcully

Feb 12, 2016
1:30 AM EST
Okay, jdixon (and anyone else who can possibly decipher this).....here's the results and there has very definitely been some underhand work by someone and I think I can guess in which camp the work was done..

Here is the result of running the command: /opt/kde3/bin/kpat in a user (not root) terminal in my openSUSE 11.4 installation and I might add that the kpat patience package was open and running in a matter of a few seconds. (I have put a line space in between each line of the results......otherwise it just ran into one or two lines...the lines as shown below all follow directly on each other.)

Quoting: tony@linux-q9g6:~> /opt/kde3/bin/kpat

kbuildsycoca running...

ASSERT: "i <= nodes" in /usr/lib/qt3/include/qvaluelist.h (376)

tony@linux-q9g6:~>


And here is the result of running the same command in a similar user terminal in openSUSE 13.1.

Quoting: tony@linux-1qby:~> /opt/kde3/bin/kpat

DCOPClient::attachInternal. Attach failed Could not open network socket

kbuildsycoca running...

ASSERT: "i <= nodes" in /usr/lib/qt3/include/qvaluelist.h (377)


You will notice that the sequence stalled and did not eventually return to the line tony@linux-1qby:~> Also, of course, kpat did not open and run.

I'm not a programmer of any sort, but since I absolutely KNOW that the kpat binary package in both cases is the same size and appears to be an identical executable file with the same permissions, my logic suggests that there is another software package somewhere that is telling kpat not to run......but that is purely a guess. However, I have already found that there are a number of binary files in the kde3 directory which include one called "dcop". There are also a number of other files beginning with dcop. I'd say that the "dcop set" in my openSUSE 11.4 setup has "undoctored dcop files", the set in 13.1 has been doctored to ensure kpat doesn't run. Again, that's a guess.

Okay Experts......over to you and see what you can make of the situation.......if anything. And thankyou in advance.
jdixon

Feb 12, 2016
6:19 AM EST
> There are also a number of other files beginning with dcop. I'd say that the "dcop set" in my openSUSE 11.4 setup has "undoctored dcop files", the set in 13.1 has been doctored to ensure kpat doesn't run. Again, that's a guess.

I doubt kpat running or not running had anything to do with the changes made and it was merely an unfortunate side effect, but I agree that something has changed in dcop.

A quick google search reveals that If dcopserver isn't running you will get that error. It's possible that there have been enough changes to kde that dcopserver isn't running or simply isn't compatible with kpat anymore.
nmset

Feb 12, 2016
6:28 AM EST
dcop is no more, all IPC is done via DBus since long. Old apps are not always ported to new frameworks. And it's not wise to spend resources for these kind of apps.
jdixon

Feb 12, 2016
6:38 AM EST
> And it's not wise to spend resources for these kind of apps.

That would be the decision of the individual user or developer involved.

But if dcop isn't being used, then dcopserver probably isn't running. If it still exists you can try starting it and see what happens. I don't know the process for starting it though. It used to start up as part of the kde start up procedure.
Ridcully

Feb 12, 2016
7:09 AM EST
Just for fun, what I thought I might do is take a copy of the complete set of "dcop family" files from my current version of 11.4 in which kpat runs perfectly and copy them over the dcop set in 13.1. It only goes into a kde3 directory so it cannot hurt anything else........it might all just hang together. Can't hurt. I'll have a bash at it tomorrow.

There is something however that really "sticks in my craw", as they say. When I published the original of the article, "KMail Complexity - and a little Patience", the installation of that software package holding kpat in the openSUSE 13.1 repository worked instantly in openSUSE 13.1. Nothing in the package has changed now EXCEPT that kpat won't run. Sorry people, but I find this very, very deliberate on the part of the KDE4 group. Oh sure, I cannot prove anything and I may be totally wrong and in which case I apologise unreservedly, but the gut feeling remains that the source code for the dcop server has been "nobbled". The words "malicious" and "spite" spring to mind......because it is very, very strange that an antique package that worked perfectly one day and has NO other connection with anything else in KDE4, suddenly doesn't work the next day and there is no good reason that it should cease working - it doesn't need any other part of the KDE4 software.. Call me suspicious if you like, but I am thoroughly aware that my set of articles on KMail in KDE4 were not appreciated by the KDE4 team
jdixon

Feb 12, 2016
8:56 AM EST
> Call me suspicious if you like, but I am thoroughly aware that my set of articles on KMail in KDE4 were not appreciated by the KDE4 team

Well, I have no proof that you're not correct, so it's as valid a working theory as mine.

