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Windows you done stole my netbook market away: Linux
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Comments (63)
yeah yeah, more stream-of-consciousness
Those puppies that were in your article about thanksgiving I guess?
Please send them greetings from The Netherlands, where there probably won't be snow this Christmas.
(When will Band Aid sing a song 'bout us?).
Nonetheless I prefer our own two 'dachshund's. Wy the h*ll is that by the way one of the only German words the English speaking nation hasn't figured out its own word for?
BTW I'm not the only one, a certain "Sarah Vessels" which most LXerers should know is also into Dachshunds, though her new site doesn't show them anymore.
Peace, Moi
BTW2: What did you eat today? Really eager to find out!
Nonetheless I prefer our own two 'dachshund's. Wy the h*ll is that by the way one of the only German words the English speaking nation hasn't figured out its own word for?
BTW I'm not the only one, a certain "Sarah Vessels" which most LXerers should know is also into Dachshunds, though her new site doesn't show them anymore.
Peace, Moi
BTW2: What did you eat today? Really eager to find out!
Arrggghhhh lassie, tis the truth you speak, Puppy Linux, Trekkie Linux, Demento Linux!
Gonzo Klingons writing fud pieces. Dogs in the snow! Yeah thats cool.
MSCertifiedGonzoJournalists (MSCGJ)
MSCertifiedGonzoJournalists (MSCGJ)
Mind you if it's not true, then all the journalistic pieces stating that it is won't change the facts.
What?? Journalism doesn't change facts?
Man that means I have to go back to what I thought before.
Man that means I have to go back to what I thought before.
Quoting:I am so terribly bored with poor journalism and dumb opinion pieces backed up by nothing, though I am grateful to LXer for having a comprehensive feed that covers the entire spectrum from dung to sterling. Nice work, Scott, we are lucky to have you.
Believe me, there are all kinds of dribble out there that never make it to our newswire. But sometimes there is dribble that needs to be called out for what it is and I know that if I post it to the LXer newswire it will be exposed for what it truly is.
Like I have said many times, to be truly informed you have to know what the news is, and what is trying to pass itself off as news too..
Quite right, Scott.
Yes Hans, those very same adorable, smartest in the world dogs. For those of you in need of some cute critter pics look here: http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2008112603035OSCY
Oh and Hans, what's wrong with German words? Like my last name?
;)
Yes Hans, those very same adorable, smartest in the world dogs. For those of you in need of some cute critter pics look here: http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2008112603035OSCY
Oh and Hans, what's wrong with German words? Like my last name?
;)
@TC, Cool, loved the horse!
>> Nonetheless I prefer our own two 'dachshund's. Wy the h*ll is that by the way one of the only German words the English speaking nation hasn't figured out its own word for?
What? You mean wiener dogs?
What? You mean wiener dogs?
heh, that's a popular photo, Colonel. I could probably sell it on postcards or something. Ironically, that was my crotchety horse who knew where all the low branches were.
@Scott - dribble or drivel? (The drivel dribbles...)
This is very true here in Australia
32 earlier comments in the full thread.
@alc: That's the Meso. It comes with 512MB of RAM. I valued the extra memory over the bigger hard drive. I also wanted the 7" screen and the lighter weight and smaller size. The Meso has an 8.9" screen and is larger. IME the difference in performance, particularly with multimedia apps, can be huge between 512MB and 1GB of RAM.
The OLPC does what it was made to do!
There may not have been a "netbook" market if it wasn't
for the OLPC XO.
Ok, I just can't keep my mouth shut any longer. This conversation is killing the cat that has my tongue. ;-)
I have been in contact with several people from the OLPC for a little while now and I was offered a new XO to borrow, use and do my own review of it. I have only seen XO's at the trade shows I have attended and only had been able to stand in front of one for a moment of two.
Now I will have a whole lot more than that...
I have a lot of ideas I want to explore with it and it will be nice to have the time to try them out.
Don't worry, I have zero intention of running or reviewing how XP runs on it. I keep hearing about all the cool stuff Sugar can do and I really want to check it out.
Regardless of how we all feel about people being able to order XO's with Windows on them; the purpose of the project is a noble one. Being able to make a laptop that can do the things it can do for such a small price has as others have pointed out, impacted the laptop market in a big way already.
