OpenOffice.org and LibreOffice Release Candidates Duke It Out
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Comments (40)
20 earlier comments in the full thread.
It's the Freedom Politics at work here. And I don't want to start any fuss here...that's not my intention but excluding OOXML in LO would be just another bullet in the badly bullet-ridden foot of Linux and FOSS.
LO will be a toolset. If the toolset doesn't work, I am not going to use it and I'm not alone. If I am collaborating with you on a document and I can read it but cannot write to it in a manner that doesn't destroy the document, then my input is destructive.
Crossing one's arms and stomping one's foot in a snit isn't going to produce an application that will compete in the world.
So yea!!!!! Go TEAM!!!
You've "stuck to your principles..."
And produced an office suite that won't do the work it's expected to do. Like it or not, OOXML is "a standard now"
Good job.
LO will be a toolset. If the toolset doesn't work, I am not going to use it and I'm not alone. If I am collaborating with you on a document and I can read it but cannot write to it in a manner that doesn't destroy the document, then my input is destructive.
Crossing one's arms and stomping one's foot in a snit isn't going to produce an application that will compete in the world.
So yea!!!!! Go TEAM!!!
You've "stuck to your principles..."
And produced an office suite that won't do the work it's expected to do. Like it or not, OOXML is "a standard now"
Good job.
> "a standard now"
I think that would more properly be,
a "standard" now
I think that would more properly be,
a "standard" now
> Why single out OOXML for special treatment?
Seriously, because no one implements it. Even the company responsible for it doesn't use it.
But I agree that's no a good enough reason.
Seriously, because no one implements it. Even the company responsible for it doesn't use it.
But I agree that's no a good enough reason.
Quoting:"Just before the end of the year, Larry Gusaas called on the LibreOffice community to refuse to support the writing of OOXML files. Standard OpenOffice.org is able to read such files, but will not write them; that is, according to Larry, how things should be."
Well unfortunately I need thatfunctionality. My only other choice is to stop using LO and OO.o and install MS Office on the Window VM I have.
Larry Gusaas, the best your solution will achieve is less use of LO and more use of MS Office. A things stand I have no need to use M Office and I'd like to keep that money (for the MSO license) out of Microoft's greedy little hands if I posibly can.
Gosh Bob....the next thing is spellign correction...
sheesh
Yeah, you're right...that was quoted clumsily.
You should see me on the dance floor. Something about bulls and china shops come to mind.
"Even the company responsible for it doesn't use it".
It was obviously the pre-meditated flinging of a monkey wrench...TA is right. This is a forced channeling into MS Office.
Like that hasn't been ongoing since time bagan.
sheesh
Yeah, you're right...that was quoted clumsily.
You should see me on the dance floor. Something about bulls and china shops come to mind.
"Even the company responsible for it doesn't use it".
It was obviously the pre-meditated flinging of a monkey wrench...TA is right. This is a forced channeling into MS Office.
Like that hasn't been ongoing since time bagan.
Ken, I wasn't correcting you. I was taking a cheap shot at OOXML.
@ Bob...I know...forgot the winky thingy after I said that. I kinda figured...
TA...did you see this?
Man...it's like a never-ending nightmare.
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/01/21/0145251/Australian-Go...
Man...it's like a never-ending nightmare.
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/11/01/21/0145251/Australian-Go...
Helios, it certainly has distressed me considerably, but with hindsight, I guess I personally am not surprised at all. Australian Governments (in general) still believe (despite crashes, security problems, instability, cost, etc. etc.) that the sun, moon and stars shine out of Redmond and that Windows is the only operating system available that will satisfy their requirements. Therefore a Windows advocated format must be the best there is - it really is as simple as that.
Part of the problem is that massive software structures running on Windows only have been built for our Federal Government, and it would probably be enormously costly to change....For instance the enormous Pharmaceutical system links into every doctor's surgery and every pharmacist store; the ATO has taxation software, again only for Windows. You have to be grateful if a particular government website has not been designed only for IE......I struck that a couple of days ago.
