Hold Your Horses - We've Only Won a Reprieve
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Comments (40)
20 earlier comments in the full thread.
Total signatures just passed 25,000!
Yep, at 8:31 PM on this date, refresh showed 25,011
People might also want to consider signing this petition https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petition-tool/petition/reduce-te...
Yes, there are a couple there of interest, including one that deals with Acta. At 18K plus change right now. Surprised it hasn't taken the ceiling out.
@skelband and @tracyanne,
Great links, thanks!!! I suspect like helios, though, that Chris Dodd and the other diehard "band of Techno-terrorists" will just go into hiding for awhile in order to regroup and resurface at some later date. I wouldn't even be too surprised if the MPAA and RIAA are praying hard for some clear, U.S.-homeland piracy-racket to arise soon, so that their associated government people can do a HIGHLY-visible bust like that of Megaupload!
2c
Great links, thanks!!! I suspect like helios, though, that Chris Dodd and the other diehard "band of Techno-terrorists" will just go into hiding for awhile in order to regroup and resurface at some later date. I wouldn't even be too surprised if the MPAA and RIAA are praying hard for some clear, U.S.-homeland piracy-racket to arise soon, so that their associated government people can do a HIGHLY-visible bust like that of Megaupload!
2c
Quoting:U.S.-homeland piracy-racket to arise soon, so that their associated government people can do a HIGHLY-visible bust like that of Megaupload!
Which would demonstatrate that existing laws are at least enough.
@tracyanne.
I hear what you are saying. With existing laws being enough to catch the one or two big fish, therefore, most of the smaller fish will fold-down and it won't be worthwhile to go after these.
OTOH, a big piracy bust on U.S. soil can also lead to an entirely DIFFERENT conclusion. If such a homeland big piracy-bust were to occur, then the MPAA and RIAA would come right back and say "Look, government people, we've caught a SINGLE big fish causing X billions of dollars worth of CLEAR damages to our copyrighted works. How MUCH MORE untold financial damages there probably is from all those smaller fish pirating our works!"
The MPAA and RIAA and thir big scary lawyers could then more accurately QUANTIFY in verifiable solid numbers their real and estimated financial losses to piracy both from the big fish and from the small fish. Therefore, in intent and in effect, the MPAA+RIAA could then push through to their associated government people that "existing laws are NOT at least enough". Then it becomes a Napster-like witchhunt all over again!! Just saying that they might try to clamor for this, not that they certainly will :/
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OTOH, a big piracy bust on U.S. soil can also lead to an entirely DIFFERENT conclusion. If such a homeland big piracy-bust were to occur, then the MPAA and RIAA would come right back and say "Look, government people, we've caught a SINGLE big fish causing X billions of dollars worth of CLEAR damages to our copyrighted works. How MUCH MORE untold financial damages there probably is from all those smaller fish pirating our works!"
The MPAA and RIAA and thir big scary lawyers could then more accurately QUANTIFY in verifiable solid numbers their real and estimated financial losses to piracy both from the big fish and from the small fish. Therefore, in intent and in effect, the MPAA+RIAA could then push through to their associated government people that "existing laws are NOT at least enough". Then it becomes a Napster-like witchhunt all over again!! Just saying that they might try to clamor for this, not that they certainly will :/
-fb
A couple of articles worth reading on that subject.
Megaupload Details Raise Significant Concerns About What DOJ Considers Evidence Of Criminal Behavior
Jonathan Coulton Destroys The Rationale Behind The Megaupload Seizure With A Single Tweet; Follows Up With Epic Blog Post
Megaupload Details Raise Significant Concerns About What DOJ Considers Evidence Of Criminal Behavior
Quoting: Yesterday I wrote up a first reaction to the Megaupload case. Having spent some more time going through the indictment in much greater detail, I have some more thoughts and concerns.