I have been in contact with several people from the OLPC for a little while now and I was offered a new XO to borrow, use and do my own review of it. I have only seen XO's at the trade shows I have attended and only had been able to stand in front of one for a moment of two.
Now I will have a whole lot more than that...
I have a lot of ideas I want to explore with it and it will be nice to have the time to try them out.
Don't worry, I have zero intention of running or reviewing how XP runs on it. I keep hearing about all the cool stuff Sugar can do and I really want to check it out.
Regardless of how we all feel about people being able to order XO's with Windows on them; the purpose of the project is a noble one. Being able to make a laptop that can do the things it can do for such a small price has as others have pointed out, impacted the laptop market in a big way already.
@CP, we're not quite ready, but... http://www.feral-penguin.com.au/
tracyanne: Wow. Nobody ever listened to me before, sure hope this isn't another
one of my dumb ideas?
You have partnered with a good outfit, you have a way cool name. Best of luck to ya.
You have partnered with a good outfit, you have a way cool name. Best of luck to ya.
We've been working on this for quite a while.
My Sylvania g netbook arrived today. First impression: a very cool little box. Surprisingly fast, very lightweight, not quite as small as I'd pictured it, a keyboard I can actually touch type on, and generally excellent ergonomics. The widescreen aspect ratio means that even though it's called a 7" display it's actually a fair amount bigger (as in wider) than the display on my old Libretto. Text at the default 800x480 resolution is very easy to read the way most apps are setup out of the box.
I'm not at all sure about gOS. I'm not into Google Gadgets and otherwise it's an Ubuntu 8.04.1 rehash. If I want to run Ubuntu I'll run Ubuntu or more likely Xubuntu. I plan on trying a few other distros on it. It's got an old fashioned conventional hard drive so there's enough room to dual boot for a while. It also has a slot for various memory card type thingies (like SD cards) and USB ports so I can add SSD storage as well. I can boot from pretty much anywhere (USB, internal hard drive, memory card slot) which makes it awfully easy to try out as many distros as I want.
One nice touch lacking on some of the more popular netbook models is that the battery isn't integrated into the unit. It's removable and easy to swap just like most larger laptops. A spare battery is now top of my wish list.
Oh, and it has a DVI port for external video and comes with a DVI to VGA adapter. I've used similar adapters (opposite genders) to allow a nice SGI or Sun monitor to work with a PC. I wonder if a really nice, big SGI monitor would be plug and play with this thing :)
I'm not at all sure about gOS. I'm not into Google Gadgets and otherwise it's an Ubuntu 8.04.1 rehash. If I want to run Ubuntu I'll run Ubuntu or more likely Xubuntu. I plan on trying a few other distros on it. It's got an old fashioned conventional hard drive so there's enough room to dual boot for a while. It also has a slot for various memory card type thingies (like SD cards) and USB ports so I can add SSD storage as well. I can boot from pretty much anywhere (USB, internal hard drive, memory card slot) which makes it awfully easy to try out as many distros as I want.
One nice touch lacking on some of the more popular netbook models is that the battery isn't integrated into the unit. It's removable and easy to swap just like most larger laptops. A spare battery is now top of my wish list.
Oh, and it has a DVI port for external video and comes with a DVI to VGA adapter. I've used similar adapters (opposite genders) to allow a nice SGI or Sun monitor to work with a PC. I wonder if a really nice, big SGI monitor would be plug and play with this thing :)
Quoting:Text at the default 800x480 resolution is very easy to read the way most apps are setup out of the box.
Only 480 high? That would make me feel cramped. My boss gave me a 21" 1440x900 widescreen display once. I used it for an hour and went back to my 19" 1280x1024 display just to get the extra 124 pixels vertical resolution.
Perhaps it's because I am a programmer though. If I have the money I'd love to buy a HD monotor (1920x1280) and attach it rotated so that I have 1280 horizontal resolution and 1920 vertical. I love seeing a good chunk of a website or a large amount of code in a single view.
> Only 480 high?
That's the internal display, If it's llike the Eee (it sounds like the same display as the original Eee), it can supposedly do 1600 x1280 with an external monitor.
That's the internal display, If it's llike the Eee (it sounds like the same display as the original Eee), it can supposedly do 1600 x1280 with an external monitor.