But to return to Microsoft Windows and Governments, I have had personal experience in trying to penetrate the "wall of death" with which Microsoft has protected its software investments in Australian Governments. The IT departments within the various state and federal governments are all run or advised by people who are absolutely dedicated to Microsoft and they ensure that nothing of the FOSS world ever penetrates the minds of the various Departmental Ministers - they don't want to confuse them with an alternative.....Documentation is carefully sanitised so that even if "Linux" as a world actually appears, it is hedged by negatives so that it simply doesn't get a look in.
And these Microsoft "moles" are definitely in place, and get rewarded after making sure that the "right decisions for Microsoft" have been made by the relevant IT section in charge of future directions in computing. One of them became the state director of Microsoft for Queensland - the documentation is amazing when you see it. Microsoft is terrified that Australia might find out about Linux and this is now a no-holds barred area. Indeed, I believe our cousins across the Tasman in New Zealand are more advanced with respect to Linux than we are.
Last but not least, Linux is certainly penetrating Asia and that is one of our biggest markets. We could live, as the Chinese say, in interesting times if we don't start investing in open document formats and in Linux at Government levels, but Microsoft wouldn't like that, so for the moment it certainly won't happen.
Part of the problem is that massive software structures running on Windows only have been built for our Federal Government, and it would probably be enormously costly to change....For instance the enormous Pharmaceutical system links into every doctor's surgery and every pharmacist store; the ATO has taxation software, again only for Windows. You have to be grateful if a particular government website has not been designed only for IE......I struck that a couple of days ago.
But to return to Microsoft Windows and Governments, I have had personal experience in trying to penetrate the "wall of death" with which Microsoft has protected its software investments in Australian Governments. The IT departments within the various state and federal governments are all run or advised by people who are absolutely dedicated to Microsoft and they ensure that nothing of the FOSS world ever penetrates the minds of the various Departmental Ministers - they don't want to confuse them with an alternative.....Documentation is carefully sanitised so that even if "Linux" as a world actually appears, it is hedged by negatives so that it simply doesn't get a look in.
And these Microsoft "moles" are definitely in place, and get rewarded after making sure that the "right decisions for Microsoft" have been made by the relevant IT section in charge of future directions in computing. One of them became the state director of Microsoft for Queensland - the documentation is amazing when you see it. Microsoft is terrified that Australia might find out about Linux and this is now a no-holds barred area. Indeed, I believe our cousins across the Tasman in New Zealand are more advanced with respect to Linux than we are.
Last but not least, Linux is certainly penetrating Asia and that is one of our biggest markets. We could live, as the Chinese say, in interesting times if we don't start investing in open document formats and in Linux at Government levels, but Microsoft wouldn't like that, so for the moment it certainly won't happen.
The reply from John Sheridan sounds a little contrived. Even if it's the simple truth, it demonstrates a simple fact, the Australian Government is a follower, not a leader.
Additionally it's clear that no attempt has been made to determine whether or not a Free Spftware solution can be applied, and in the process save the australian people a sum considerably greater than the $51 Million this man claims his department has saved the Australian Taxpayer (by purchasing Microsoft Licenses at a bulk rebate price)
Clearly there is no attempt at leadership, nor thought for the future (Australia's Future that is). They have simply canvased current software usage, and mandated that based on current usage, that which Microsoft products support is what must be supportable, very neatly making Microsoft products mandatory, in spite of the claims that they do not mandate Microsoft products.
Quoting: i Liam, I am the First Assistant Secretary at AGIMO responsible for this policy.
The new policy does not prefer one vendor over another. It recognises, following extensive consultation across portfolios, that over 99% of government PCs currently use the ECMA-376 standard. This standard has not been chosen exclusively – agencies may also use other formats if they desire. However, to ensure commonality across government, this first iteration of the policy requires that agency desktop environments must be able to read and write ECMA-376. If, over time, due to changes in usage, technology or preferences, another standard is required, the policy can be amended to accommodate such a change.
