Linux - Stop holding our kids back

If this is handles right, it could be a great chance to evangelise Linux.

At the very least this teacher is going to lose a lot of respect from her students, as they discover that her feet are made of sand, and not something even as substantial as clay.

Go well armed Ken. Take lots of supporting evidence, of the type this teacher should have discovered, had she researched. Be sure to be in contact with the parents of the child in question to reinforce the message you originally gave them.

There were some great comments on the post. Including from an actual Mandriva Rep. I found it interesting that all the negative posts were anonymous....

I remember, many years ago when my kids were young, confronting this sort of ignorance from someone who called themselves a , "teacher." In that case, the class had been discussing where their families had come from. We were in California and one of my kids had said they were a fifth generation native Californian. The teacher quickly piped up that, "no one's family could have been in California for that long." Again, armed with no facts, not willing to find out, that teacher merely used her authority to degrade a kid who was stating a fact.

Remembering back to when I was a kid, closed minded teachers such as that, led me to quit school in my eleventh year. No challenge, no "learning." Just repeating back what a teacher believed. It took me several years and a stint in the military, before trying it again and finishing college with honors. Why? Somewhere in college, I discovered that "learning" is not merely accepting established "belief," disguised as "fact."

Teachers such as this one Ken encountered need to be put out to pasture. They don't "teach." They merely draw a paycheck, while imposing their perceptions on students, whether true or false.

Ken sure attracts the nutballs. How can anyone who has ever attended school doubt that these things happen? I still remember how my third grade teacher insisted that horses always slept standing up, and when they lay down it meant they were ill. Now I could almost excuse such determined ignorance if we had been in some giant city, but this was Pendleton, Oregon, and there were horses all over the place. Anyone with eyes could see horses lying down to snooze all the time.

My third grade teacher wouldn't let me use my left hand to write with because it was "The Devil's Hand" and she would hit me on the hand with her ruler. I had to have my Mom come down because the Principle refused to believe me.

Believe it or not I was the only southpaw at that school at the time...small town..don't ask..lol!

Scott

Scott, my kindergarten teacher did a similar thing to me, though she never hit me. So now I write with my right hand. Though I am not to bad with my left.

And you both still have devil hands.

I'm still a southpaw (and it was not because of her) but I have always been a little ambidextrous.

I played Alto and Tenor Sax, Cello, Bass and Guitar all naturally right handed but the drums (which I have played 22 years now) I cannot. I have to play the drum-kit left handed otherwise I sound like I should not be playing...lol.

There are a lot of other things I could add but why bore you with the details of my "Evil Hand"

;-)

Listen here young lady!

I will have you know that I am equally evil across the entirety of my being...wait a second..

did I just say that out loud?

;-)

Maybe we shouldn't get too specific on evil body parts.

Quoting:And you both still have devil hands.

Yes, I am very grateful that amputation of student hands had been outlawed by the time I went to school.

I shoot pool and throw a Frisbee better left handed, though I don't do either very well with either hand.

Aren't barratry and theft illegal?...

@Scott_R 1010011010

> ...though I don't do either very well with either hand.

I'm always tell people I'm somewhat ambidextrous: I do most things equally poorly with either hand. :)

I guess now I should stop wondering why so many of the kids around here are ignorant if that is typical of the quality of teachers we've got in the Austin area...

Shheeeesh.

And Scott -- you weren't the only one that had that happen to them. I'm not left handed, but I am close to ambidextrous and I sometimes just spontaneously do something left handed out of sheer laziness to move things to my right hand, etc... When I was in grade school (also in a small town) there were teachers who would do the same thing if they saw you doing something left handed -- whack you across the knuckles of the left hand with a ruler. And the poor kids who really were "sinister" (no kidding, the latin word for left-handed) were openly ridiculed and made to use the crappy round nosed scissors with green plastic coated handles and the backwards desks...

Yeah, My Kindergarten Teacher tried to convince my Mom I was retarded because I couldn't cut stuff out very well.

My Mom asked her if she knew I was a lefty...blank stare from Teacher..

Next day I had my own set of "special" scissors and I wasn't retarded anymore...

I think.

;-)

like I said, the only southpaw in the whole town...ugh.

Quoting:Aren't barratry and theft illegal?...

Can't sue her for stealing licenses though; something which would have been possible if those disks contained Microsoft software.

> if that is typical of the quality of teachers we've got in the Austin area...

It's not Austin, it's public schools in general. How anyone thinks that "school" has anything to do with education is beyond me. Haven't they read the works of the people who _designed_ the public school system?

The stated purposes of the public school system were to create a mass of semi-literate factory workers and obedient foot soldiers, and ensure that they were all indoctrinated into standardized state-approved values.

Remember the old saw, "The A students go into research, and the B students end up working for the C students." So where is the room for individual accomplishment?

Oooh, there it is, over in the elite private schools that the elite send their own kids to, a-la _Scent Of A Woman_ and _The Emperor's Club_.

jdixon -

If you'll note, that is a logical summation of aysiu's reasoning.

