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No longer a KDE fan

Posted by ardchoille on · 22 comments
Ian's Blog; By Ian MacGregor
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KDE used to be a very nice desktop environment for Linux, I remember using it over the years in CentOS, Fedora Core, Kubuntu, Mandriva, and PCLinuxOS. I used KDE 3.5.x in Kubuntu and thought it was the best desktop environment available for the Linux operating system. But what would a new Linux user feel about Linux if KDE 4 were the first environment they attempted to run?

So much is said about KDE 4 but I felt the views of your average, everyday KDE user should be made public. After all, the end user is the most important component in any product.

KDE used to be a very nice desktop environment for Linux, I remember using it over the years in CentOS, Fedora Core, Kubuntu, Mandriva, and PCLinuxOS. I used KDE 3.5.x in Kubuntu and thought it was the best desktop environment available for the Linux operating system. But lately things have gone downhill.

I'll start with Dolphin. The KDE desktop used Konqueror as the default file manager up until KDE4 when the KDE project replaced Konqueror with the Dolphin file manager. Konqueror was a feature-rich file manager that can double as a nice web browser, although not as good as Firefox. It has since been replaced with Dolphin, which is no where near as feature-rich as Konqueror. Why would someone take a feature-rich application out and replace it with an application which doesn't have a comparable set of features? Were the KDE developers bored and needed something to do for the next couple of years? I feel that the KDE developers should have left Konqueror as the default file manager, kept Dolphin out of the release, and written a new web browser comparable to Firefox.. this would have made KDE an even better DE.

Next I'll talk about KControl. KControl was a shell that loaded all configuring modules into one window. This way the user could configure all components of KDE from one place, one window, rather than having to open hundreds of other apps and configure things separately in their respective windows - which can be time-consuming for the end user. It was nice to be able to configure all of KDE from one window, but the KControl shell has been removed. Now the user must open hundreds of other apps and configure things separately in several different windows. Why would the KDE developers make things harder on their users? The System Settings application is nice, but it is a far cry from the features of KControl.

Finally, I must speak out on KDE4 and it's use of the Plasma engine. First of all, software should never leave the developer table until it has been tested and all features work as designed, at least the debian project tries very hard to accomplish this. This simply wasn't the case with KDE 4.0, it was released with many features still unusable and I've never had such a high number of crashes in KDE until I tried using KDE4. Secondly, the developers who wrote the application should know their code, and if they know their code then they know where all the bugs are. If they don't know where all of the bugs are then they have no business writing software for the public. It is not the publics' job to test your code, that responsibility falls to your beta testers - which is not the public at large. There is absolutely no excuse for releasing software in the state that KDE4 was in when it was released. I saw a screenshot of Windows Vista before KDE4 was released and KDE4 looks suspiciously like Vista. If the KDE developers were trying to mimic Windows Vista, then that was a very bad idea. Windows is one of the best examples of bad software development I have ever seen and you couldn't pay me to try and mimic that mess. No, I didn't file any bug reports because that's simply not my job. If the software had been held and tested until everything worked as designed then there wouldn't have been so many problems for the end user to begin with. You're going to have to fix the bugs sooner or later and you can save your end users a lot of frustration by fixing them before the software is released. And, after all, the end user is the most important component in any product. At least in KDE 3.5.x the user could easily change the color/skin of kicker. And I'm still not sure why the KDE project didn't continue development on KDE 3.5.x and work on KDE 4.x at the development table so that KDE 4 could be released in a feature-rich and usable state.

I can only assume that the reason KDE4 was rushed out the door was that the KDE project had an influx of amateur developers who didn't quite understand software development and how their work would affect their users. The one thing you don't want to do is force your users to abandon your software and migrate to another project, but this is exactly what I've seen happening since KDE4 was released. I also abandoned the KDE desktop and switched to the gnome desktop where at least everything works and there weren't any changes requiring me to make drastic changes in the way I use my computers. One of the good things about gnome is that the Nautilus file manager now has a tabbed UI. I'm not sure if Dolphin has a tabbed UI (I couldn't find it anyway) but I know Konqueror did.

If you had to get from point A to point B as quickly and safely as possibly, would you abandon your stealth fighter for a paper airplane? That is, in my opinion, exactly what the KDE project has done. KDE4 is a prime example of why Linux is not more widely used.. this kind of software is simply not worth using. My time is valuable and I cannot waste it fixing bugs and filing bug reports. Can you imagine what a Windows user trying to migrate to Linux would think if KDE4 were the first environment they attempted to use? What would be their overall opinion of Linux? Let's hope the Kubuntu dev team has the sense to fork KDE 3.5.10 and base their once awesome distro on that instead of staying with KDE4.x.

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Comments (22)

2 earlier comments in the full thread.

