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KDE: It’s time for a fork
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Comments (70)
50 earlier comments in the full thread.
tracyanne, my point is not that users are complaining about things not working, or being disappointed- they're acting like it's a hanging offense. The venom is unbelievable. I'm almost ready to believe what a poster said in another forum, that it's an organized astroturf campaign to make Linux community look bad.
> The venom is unbelievable.
The venom is utterly believable.
Have you browsed around and seen the reactions of assorted KDE developers?
If I were to summarize, it would seem to be "How DARE YOU not be thrilled with our little God's Gift to Computing."
I realize we should be grateful that unpaid volunteers (which, btw, does not describe all of the KDE developers) would do anything for our benefit, but...
there is such a thing as reciprocal obligation. When you take something on good that is relied on by hundreds of thousands -- maybe millions -- of people, you assume a certain responsibility to treat your task as more than just a "neato project".
I don't see that sense of responsibility in many of the comments I've seen from developers, something which I'm sure fuels many a squirt of venom.
The venom is utterly believable.
Have you browsed around and seen the reactions of assorted KDE developers?
If I were to summarize, it would seem to be "How DARE YOU not be thrilled with our little God's Gift to Computing."
I realize we should be grateful that unpaid volunteers (which, btw, does not describe all of the KDE developers) would do anything for our benefit, but...
there is such a thing as reciprocal obligation. When you take something on good that is relied on by hundreds of thousands -- maybe millions -- of people, you assume a certain responsibility to treat your task as more than just a "neato project".
I don't see that sense of responsibility in many of the comments I've seen from developers, something which I'm sure fuels many a squirt of venom.
We are our own worst enemies with Microsoft coming in a not even close second place. Not that it's an unprecedented event, when MS first took off and claimed its place as the preeminent OS the Unix wars were going on and tearing each other up, so no one noticed the new player until it was to late.
So now as we move into a position where we can start making a credible threat to every aspect of MS's business, we show our roots and turn upon each other once again. Toss in a few Type A personalities, a handful of grade A morons, a seasoning of vocal users and opinionated devs, stir well, and there you are. A lot of scrambled eggs just shy of an omelet.
So now as we move into a position where we can start making a credible threat to every aspect of MS's business, we show our roots and turn upon each other once again. Toss in a few Type A personalities, a handful of grade A morons, a seasoning of vocal users and opinionated devs, stir well, and there you are. A lot of scrambled eggs just shy of an omelet.
So dino, if I understand what you are saying, it could be paraphrased as a "poopyhead smackdown."
Quoting: Toss in a few Type A personalities, a handful of grade A morons, a seasoning of vocal users and opinionated devs, stir well, and there you are.azerthoth, it sure looks that way.
Concur w/ dinotrac. As evidence, I offer the following two links (language warning, and NSFW!):
http://troy-at-kde.livejournal.com/17753.html
http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3535
In fairness, I should quote from the latter:
Be a contributor.
http://troy-at-kde.livejournal.com/17753.html
http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/3535
In fairness, I should quote from the latter:
Quoting:When I say we don't need users, I am talking by definition about people who do not contribute to KDE: they do not report bugs, they do not write documentation, they do not translate, they do not promote...they simply use our software.Even a bug report is a contribution.
Be a contributor.
Fine -
Think what you will.
In most of life, when people screw up, those who rely on their product get a little testy, to say the least.
The KDE devs aren't being unhygienic (so far as I knows) and infecting us with hepatitis or e coli or salmonella. They're not leaving sponges or surgical implements in our bodies. They're not making defective brakes or even tainted dog food.
All right, then. I guess everything is roses and apple dumplings and only the worst kind of gloomy gus could fail to see that.
Think what you will.
In most of life, when people screw up, those who rely on their product get a little testy, to say the least.
The KDE devs aren't being unhygienic (so far as I knows) and infecting us with hepatitis or e coli or salmonella. They're not leaving sponges or surgical implements in our bodies. They're not making defective brakes or even tainted dog food.
All right, then. I guess everything is roses and apple dumplings and only the worst kind of gloomy gus could fail to see that.
I've just downloaded KDE 4 Beta 2, I'm running it on my virtual machine right now. You still can't do anything useful with the new desktop stuff.
There is still no way of changing the configuration of these damned widgets (the giant icon things the KDE devs call plasmoids), in fact the functionality, or lack thereof is exactly the same as Beta 1. In fact the only functionality I can find is that which is available on KDE3 - all the things you can do to windows on KDE 4 are the same things you can do on KDE3. With the exception of the Giant Icons (the plasmoids), and the fact that you can make the desktop background image take up less of the desktop, and the fact that the taks bar is a fixed size, and can't be hidden, the KDE 4 desktop is pretty much the same as the KDE3 desktop.