First, it's important to acknowledge that the founder of Megaupload, who goes by Kim Dotcom, has a long history of flaunting flouting the law in a variety of ways. That makes him quite unsympathetic in a court. On top of that, there are certain claims in the indictment that, if true, mean it's quite likely that he broke the law. Whether or not the violations amount to racketeering & conspiracy is beyond any analysis that we're going to be able to do here. I would say that I would not be at all surprised if he's found guilty.
Where my concerns come in is in some of the "evidence" that's used to add to the overall indictment. To be clear, in a case like this, the issue is the evidence as a whole, combined to show intent and a general pattern to actions. So the allegations in the indictment don't necessarily mean that any individual action is, by itself, illegal. But, I still worry that some of the specific actions used to paint this picture are (1) potentially taken out of context, (2) are presented in a way that likely misrepresents the actual situation and (3) could come back to haunt other online services who are providing perfectly legitimate services.
Jonathan Coulton Destroys The Rationale Behind The Megaupload Seizure With A Single Tweet; Follows Up With Epic Blog Post
Quoting:Coulton said: "Any other musicians notice that ever since they shut down MegaUpload, the money has just been POURING in?")
And that's the crux of it, isn't it? The DOJ claims that Megaupload's infringement has cost copyright holders a half-billion dollars over an unspecified timeframe. And now that it's been shuttered, the money should start pouring in. But, of course, it won't. So, what then? First off, as Coulton points out, there's bound to be collateral damage.
@tracyanne
Thanks, I missed that one (Jonathan Coulton Destroys The Rationale Behind The Megaupload Seizure With A Single Tweet)
But it's a trend that despite the recent wake-up calls and glaringly "inconvenient" truths over the last few years (not just SOPA/PIPA, but Sub-prime mortgage/Credit Default Swap crises, Eurozone bonds, environmental reviews that clear extra-problematic pipeline projects through the nation's largest (and shallowest?) freshwater aquifer, any number of other examples -- take your pick) fact and reason are steadily declining as a factor in public discourse and public policy. Factoids, ideology and rationalization carry the day.
Clearly it's not the deepest insights, but the deepest pockets that generally prevail, and when by a minor miracle rationality and foresight carry the day, they complain the contest was rigged against them
Major Media Owning SOPA/PIPA Supporters Whine That They Had No Way To Have Their Message Heard
(That's even crazier than how the fossil-fuels industry is complaining that well funded, highly organized environmentalist campaigns are twisting the public process, bank-rolled by and in the service of foreign interests rather than the citizenry.)
If the media had any self respect, they would be openly amused at this nonsense. The fact that they aren't jeering at (and hardly even remarking on) this PR slant is quite telling.
Thanks, I missed that one (Jonathan Coulton Destroys The Rationale Behind The Megaupload Seizure With A Single Tweet)
But it's a trend that despite the recent wake-up calls and glaringly "inconvenient" truths over the last few years (not just SOPA/PIPA, but Sub-prime mortgage/Credit Default Swap crises, Eurozone bonds, environmental reviews that clear extra-problematic pipeline projects through the nation's largest (and shallowest?) freshwater aquifer, any number of other examples -- take your pick) fact and reason are steadily declining as a factor in public discourse and public policy. Factoids, ideology and rationalization carry the day.
Clearly it's not the deepest insights, but the deepest pockets that generally prevail, and when by a minor miracle rationality and foresight carry the day, they complain the contest was rigged against them
Major Media Owning SOPA/PIPA Supporters Whine That They Had No Way To Have Their Message Heard
(That's even crazier than how the fossil-fuels industry is complaining that well funded, highly organized environmentalist campaigns are twisting the public process, bank-rolled by and in the service of foreign interests rather than the citizenry.)
If the media had any self respect, they would be openly amused at this nonsense. The fact that they aren't jeering at (and hardly even remarking on) this PR slant is quite telling.
@Bernard, there are several other really interesting articles linked to that one.