Readers may also note that this part of the policy affects the manner in which documents are exchanged between agencies. The requirements for accessibility (discussed at some length on our blog) mean that documents available to the public through government websites, etc, are published in alternative formats to ensure the needs of citizens are met. These formats typically include HTML, PDF and RTF.
Additionally it's clear that no attempt has been made to determine whether or not a Free Spftware solution can be applied, and in the process save the australian people a sum considerably greater than the $51 Million this man claims his department has saved the Australian Taxpayer (by purchasing Microsoft Licenses at a bulk rebate price)
Clearly there is no attempt at leadership, nor thought for the future (Australia's Future that is). They have simply canvased current software usage, and mandated that based on current usage, that which Microsoft products support is what must be supportable, very neatly making Microsoft products mandatory, in spite of the claims that they do not mandate Microsoft products.
For Tracyanne: my apologies for jumping in "boots and all" before you responded to Helios and I hope you will accept them.....I just saw red over this one because I have been involved in a situation in Queensland where I obtained extremely strong evidence of how Microsoft works through the Government IT departments and I am afraid my anger got the better of me. Sorry.
After preparing (about a year ago and at his implied interest) a huge package on Linux and FOSS for a key member of the Qld State Parliament together with excellent examples of just how much could be saved and how it would benefit our schools in particular, my colleague and I were "trainsmashed" by the "Qld Government Microsoft IT Department" so that all our work went for nothing. Bitter was not the word.....and it has left a very nasty stench in my nostrils. "Loathing" is too nice a word for my concepts of the ethics of Redmond and its sycophants......Like I said, this is a "no-holds-barred" fight to ensure Australia remains in the Microsoft shed. I think you are absolutely right when you indicate the Aust. Govt. is a follower not a leader. Perhaps if China moves to FOSS our Foreign Minister might get interested ? If he is still there, that is.
After preparing (about a year ago and at his implied interest) a huge package on Linux and FOSS for a key member of the Qld State Parliament together with excellent examples of just how much could be saved and how it would benefit our schools in particular, my colleague and I were "trainsmashed" by the "Qld Government Microsoft IT Department" so that all our work went for nothing. Bitter was not the word.....and it has left a very nasty stench in my nostrils. "Loathing" is too nice a word for my concepts of the ethics of Redmond and its sycophants......Like I said, this is a "no-holds-barred" fight to ensure Australia remains in the Microsoft shed. I think you are absolutely right when you indicate the Aust. Govt. is a follower not a leader. Perhaps if China moves to FOSS our Foreign Minister might get interested ? If he is still there, that is.
Ridcully no worries.
So, with all of this being said, I am supposing there is a reflective sigh of relieve from Down Under that Australian government did not sign massive deployment deals with AOL.
"Australia On Line"?
Or "Australia Overrun with Liquid".
Quoting:Australia On Line
I'm pretty sure there was an "Australia On Line" actually "America On Line" but rebranded for Autralia. I'm pretty sure it no longer exits. I recall that sometime back in the late 1990s I signed up because i needed to get on line fast and they had a free 30 day introductory offer, so I used that. It was trash, and I had to work around the "gateway" (more like access filter) to get at what I wanted. Needless to say I didn't sign up for the service, because I was able to locate a proper ISP, and sign up with them on line.
If that were America On Line you'd still be trying to cancel your service. :)
@mrider, I had the 30 day free trial. What they did after the expiry of the free trial period is their business, and I live in Australia, some of the shenanigans companies can get up to in the US are illigal here.
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Open Source projects have always been great for the openness of their compatibility. That is why linux supports so many filesystem types including NTFS and FAT.
It seems to me that the motivations of the people calling for OOXML to be not supported is driven primarily by spite rather than a belief that the format is unsatisfactory. OpenOffice writes many formats in addition to ODF. Why single out OOXML for special treatment?