Quoting:That's the internal display
I know. I simply prefer more. Even my normal laptop has 1050 vertical resolution (not a typo, it's an odd-sized 1440x1050). I've seen netbooks with 1280x800. That would probably be the minimal height I'd find workable.
The Toshiba Libretto U205 supports 1600x1280 on a 7" display. I can't imagine looking at that for very long.
Yes, the Sylvania g supports 1600x1280 externally. I don't remember what the Eee uses for a video chipset but this thing uses a Via UniChrome Pro CX700M2. If you have the latest Via drivers (now Open Source) it should work well with any distro. The latest openChrome drivers should work as well but I haven't tried that. The big issue with older drivers is broken 3D acceleration.
Anyway, day two with the machine and I'm really happy with it. gOS definitely has to go, though.
Yes, the Sylvania g supports 1600x1280 externally. I don't remember what the Eee uses for a video chipset but this thing uses a Via UniChrome Pro CX700M2. If you have the latest Via drivers (now Open Source) it should work well with any distro. The latest openChrome drivers should work as well but I haven't tried that. The big issue with older drivers is broken 3D acceleration.
Anyway, day two with the machine and I'm really happy with it. gOS definitely has to go, though.
"Anyway, day two with the machine and I'm really happy with it. gOS definitely has to go, though."
Would you say the build quality is good overall?I'm still looking at the one I linked to http://www.justnetbooks.com/shop.php?c=Sylvania7&x=Sylvania&... It has 1 gig of ram and comes with Ubuntu.I'm a KDE person,but it's for my wife and she's willing to put up with something other than KDE.
Would you say the build quality is good overall?I'm still looking at the one I linked to http://www.justnetbooks.com/shop.php?c=Sylvania7&x=Sylvania&... It has 1 gig of ram and comes with Ubuntu.I'm a KDE person,but it's for my wife and she's willing to put up with something other than KDE.
@alc: Yes, I am very impressed with the build quality. From what I understand the g Meso is a rebranded MSI Wind so it's actually manufactured by a different company than the one I have so YMMV.
Nice price reduction on the black g Meso there. At that price I probably would have bought a Meso instead of an original g. What I don't get is the $80 price difference between a black Meso and a pink Meso. What gives?
To add KDE to an Ubuntu install just grab the kubuntu-desktop metapackage. Then you can enjoy KDE and your wife can use GNOME :) After all, you will have a decent sized hard drive.
FWIW, I am now running Xubuntu 8.10 (I like Xfce) and everything seems to work properly. Changing distros on this machine is no big deal. The hardware seems to be very well supported. I may try to dual boot with Vector Linux 6 rc1 next :)
Nice price reduction on the black g Meso there. At that price I probably would have bought a Meso instead of an original g. What I don't get is the $80 price difference between a black Meso and a pink Meso. What gives?
To add KDE to an Ubuntu install just grab the kubuntu-desktop metapackage. Then you can enjoy KDE and your wife can use GNOME :) After all, you will have a decent sized hard drive.
FWIW, I am now running Xubuntu 8.10 (I like Xfce) and everything seems to work properly. Changing distros on this machine is no big deal. The hardware seems to be very well supported. I may try to dual boot with Vector Linux 6 rc1 next :)
A few days ago it was $329.This morning it was $289.At that price I had to do my part for the economy.It should be here in 3-5 days.The price difference for the colors was strange.
alc: Great! Let us know how the Meso works out for you.
UPDATE: Xubuntu did not quite work out of the box once I really got to using it more. Sound doesn't work at the moment. Still working on that one since it does detect my sound card correctly. (Oh, and no, it's not just muted.)
3D graphics acceleration does work but only after downloading and installing the latest driver from Via.
UPDATE: Xubuntu did not quite work out of the box once I really got to using it more. Sound doesn't work at the moment. Still working on that one since it does detect my sound card correctly. (Oh, and no, it's not just muted.)
3D graphics acceleration does work but only after downloading and installing the latest driver from Via.
caitlyn you should have used Slack or Gentoo.
/sarcasm
/sarcasm
LOL. I bet I could make Slackware 12.2 play nicely on this box. I will be trying out Vector Linux 6.0rc1 which is at least derived from Slack :)
OK... here are my final thoughts on this:
The Sylvania g is basically an upgraded Everex Cloudbook. The Everex model was reviled a year ago for good reason: gOS 2.0 had crappy support for it and wasn't optimized at all. With only 512MB RAM in the Cloudbook and the bloated distro the thing was sluggish. What a difference a year makes...