State Of The Union Address Highlights The Dirty Trick Of Hiding More Draconian IP Rules In 'Trade Agreements'
The Tech Industry Has Already Given Hollywood The Answer To Piracy; If Only It Would Listen
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120125/03500717535/hollywood-astroturf-group-releases-ad-saying-it-needs-sopa-to-shut-down-megaupload-five-days-after-megaupload-is-shut-down.shtml
State Of The Union Address Highlights The Dirty Trick Of Hiding More Draconian IP Rules In 'Trade Agreements'
Quoting:One thing that anyone just becoming aware of these fights needs to know: the entertainment industry lobby is very, very good at what they do, and they never put all their eggs in one basket. While they love pushing for ever more draconian federal laws, they're always working multiple angles, including international trade agreements, laws in foreign countries and... state laws around the US, which they can then leverage to get other states to follow suit. If SOPA/PIPA really fails on the federal level, you'll see the same ideas pop up in all of those other places. In fact, we're already hearing stories of such plans in all three things, which we'll be covering in the days and weeks ahead.
The Tech Industry Has Already Given Hollywood The Answer To Piracy; If Only It Would Listen
Quoting:While many in the press have really enjoyed claiming that the SOPA/PIPA fight has been about Hollywood vs. Silicon Valley, we've been pointing out for a while just how silly that is. Months ago, we pointed out that it's a strange "fight" when one side (Silicon Valley) appears to give the other side all the weapons it needs to succeed (only to watch Hollywood then aim those weapons at its own feet). It's been pointed out time and time again that Hollywood has a habit of looking a gift horse in the mouth... and accusing it of piracy, when it later turns out to be the answer to Hollywood's prayers.
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20120125/03500717535/hollywood-astroturf-group-releases-ad-saying-it-needs-sopa-to-shut-down-megaupload-five-days-after-megaupload-is-shut-down.shtml
Quoting:CreativeAmerica, the astroturfing group that pretends it's a "grassroots" operation -- but which is funded by the major Hollywood studios and run by former studio/MPAA execs -- is amazingly inept at communicating with the public, especially considering these guys are supposed to be communications experts. Remember, this is the same group who, while fighting for stronger laws against copying, flat out copied the email of anti-SOPA activists, and changed a few words to push their own pro-SOPA message.
Their latest move is even more bizarre. The group is touting its latest slickly produced propaganda film, insisting that SOPA/PIPA are needed for a variety of reasons -- almost none of which are true. It throws out the bogus claim of jobs being at risk, even though the evidence shows otherwise. But where it gets totally ridiculous is that the video focuses mostly on Megaupload and Kim Dotcom/Schmitz. The point of focusing on Megaupload? To claim that it can't be reached under existing law. Seriously.
I've been reading through linked articles on Tech Dirt, related to SOPA/PIPA, and I found this paiece
The Promo Bay Asks Artists: Would You Rather Fight Piracy... Or Have A Billion People Know You Exist
Interestingly something like that was what I have been thinking about doing, once I get my tunes recorded. Put them on Pirate Bay, and "pirate" my own music. With links back to my own website, for anyone one who might like them enough to pay for them.
The Promo Bay Asks Artists: Would You Rather Fight Piracy... Or Have A Billion People Know You Exist
Quoting:Tim O'Reilly coined the famous saying that obscurity is a much bigger problem than piracy -- and it seems that the folks over at The Pirate Bay have constructed a simple experiment to test this aphorism out. It's called The Promo Bay, and it's a system for letting content creators promote their works on the front page of The Pirate Bay in up to three countries of their choosing (for free, of course). Remember, The Pirate Bay gets a tone of traffic -- over 1.8 billion pageviews per month, apparently. If you're an up-and-coming artist who no one's heard of, at some point it has to be pretty tempting to turn that firehose in your direction... even if it means having works distributed for free. In fact, it seems like artists should be lining up for such a program just to get that kind of traffic. Of course, we've seen some artists do deals with The Pirate Bay before -- to great success. The new program just seems like a away of making that easier for artists... and doing it more often. But it really does seem to be a quick way of asking the obscurity vs. piracy question in a much more direct and very, very real manner.