I agree that it's total bull, even while I readily accept the presence of head case teachers -- having encountered them.

I absolutely believe that many teachers possess the dedication to go above and beyond for their kids.

If you think about it, the teacher in Ken's piece was more likely misinformed than a head case. Lots of people share that misperception. She was actually showing an admirable, if misguided, dedication.

> If you'll note, that is a logical summation of aysiu's reasoning.

It appears to be yes. I also understand that the fact that you're summarizing someone else's point doesn't necessarily mean you agree with it. I'm sorry if it came across otherwise.

And I have no reason t doubt Ken's story, having met enough incompetent teachers myself. But aysiu would brand them all with the same iron, which I know from personal experience isn't the case.

In spite of the temptation, I've tried not to make any judgments about this particular teacher, as we can't know all the details of the situation, and we have no idea how things will turn out once the facts are explained to her.

Yes, there are good teachers in "the system".

There were good Germans in "the Reich" too.

> There were good Germans in "the Reich" too.

The fact that I know of and appreciate some good teachers doesn't blind me to the faults of the system, Bob. You're preaching to the choir. My wife and I haven't had any children, but one of the ground rules we both agreed to before we got married was "no public schools".

Quoting: we have no idea how things will turn out once the facts are explained to her.

It would have been nice to give her that chance before siccing the entire Internet on her.

> It would have been nice to give her that chance before siccing the entire Internet on her.

a) Ken's blog is not normally that widely read, and the matter is of interest, especially to the families to which he gives computers. If receiving such a computer may cause problems with school teachers for the children, the families deserve to know about it.

b) The letter was rude, insulting, and threatened legal action. An over-reaction is understandable. In fact, given the threat of legal action, I'm not even convinced it was an over-reaction. I'm willing to Ken the benefit of a doubt in this matter too.

> one of the ground rules we both agreed to before we got married was "no public schools".

Private schools aren't any better, unless you're ready to pay for the kinds of schools featured in _Scent of a Woman_ and _The Emperor's Club_.

Don't let anyone tell you homeschooling doesn't work. It does take effort and self-discipline to do something _every_day_, but the rewards are fantastic. My daughter is 5, reading real books for pleasure and is doing simple multiplication and division (albeit slowly, practice practice).

I've shown her how algebra and long division work, so she understands that even big problems can be done with lots of little, easy steps. This has given her quite a bit of confidence "facing the future" as it were.

Her favorite game right now is _Battle for Wesnoth_. She has done much more research within the game than I, she knew how to find what the upper level characters looked like, and their strengths and weaknesses. Echoes of me and D&D such a long, long time ago.

Bob -

Home schooling can be a fantastic option for many. Our first two daughters were home-schooled for at least part of their education.

Good for kids, good for parents.

I was fortunate to attend all small private schools attached to the churches we were at, with dad in some position in the church or school. I even had my mom as a teacher in junior high (she taught junior high Math and English for a while - *shudder*). I was fortunate enough to have great teachers. My high school science and math teacher was working on his doctorate while I was there.

I was basically self home schooled. I found high school so unbelievably boring, that I just read up on stuff for myself. I never did the home work they set us, and only marginally involved myself in class, gaining myself a reputation as a trouble maker, but I passed all my end of year exams every year.

Bob, you know what's the usual opposition to home-schooling, right? This will make your kids socially impaired! No contact with peers! No socialising with bullies and envious jerks! [OK, I made the last one up. Sorry.]

Actually, one of my [female] friends is quite certain that I'm a shy, introverted geek because I didn't go to kindergarten.

Yeah, right.

Home school is great. We did it with all three kids. Now we have a lawyer, a nurse and a game playing slacker! One out of three is good, eh?

Quoting: One out of three is good, eh?

The game playing slacker?

:P

Oh yeah! Gotta game. w00t

Friends, please be aware that the first ColonelPanik post in this thread was sarcasm. At least I think it was.

> Private schools aren't any better,

We planned on home schooling.

> Now we have a lawyer, a nurse and a game playing slacker!

If you capitalize slacker, then it has some good points. :)

Thats what we want to do, capitalize on the slacker. So far, not to good.

There's always hope the slacker will get an interest in game programming....

Colonel:

Slacker = Slackware user. :)

Slackware user? In the Panik family? Maybe... after TC gets a Mac and TA starts running Ubuntu?

O dear, should I tell him..........just kidding.

response from k :

Quoting:Putting down all public school teachers for one teacher's stupid mistake? I am a teacher in AISD and I work amazing and talented people who care a lot about their students, no matter what we get paid. And yes, people make mistakes. I find this one funny, too. I do not, however, think it's a testament to all teachers being unintelligent.

http://austinist.com/2008/12/10/aisd_teacher_throws_fit_over...

@henke:

That's not a reply to Helios but to one of the other commenters. Also, it is nowhere mentioned that this "k" is the Karin that wrote the letter to Helios.