First, the Sylvania model has more memory (not even offered by Everex) and a newer rev of the graphics chipset. Second, support and drivers have improved tremendously. The remaining problem is that gOS 2.92 (which comes installed) is a beta with some issues and it doesn't have the latest drivers. gOS 3.0 is available on Sylvania's website and corrects most of the issues. The lastest Via drivers finish the job. Now everything works and is snappy.
Problem #2: You still need an external CD-ROM drive to install the latest gOS. How many netbook buyers have that? I do so it was no big deal for me.
Next, gOS hides Synaptic, a terminal, anything to do with upgrading or installing software. Edit the .desktop files and everything reappears in the menu where it belongs. Updates come directly from the Ubuntu repositories. gOS has none of it's own. All that gee-whiz Google integration and the MacOS look gOS is supposed to be good for is just wbar and shortcuts to Firefox specifying a web page. Feh! gOS 3.0 is Ubuntu Hardy with a green theme and a bunch of stuff hidden, nothing more.
Oh, and you still need to get the latest Via driver from Via, even after the upgrade.
So... for hardware Sylvania gets a 5 out of 5. Folks claim the Via chip is way slower than an Intel but I have a machine with a 1GHz Celeron and I don't see it. Low power consumption == long battery life. This thing really does get close to 4 hours. You can't have it both ways. The look and feel is really solid. The keyboard is big enough to type on. People complain that a unit this size could have an 8.9" screen. It could, but without the frame around the LCD it wouldn't be nearly as sturdy. No screen flex on this unit. I find the 7" screen to be just fine for me.
For Software Sylvania gets a 2 out of 5 at best. Windows open up that are bigger than the screen size. That's just sloppy configuration. A beta OS? The final has been out for months. It should be installed on all new units along with drivers that really work. With the original beta wireless drivers my range was much less than the updated ones in gOS 3.0 or Ubuntu 8.10.
Bottom line: Great inexpensive machine if you know Linux and have a day or so to tinker. Not so great if you have to use it the way it's configured out of the box. LXer folks will probably love it. Joe and Jane user will probably hate it.
OK, I'm done reviewing it for the folks here who asked. I'll polish up a more through review and post it on O'Reilly in a few days which probably means Scott will post it here :)
OK... here are my final thoughts on this:
The Sylvania g is basically an upgraded Everex Cloudbook. The Everex model was reviled a year ago for good reason: gOS 2.0 had crappy support for it and wasn't optimized at all. With only 512MB RAM in the Cloudbook and the bloated distro the thing was sluggish. What a difference a year makes...
First, the Sylvania model has more memory (not even offered by Everex) and a newer rev of the graphics chipset. Second, support and drivers have improved tremendously. The remaining problem is that gOS 2.92 (which comes installed) is a beta with some issues and it doesn't have the latest drivers. gOS 3.0 is available on Sylvania's website and corrects most of the issues. The lastest Via drivers finish the job. Now everything works and is snappy.
Problem #2: You still need an external CD-ROM drive to install the latest gOS. How many netbook buyers have that? I do so it was no big deal for me.
Next, gOS hides Synaptic, a terminal, anything to do with upgrading or installing software. Edit the .desktop files and everything reappears in the menu where it belongs. Updates come directly from the Ubuntu repositories. gOS has none of it's own. All that gee-whiz Google integration and the MacOS look gOS is supposed to be good for is just wbar and shortcuts to Firefox specifying a web page. Feh! gOS 3.0 is Ubuntu Hardy with a green theme and a bunch of stuff hidden, nothing more.
Oh, and you still need to get the latest Via driver from Via, even after the upgrade.
So... for hardware Sylvania gets a 5 out of 5. Folks claim the Via chip is way slower than an Intel but I have a machine with a 1GHz Celeron and I don't see it. Low power consumption == long battery life. This thing really does get close to 4 hours. You can't have it both ways. The look and feel is really solid. The keyboard is big enough to type on. People complain that a unit this size could have an 8.9" screen. It could, but without the frame around the LCD it wouldn't be nearly as sturdy. No screen flex on this unit. I find the 7" screen to be just fine for me.