Interestingly something like that was what I have been thinking about doing, once I get my tunes recorded. Put them on Pirate Bay, and "pirate" my own music. With links back to my own website, for anyone one who might like them enough to pay for them.
Here is an interesting story from a series of articles on the economics of abundance.
History Repeats Itself: How The RIAA Is Like 17th Century French Button-Makers
History Repeats Itself: How The RIAA Is Like 17th Century French Button-Makers
Quoting:"Shortly after the matter of cloth weaving has been disposed of, the button makers guild raises a cry of outrage; the tailors are beginning to make buttons out of cloth, an unheard-of thing. The government, indignant that an innovation should threaten a settled industry, imposes a fine on the cloth-button makers. But the wardens of the button guild are not yet satisfied. They demand the right to search people's homes and wardrobes and fine and even arrest them on the streets if they are seen wearing these subversive goods."
Apparently, it (uploading to Megapload) has been standard practice in some parts of the music business -- and even how they make money.
Quoting: Busta Rhymes Backs Megaupload, Says Record Labels Are The Real Criminals
There's a key point in all of this that we missed in our earlier analysis about paid accounts at Megaupload. In the indictment, the government seems to assume that paid accounts are clearly all about illegal infringing works. But that's not always the case. In fact, plenty of big name artists -- especially in the hip hop world -- use the paid accounts to make themselves money. This is how they release tracks. You sign up for a paid account from services like Megaupload, which pay you if you get a ton of downloads. For big name artists, that's easy: of course you get a ton of downloads. So it's a great business model for artists: they get paid and their fans get music for free. Everyone wins. Oh... except for the old gatekeeper labels.
In fact, this is part of the ecosystem, especially in the hip hop world. It's why the artists also support those hip hop blogs that the RIAA insists are dens of pure thievery. The artists release their tracks to those blogs, knowing they'll get tons of downloads -- and actually get money. If they do deals with labels, they know they'll never see a dime. Putting music on Megaupload is a way to get paid. Working with a gatekeeper is not.
And yet... Megaupload is the criminal operation? Seems like the actual artists know otherwise.
What Busta is pointing out is that services like Megaupload -- while it may be run by some sketchy individuals and probably crossed the legal line in some cases -- are actually a great new business model for artists, while also being the future of distribution. It's a great way to distribute, make money, and let fans get the works for free. And that's why the major labels are so freaked out by cyberlockers. It's not because there's so much infringement on there, but because it's a system whereby artists can get paid and can better distribute their own works to fans... without signing an indentured servitude contract with a label, which never pays any royalties.
Did Megaupload break the law? Perhaps. But it seems clear that the real fear on the part of the RIAA and the major labels is not so much about that. It's the recognition that such a distribution and payment system undermines much of their reason for existing, and takes away their ability to control artists. A smart label would learn to embrace these things. But we're talking about the major labels here, and so instead, they run to the US government -- who clearly knows nothing about the way modern artists monetize and distribute music -- and lets them try to paint a picture of just how "evil" services like Megaupload are.
But the artists know better.
@tracyanne,
LOT of great links and quotes from you and now BernardSwiss! Though I think your main points in all this are steeply degenerating quickly. And you all were doing SO well up to this point.....
-fb
LOT of great links and quotes from you and now BernardSwiss! Though I think your main points in all this are steeply degenerating quickly. And you all were doing SO well up to this point.....
-fb
Quoting:Though I think your main points in all this are steeply degenerating quickly.
In what way?
@tracyanne,
My answer to this Q? In the way that I havent seen you actually MAKE or EVEN CLARIFY many points at all in just over a full day of quotes and links? From Jan 25 04:28 UTC to Jan 26 05:32 UTC.
Although, I must say that all these links and quotes DO make a great reading list for those who want to slog through them all! :)
-fb
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the point was information, which I think I achieved
Yes you did TA....thoroughly.
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Nice.