Here is the post that "k" replied to:

Quoting:"When your a kid in public school you're lucky to be in contact with 2 teachers a day worth anything. If you had to be intelligent and capable the job would pay more than it does."

This whole thing has gotten out of hand, Ken opened his mouth before he should have and now everything he put in his post is not even true anymore..

And now a Teacher's reputation is ruined..I don't like it at all. It never should have been dragged out into the public like this...

Thanks Scott, I was just getting ready to say something similar. It has gotten out of hand, and now every cheesy sleazy "tech reporter" is all over getting cheap hits from it. "Karen" was never a given a chance. Everyone makes mistakes, and I'm getting pretty [expletive deleted] tired of being part of a community that goes ballistic over every little mistake, and gleefully fires the nukes for every minor transgression, which is all the time because everything is a transgression.

I'm not too proud of my own self, as I contributed my share of snarks. This is not a good day for the so-called Linux community.

Yeah, My editorial comment I want to take down..but I won't. I deserve for it to be there.

Its almost as if, in a sad way, Ken's title has become true.. :-(

> And now a Teachers reputation is ruined...

I wouldn't go that far. This is a tempest in a teapot, and will blow over in a few days, as most Internet tempests do.

Ken's response was perfectly appropriate as a private response, as is his taking the matter to a supervisor. Going public with it was probably a mistake, to put it mildly.

It's a tempest in a teapot to everyone but the teacher.

I think Ken went too far in a couple of areas... First was bringing in the NEA into the issue. While I personally hate unions, and the NEA in particular, this is not the appropriate time to fight them. Second, the whole tone of his response was unecessarily defensive, combative and immature. While some of that was justified because the original letter was itself moronic and offensive, I believe Ken would have been better to take a higher road. That said, Ken sometimes reminds me of myself 10-20 years ago. Since then I've made efforts to try to be more calm and diplomatic. Here is hoping that age will bring more wisdom and eloquence to Ken without diminishing his energy.

Quoting:"For whatever reason, this story took on a life of its own. By 10:30 AM, I had to turn my cell phone off. Poeple were getting my number from my business website and calling me with their comments and reactions.

Not all of them were particularly on my side.

I received calls from South Africa, The Netherlands, Croatia, The Land Down Under and Russia.

It's the one from New Zealand that bothered me the most.

The caller identified himself and then further identified himself as an editor for a well known magazine published in the UK. He was extremely to-the-point with his call.

He would donate $1000.00 immediately to The HeliOS Project if I would give him the name of the Teacher I blogged about.

I hung up the phone.

http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/character-assasination...

Good move on Ken's part. It's not about harassing some teacher just because she's clueless and aggressive in her misdirected vitriol towards her students.

Yeah, with advocacy like this Microsoft doesn't need to lift a finger. The comments are horrible, what a bunch of vindictive dorks. "Love Linux or Be Punished!!" is the message. Thanks a lot gang, you can't buy that kind of negative advertising.

**edit** I should mention that Ken goofed and then tried to do the right thing and make amends, cool beans, hurrah. It's the firestorm of hateful comments that's keeping me bugged, geez, what is wrong with people? Are they all MS astroturfers, or just hateful dorks with nothing better to do?

TC -

Yes. Really sad when you consider the roll that Linux is on. I've been seeing jobs open up for "Open Source Strategists" in companies, and free software used hither and thither.

FOSS is going places. It's winning battles and soldiering on bravely in the war.

In that sort of military analogy, dimwit dorks should be viewed as traitors --

converts come from those who aren't already in the fold. Demonizing them keeps them out of the fold, effectively firing a shot for the other side.

I'd be hypocritical to not say that this hasn't been good for our community (given that I say the same thing about BN all the time).

The new post fills in some details not found in the original. The teacher was doing the things she was supposed to do. She may not be up to date on Linux, but she was trying to protect the students. If my son finds himself in a similar situation I only hope that there is a teacher such as Karen to make sure he is not doing things he shouldn't.

I don't know that the original post was a mistake (except the parts about the union) but this just further cements my view that the FOSS community needs to ask the question "so what does this mean" before jumping to conclusions.

Quoting:..but this just further cements my view that the FOSS community needs to ask the question "so what does this mean" before jumping to conclusions...

If only that would happen. The problem is there are way too many immature people out there, ready to add their often thoughtless, rude, unnecessary, and often just plain wrong, 3 h'pence worth. The number of people who castigated this teacher on her spelling, simply amazed me- it was a friggin typo for TOS violation sake. Do none of the dimwits never make typos?

> there are way too many immature people out there

I think that partially this is the type of people (geeks) but more than that, those who speak the loudest are often new to the community. They're just a little more passionate than the average Linux user. There's just too much concern that Microsoft will take away the good thing we have going, that they think the sky is falling no matter how minor the incident. Understandable, but inappropriate.

Quoting: Do none of the dimwits never make typos?

Of course not. Those are on purpose to show they're cool.

@TC: s/cool/kewl/

s/kewl/l33t

s/Hey, that's funny!/lol