For Software Sylvania gets a 2 out of 5 at best. Windows open up that are bigger than the screen size. That's just sloppy configuration. A beta OS? The final has been out for months. It should be installed on all new units along with drivers that really work. With the original beta wireless drivers my range was much less than the updated ones in gOS 3.0 or Ubuntu 8.10.
Bottom line: Great inexpensive machine if you know Linux and have a day or so to tinker. Not so great if you have to use it the way it's configured out of the box. LXer folks will probably love it. Joe and Jane user will probably hate it.
OK, I'm done reviewing it for the folks here who asked. I'll polish up a more through review and post it on O'Reilly in a few days which probably means Scott will post it here :)
@CP if you do a google search for "Computers Desktop Notebook Laptop Linux" and select results from Australia Feral Penguin Computers comes up on the first page of search results, and I haven't even tried to optimise the site yet.
Remind me again why anyone who values Free software would want anything to do with gOS? They hide their Linux underpinnings, hide all the Linux goodness and cover it with their own branded gunk, and don't even show anything Linux-y running on it:
http://www.thinkgos.com/
Now they're calling it Cloud, which sounds like it's really Splashtop, or whatever they're calling the Linux pre-boot environment these days.
Uh huh. One more barrier. I didn't think much of it the first time I looked at it, and I'm still having a hard time finding reasons to like it. To me it looks like yet another entry in the Exploit Linux category.
http://www.thinkgos.com/
Now they're calling it Cloud, which sounds like it's really Splashtop, or whatever they're calling the Linux pre-boot environment these days.
Quoting: FAQ & Help We invite everyone to join our Google Group to receive technical answers regarding all gOS software.
Uh huh. One more barrier. I didn't think much of it the first time I looked at it, and I'm still having a hard time finding reasons to like it. To me it looks like yet another entry in the Exploit Linux category.
tucxhick hits the nail on the head. gOS isn't an OS, it's a marketing gimmick. It's Ubuntu with the ability to update and secure it hidden. It's a green theme. It's Firefox shortcuts. There is no app, no code, no tools, nothing at all written by GoodOS (the company) and virtually no support.
Best yet... if you do all the updates from the Ubuntu repository it won't survive a reboot. They did something to it that makes it break. So you get to leave it nice and insecure with vulnerabilities. Oh, and yeah, I checked out their support group. It's a really bad joke.
What I bought was hardware. A really nice itty bitty laptop. I didn't have to pay a dime to Microsoft. In the past I paid for a Windows license I wouldn't use because I had little choice if I wanted something reasonably priced off the shelf. Heck, I may have even contributed to Linux' so-called market share this time.
In the end I did what I always do: I wiped the hard drive and installed something I like.
Best yet... if you do all the updates from the Ubuntu repository it won't survive a reboot. They did something to it that makes it break. So you get to leave it nice and insecure with vulnerabilities. Oh, and yeah, I checked out their support group. It's a really bad joke.
What I bought was hardware. A really nice itty bitty laptop. I didn't have to pay a dime to Microsoft. In the past I paid for a Windows license I wouldn't use because I had little choice if I wanted something reasonably priced off the shelf. Heck, I may have even contributed to Linux' so-called market share this time.
In the end I did what I always do: I wiped the hard drive and installed something I like.
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So instead of trying to come up with something that's on-topic, I'm going off on a wild but fun tangent and share a cute puppy story:
My 10-month old pup is having the time of her life in her first snow, running and playing and snow-swimming and having a grand time, while grumpy big stepbrother just wants to huddle in front of the TV. I inspire him with this song:
Snooooow puppies, across the universe, On the Starship Puppy Dog, under Captain Woof. Snooooow puppies, across the universe, Boldly going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse.
He prefers going outside to hearing me sing.
Some of you might recognize the tune, it's 'Star Trekkin' by The Firm. Wonderful song that used to show up a lot on Dr. Demento. It has a complex overlapping chorus with gems like this:
Ah! We come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, shoot to kill; we come in peace, shoot to kill, shoot to kill, men.
There's Klingons on the starboard bow, starboard bow, starboard bow; there's Klingons on the starboard bow, scrape 'em off, Jim.
signed, dotty old critter lady