I've been a kde fan for some years - but the net effect of the push towards kde4 has tranformed me into a gnome user, at least for the present.
I am using Etch at work with KDE 3.5.x, and running FVWM-Crystal on my Ubuntu machine. I am apt-getting kubuntu-desktop right now to see how it is. Ubuntu's gnome is not as bad as it used to be, but I still prefer KDE. My work laptop is running Mandriva with 4.1.2, it's pretty nice and there are several features that I have simply grown to love, particular the folder view on the desktop...or is that available for 3.5.x also?
I just found out that I can make KDE .somethin, look and almost function like GNOME. w00t.

But.... I know in my heart it isn't really GNOME.
Kubuntu's implementation, so far, is far better, more consistent and more stable than Mandriva's...granted, haven't played with it much, but I like it better at this point than I have ever liked Mandriva's (and I liked Mandriva's, don't get me wrong).
I have been using KDE 3.5.9 for a while now and even though I am a big KDE fan and like a lot of what I have seen in 4.0, I really have zero urge to upgrade right now. I have my computer(s) just the way I like it, everything works just the way I want and when I want them too..its love. And I am a happy man. I just don't want to mess with getting 4.0 to do exactly what I want when I already am with 3.5.9.

I need to run a good live distro that has 4.0 on it and mess around with it for a week or two. I think that after the recent updates it is probably worth a good walk through.

Any suggestions on a good distro to check out KDE 4.0 on?

Quoting:Any suggestions on a good distro to check out KDE 4.0 on?


I don't recommend Mandriva 2009.0, unless you are willing to install and hope the updates have improved it.
Try the new Fedora, KDE edition.
Hmmmm.

This strikes me as a problem.

From the pre 1.0 betas, I have moved to every version of KDE that came out well before they went gold.

Nobody -- N-O-B-O-D-Y -- has made KDE 4.x remotely interesting.

I don't see what advantages it brings,but, unlike pre-releases of older versions, it seems to bring the "benefit" of being unstable and not working especially well.

Very disconcerting.



I like KDE 4.1 very much, I've been using it with Mandriva 2009. However, it seems quite shaky, and I've had several issues (like wheel mouse scrolling glitches, and sometimes problems with automatically mounting a USB stick). If they can fix the bugs and the annoyances (such as making it difficult to put quick application launchers on the task bar), it will be a wonderful desktop environment. I still think Mandriva should have stayed with KDE 3.5 for this version.
> Any suggestions on a good distro to check out KDE 4.0 on?

The new version of Slackware is supposed to come with KDE 4. I have no idea when it will be out though. If Patrick ships it, I think you count it at least being stable, if not fully functional.
I was under the impression that you can install KDE 4 on Slackware 12.1.

My favorite KDE 4 desktop is Kubuntu. It's available for either 8.04 or 8.10. I haven't found any reason to choose 4 over 3, but for me at least, KDE 4 looks so much better. I will consider moving to KDE in another year or so.
> I was under the impression that you can install KDE 4 on Slackware 12.1.

It's in current, so in theory you can. It's not a simple process though. You'll have to remove all of the current qt and kde packages and upgrade to the newer ones. There may also be other dependencies involved. Robbie Workman used to have test packages available, but they don't seem to be there anymore.
If I can find out how to install KDE4 on Debian, I'll try it. Can't be that hard, can it?
http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/kde4.html

Already done it, their implementation is great.

One other that I forgot to mention is Arch. They have kdemod which is quite popular among the KDE crowd.
FWIW, I've had good results with using distros (like maybe Slackware?) that you can easily switch back and forth from KDE 3 to KDE 4. Emphasis on the EASY part here! For testing purposes, I can also use liveCD's such as Kubuntu that either have KDE 3 or KDE 4. A single KDE liveCD gets a single session until the next reboot.
> (like maybe Slackware?)

You could probably install both KDE 3.x and KDE 4.x on Slackware, but I'm not sure switching back and forth between would be a simple matter. I believe they use different versions of the same libraries, which would make things difficult.
No, you cannot install both v3 and v4 of KDE on Slackware. In fact, it's even advised that you move /etc/kde and ~/.kde to /etc/kde3 and ~/.kde3, respectively. In the current-testing directory containing the KDE4 packages, there's a README file explaining this, plus a couple scripts handy for ripping out any conflicting packages before switching versions.
> No, you cannot install both v3 and v4 of KDE on Slackware.

Well, you can't install the default packages of both, no. You could probably compile them both yourself and install them into different locations (or possibly just change the root installtion point for the packages). But even if you do that, I don't see any way to switch back and forth between them easily. And the .kde folder problem has bitten people upgrading versions of kde before, so yes, it's a good idea.
Quoting: You could probably compile them both yourself and install them into different locations (or possibly just change the root installtion point for the packages).


And you can juggle lit matches and dynamite at the same time, but you probably don't wanna do that, either. VMs were made for this sort of thing, IMO. I don't think you'd want to be able to switch back and forth, really, you'd stick with one or the other. Try it out virtually or on a live CD, then choose 3 or 4.

My 2c and all that.
> And you can juggle lit matches and dynamite at the same time...

Probably a pretty good analogy, yes. However, as long as the dynamite isn't fused, you should be safe. :)

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