So what should I report as a bug report?
There is still no way of changing the configuration of these damned widgets (the giant icon things the KDE devs call plasmoids), in fact the functionality, or lack thereof is exactly the same as Beta 1. In fact the only functionality I can find is that which is available on KDE3 - all the things you can do to windows on KDE 4 are the same things you can do on KDE3. With the exception of the Giant Icons (the plasmoids), and the fact that you can make the desktop background image take up less of the desktop, and the fact that the taks bar is a fixed size, and can't be hidden, the KDE 4 desktop is pretty much the same as the KDE3 desktop.
So what should I report as a bug report?
Bug reports: (start with things that don't work)
I hit this [button || icon || menu item || ...] (be specific so they can reproduce the problem, i.e. include all the steps)
I expected this: ...
I got this: ... [for example: "nothing happened", "locked", etc.]
Give a fairly complete description of the hardware of your test machine.
Really important: the OS, version, and in your case what it sits on. The virtual machine software details could be critical, if a process is failing that the developers have seen work under other conditions that could be the key to a possible solution.
Post it where the KDE developers expect flaw reports.
Don't become immediately offended if you see follow ups saying it was solved or "taken care of". That happened to me when I reported a flaw in the Safari 2.0.x browser on the webkit list. I knew it was reproducible, and upon questioning they really meant it was discovered previously and in the new version already corrected.
When I was at most a casual tester of Firefox (pre-release 2.0) I would mention problems I knew most were not encountering and to my surprise saw quick fixes. I was too busy to test 3.0, but I began running from Alpha 1 missing only one that slipped by. I ended at beta 2, because my OS is too old to run the newer betas.
Work with the KDE people and they may skew it towards your preferences.
I hit this [button || icon || menu item || ...] (be specific so they can reproduce the problem, i.e. include all the steps)
I expected this: ...
I got this: ... [for example: "nothing happened", "locked", etc.]
Give a fairly complete description of the hardware of your test machine.
Really important: the OS, version, and in your case what it sits on. The virtual machine software details could be critical, if a process is failing that the developers have seen work under other conditions that could be the key to a possible solution.
Post it where the KDE developers expect flaw reports.
Don't become immediately offended if you see follow ups saying it was solved or "taken care of". That happened to me when I reported a flaw in the Safari 2.0.x browser on the webkit list. I knew it was reproducible, and upon questioning they really meant it was discovered previously and in the new version already corrected.
When I was at most a casual tester of Firefox (pre-release 2.0) I would mention problems I knew most were not encountering and to my surprise saw quick fixes. I was too busy to test 3.0, but I began running from Alpha 1 missing only one that slipped by. I ended at beta 2, because my OS is too old to run the newer betas.
Work with the KDE people and they may skew it towards your preferences.
Good advice, TxtEdMacs. Bug reports are filed here: http://bugs.kde.org/
Yes you have to register. Just like for virtually all bug trackers.
But it works, it just doesn't have any of the functionality I was lead to believe would be there. So what do I file as a Bug report?
Simple, fill in the function, cite the source that made you expect it and ask why it was not implemented.
I expected this (functionality)
I got (not the functionality expected)
I expected this (functionality)
I got (not the functionality expected)
I'll give it a go.
I'm not sure I recognize the guy's name but one of the KDE devs quit. I am assuming it was over this bloodbath but then I've made some fairly silly assumptions lately.
Oh...and far be it from me to ever take a thread off topic...
Talking about the kickedbutt menu...oh, sorry; the kickoff menu, it reminds me of a reaction I got from a seasoned KDE user not too long ago. Every time I set up a new kde environment, I set two panels. One regular panel at bottom and one set to "tiny" at top. I build a set of system trays for the one on top, grouping the apps I use most into clusters. I also keep my dictionary field up there as well. Now on the bottom, and usually down close to the clock, I right click the panel, click "add applet" and put a "run command" field in there. It's pretty slick. You can type the app name, hit enter and you don't touch the menu. You can type "gg:remember no space between the colon" and hit enter. It opens a google tab with your search results. Want to search google images? Type ggi:picture of you not putting any space betwen the colon". It functions too as an alt-f2 button basically but I used to be able to actually get it to function as a terminal.