Would it be possible to completely uninstall the current version of KDE4 and install the older version? They should be rpm packages.
CFWhitman

Feb 12, 2016
11:15 AM EST
I'm pretty certain this is just a side effect of switching away from dcop, and it not running automatically anymore. The question would be whether or not you can get the dcop server to run, and if it would cause any problems in the new arrangement. Probably the dcop files that exist would work fine, but since the dcop server element isn't there to attach to, when the client runs, it fails. That is, kpat relies on dcop and includes a dcop client. However, the most recent release of openSUSE doesn't run the dcop server anymore, so when the client runs, it looks for the server, fails to find it, returns an error, and crashes or hangs.

Edit: In fact, I would say there's a fair chance that this isn't related to any recent upstream (KDE) changes at all, but only changes in openSUSE itself. That is, KDE basically dropped dcop when they went to version 4. It has only been run since then to support some KDE 3 applications that were or are still around. As more applications have been updated to KDE 4, it has become less and less necessary. Now, the people at openSUSE have finally decided there aren't enough KDE 3 applications that need it to make it necessary to run anymore. It doesn't seem like getting it to run is that likely to interfere with KDE 4 applications at all, but I'm not sure of everything that may have changed.
jdixon

Feb 12, 2016
12:18 PM EST
> That is, kpat relies on dcop and includes a dcop client. However, the most recent release of openSUSE doesn't run the dcop server anymore, so when the client runs, it looks for the server, fails to find it, returns an error, and crashes or hangs.

That would be my working assumption, yes. Is starting the dcop server as simple as running dcopserver & from the command line? My Slackware box doesn't have dcopserver on it.
Ridcully

Feb 12, 2016
4:01 PM EST
Thanks again jdixon....but no to removing the present version of KDE4. As I said above, I very much like most of KDE4, very much indeed. This really is just a niggling annoyance and I am not going to go into "self-destruct mode" just to prove a point. And thankyou CFWhitman as well, it is very possible that you are right on the target. It is curious though, that as far as I know, the other two patience packages of Lieut Skat and Poker work quite well, rely on dcop or it wouldn't be installed with them, and all the executables of dcop including the dcopserver binary and dcopstart are all in that kde3 binary directory right beside the kpat binary. I don't think it's anything to do with openSUSE 13.1 because the whole thing worked last year and suddenly doesn't this year. Whatever, I'm going to do as I suggested and trial a copy over of the dcop files and see what happens.

I know I was irritated, but this isn't really a big issue. Thanks everybody for tolerating and trying to help an old grumbler who doesn't like his favourite toy being taken away. Oh, and just in case someone from KDE4 is watching this rant, my apologies to you too. In my saner moments I am sure you wouldn't be that petty.
jdixon

Feb 12, 2016
4:11 PM EST
Ricully, what happens if you run dcopstart and then try kpat?
Ridcully

Feb 12, 2016
4:21 PM EST
Thankyou, that's a darn good idea jdixon. I'll give it a whirl later on today and report back. If that is the problem then it's possible a line in the "startup routines" has been deleted - for whatever reason. Oh, and Pysol is still in the openSUSE 13.1 repository and installs and runs perfectly. I don't like it's card decks as much as those of kpat, but again, I can live with them.
Ridcully

Feb 12, 2016
8:35 PM EST
Sad to say it got me nowhere......I even copied across the dcop files from my presently running OS, but again without results. I think it is time to appreciate that whatever has happened has made sure that the old kpat will absolutely not run in openSUSE 13.1, even if it did when I wrote the original article. I suspect CFWhitman is right and somehow the OS has been altered so that the auxillary software needed for kpat is missing or not operational and that is that. Oh well, I'll enjoy using the old kpat on 11.4 and go looking for something I like. It's been an interesting exercise though and I'd like to thank very much all those who weighed in with their suggestions and comments. Many thanks. I have developed a little more patience.......LOL. :-) Though I am sad at losing a great piece of user friendly software.

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