I would type in something like man amarok and it opens a terminal window with that already working. What's extra nice is that it remembers your previous commands in a dropdown so if you are using say, Gimp several times a day and don't have an icon set up for it, you can just execute it from a previous use in the run command. I use yakuake now so I don't open too many terminals.
For all the drama and controversy in the kde dev community now, they've sure done some nice work for us. Agreed...it was not correctly released (kde4) but you watch...they'll get it straightened out and kde4 will be better for the experience, and thusly so will we. I just hope too many egos and feelings are not terminally damaged in the process.
h
Oh...and far be it from me to ever take a thread off topic...
Talking about the kickedbutt menu...oh, sorry; the kickoff menu, it reminds me of a reaction I got from a seasoned KDE user not too long ago. Every time I set up a new kde environment, I set two panels. One regular panel at bottom and one set to "tiny" at top. I build a set of system trays for the one on top, grouping the apps I use most into clusters. I also keep my dictionary field up there as well. Now on the bottom, and usually down close to the clock, I right click the panel, click "add applet" and put a "run command" field in there. It's pretty slick. You can type the app name, hit enter and you don't touch the menu. You can type "gg:remember no space between the colon" and hit enter. It opens a google tab with your search results. Want to search google images? Type ggi:picture of you not putting any space betwen the colon". It functions too as an alt-f2 button basically but I used to be able to actually get it to function as a terminal.
I would type in something like man amarok and it opens a terminal window with that already working. What's extra nice is that it remembers your previous commands in a dropdown so if you are using say, Gimp several times a day and don't have an icon set up for it, you can just execute it from a previous use in the run command. I use yakuake now so I don't open too many terminals.
For all the drama and controversy in the kde dev community now, they've sure done some nice work for us. Agreed...it was not correctly released (kde4) but you watch...they'll get it straightened out and kde4 will be better for the experience, and thusly so will we. I just hope too many egos and feelings are not terminally damaged in the process.
h
> but you watch...they'll get it straightened out and kde4 will be better for the experience,
I expect you're correct. I'm just not sure how long that's going to take. From the current status, I'd guess KDE 4.3 or 4.4. Fortunately, I mostly use XFCE, so it doesn't really affect me.
I expect you're correct. I'm just not sure how long that's going to take. From the current status, I'd guess KDE 4.3 or 4.4. Fortunately, I mostly use XFCE, so it doesn't really affect me.
Ok so I've put in a report that pretty much says what I've been saying. We'll see what sort of response I get.
I also posted a response of my own concerning a backlash against one of the developers of KDE for voicing their frustration. It's like a person can't let off some steam and let others know how they feel. Then the "ungratefuls" come out in droves to mow 'em down. Yeah boys and girls.... real mature there (note: the comment does not include the members of this forum).
Ok I have an answer to one of my questions:
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2007/07/desktop-zooming.html http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Plasma/FAQ#What_is_the_Zoom...
I don't buy the use cases, as I see no good use for icons on my desktop, be they traditional icons or the new giant plasmoid icons.
But that is the answer to my question.
http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2007/07/desktop-zooming.html http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Plasma/FAQ#What_is_the_Zoom...
I don't buy the use cases, as I see no good use for icons on my desktop, be they traditional icons or the new giant plasmoid icons.
But that is the answer to my question.
Tracy,
Everyone hates KDE 4.x ... [url=http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3757241/KDE 4.1 Beta 2: Two Steps Forward, One Step Back.htm]http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3757241/KD...[/url]
Or at least he [says] so.
Have to stop here, spilled coffee on the keyboard. Shutting down and dying out. Over and out.
[edit in the brackets]
Everyone hates KDE 4.x ... [url=http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3757241/KDE 4.1 Beta 2: Two Steps Forward, One Step Back.htm]http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3757241/KD...[/url]
Or at least he [says] so.
Have to stop here, spilled coffee on the keyboard. Shutting down and dying out. Over and out.
[edit in the brackets]
Byfield is wrong, at least where this user is concerned, It appears that I may have to wait until at least 4.2, as I understand a reply I received ftom Aaron Seigo, before I see any of the exciting functionality I've been looking forward to.
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I don't have a problem with that, in fact I was quite excited when I read about their intentions to do so.
I don't have a problem with that, their stated intentions seemed quite exciting, when originally published.
Except that neither works as claimed, even in the 4.1 Beta, where, so it is claimed by various KDE devs, that one can already do a lot of really exciting things... one cannot. At the very least that is disappointing.
That is expected. Why would anyone complain about that?