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Microsoft debunks Linux myths
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Comments (29)
seems pitiful, doesn't it
...that the giant of the industry feels like it has to lie its collective heads off in order to compete against the pipsqueak Linux?
What was it Gandhi said? "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win, then we all go out for burgers."
Or something like that.
Or something like that.
Veggie burgers, if Gandhi said it :)
Mohandas Gandhi's quote was
Seems from the first comment following the piece by a LeeNukes -- a pronunciation variant of "Linux" of course -- that the upper echelons of Microsoft management are still "starvin' for the good fight". Certainly a visible serving of anti-Linux FUD dished out in Allchin's and Martin's extracted statements here.
Quoting:First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.(see http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/mohandasga103630.... as well as other fine url's on this)
Seems from the first comment following the piece by a LeeNukes -- a pronunciation variant of "Linux" of course -- that the upper echelons of Microsoft management are still "starvin' for the good fight". Certainly a visible serving of anti-Linux FUD dished out in Allchin's and Martin's extracted statements here.
You know, I have always had an issue with that phrase, in that it is so easily disproven as a universal truism. It sounds good, and makes the 'underdog' feel good about their position, but is ultimately meaningless.
> ...but is ultimately meaningless.
Not quite, but it only works against a particular kind of opponent. A type which Microsoft most assuredly isn't.
Not quite, but it only works against a particular kind of opponent. A type which Microsoft most assuredly isn't.
So far its working for me, but we are only up to that laughing part.
@jdixon:
Microsoft went from the ignoring stage to the laughing stage around 1999. The dismissals at the time out of Redmond went something like, "If the hackers and slackers and fringe lunatics want to play around with it, let them, but they'll be left out in the cold when it comes to real production-quality code." Which we all know now (and some knew even then) was a bald-faced lie, both regarding the quality of Linux (the kernel) and the implied "quality" of Windows.
However, Microsoft's un-publicized stance regarding Linux was one of fear, as the Halloween Documents demonstrated. They knew even before 1998 that they would need to say something about Linux for their investors. Their behavior in 1999 showed that they had taken to heart the warnings of Vinod Valloppillil.
Maybe a year after that, they were in full-panic mode as they tried to involve the United Nations in a "patch distribution infrastructure" role (read: "software piracy cops"), as a strike against the idea of sharing knowledge freely. And that was just the beginning: SCO, Steve Ballmer (duck!), Jim Allchin, Craig Mundie, more Halloween documents, EU sanctions, OOXML/ISO...
Microsoft barely took any time to laugh at us, before gathering their munitions for the fight. Yet, we're still here, still dodging comfortably(?) every swipe of the lumbering behemoth.
It is indeed a Gandhian scenario, in which the aggressive bully will exhaust himself, just by following his own nature, while the object of his aggression proves too nimble an opponent.
Look at the inroads of the Mozilla programs, especially Firefox, on the desktop, and FOSS in general on the server. Not to mention the MITRE report detailing FOSS in military roles. Even BSD-based Macintosh OS X has FOSS brainwaves (and a set of sooper-seekrit proprietary limbs). This barely scratches the surface.
Microsoft, at least in its current state, cannot keep up with FOSS. The development model is too fast, the spectrum of software is too broad. The fight may yet be long, but FOSS will win. People demanding choice on their computers will guarantee that.
Microsoft went from the ignoring stage to the laughing stage around 1999. The dismissals at the time out of Redmond went something like, "If the hackers and slackers and fringe lunatics want to play around with it, let them, but they'll be left out in the cold when it comes to real production-quality code." Which we all know now (and some knew even then) was a bald-faced lie, both regarding the quality of Linux (the kernel) and the implied "quality" of Windows.
However, Microsoft's un-publicized stance regarding Linux was one of fear, as the Halloween Documents demonstrated. They knew even before 1998 that they would need to say something about Linux for their investors. Their behavior in 1999 showed that they had taken to heart the warnings of Vinod Valloppillil.
Maybe a year after that, they were in full-panic mode as they tried to involve the United Nations in a "patch distribution infrastructure" role (read: "software piracy cops"), as a strike against the idea of sharing knowledge freely. And that was just the beginning: SCO, Steve Ballmer (duck!), Jim Allchin, Craig Mundie, more Halloween documents, EU sanctions, OOXML/ISO...
Microsoft barely took any time to laugh at us, before gathering their munitions for the fight. Yet, we're still here, still dodging comfortably(?) every swipe of the lumbering behemoth.
It is indeed a Gandhian scenario, in which the aggressive bully will exhaust himself, just by following his own nature, while the object of his aggression proves too nimble an opponent.
Look at the inroads of the Mozilla programs, especially Firefox, on the desktop, and FOSS in general on the server. Not to mention the MITRE report detailing FOSS in military roles. Even BSD-based Macintosh OS X has FOSS brainwaves (and a set of sooper-seekrit proprietary limbs). This barely scratches the surface.
Microsoft, at least in its current state, cannot keep up with FOSS. The development model is too fast, the spectrum of software is too broad. The fight may yet be long, but FOSS will win. People demanding choice on their computers will guarantee that.
I think that Jim Allchin is certainly not ignoring Linux and few at M$ can even _afford_ to do so with things as they are. I see the problem as reversed from what jdixon writes. Instead of _M$_ not being the particular type of opponent which jdixon writes that this Gandhi phrase applies to, its _Linux_ which is not being the particular type of opponent here.
How can the M$ honchos effectively laugh off or fight as indistinct a target as Linux?? I think and see that M$'s effort to fight off the encroachment of Linux continues to be like a live human being trying to physically fight off an incorporeal ghost that continues to haunt him/her whether at Halloween-time or otherwise. It just cannot be done, at least as far as fully GPL'd non-commercial uses of Linux that is ( occult-like efforts to rid oneself of ghosts are other concerns :D ) OTOH, we all continue to see how M$ targets actual corporate entities to which it _CAN_ point a finger at, or sue in court, or even effectively threaten with vague IP patent violations. So until more and more verifiable and tangible companies consider to completely adopt Linux and FOSS, I just dont see how M$ can use strategies to put Linux down other than by spreading myths and other FUD. Just my own 2c here.
How can the M$ honchos effectively laugh off or fight as indistinct a target as Linux?? I think and see that M$'s effort to fight off the encroachment of Linux continues to be like a live human being trying to physically fight off an incorporeal ghost that continues to haunt him/her whether at Halloween-time or otherwise. It just cannot be done, at least as far as fully GPL'd non-commercial uses of Linux that is ( occult-like efforts to rid oneself of ghosts are other concerns :D ) OTOH, we all continue to see how M$ targets actual corporate entities to which it _CAN_ point a finger at, or sue in court, or even effectively threaten with vague IP patent violations. So until more and more verifiable and tangible companies consider to completely adopt Linux and FOSS, I just dont see how M$ can use strategies to put Linux down other than by spreading myths and other FUD. Just my own 2c here.
Once enough people are personally (as in one-on-one) exposed to Linux and FOSS and can see for themselves how much more they can get out of their hardware if they use Linux instead of Windows.
Even on a live CD they can see the difference most of the time. Then we will literally hear Microsoft's Death Bell ring as people and not just big faceless businesses start switching by the tens of thousands.
Even on a live CD they can see the difference most of the time. Then we will literally hear Microsoft's Death Bell ring as people and not just big faceless businesses start switching by the tens of thousands.
Y'all know the missing piece from MS' strategy-- sell something good, reliable, and fairly-priced. Instead they put all of their energy into lies, propaganda, bribery, and strong-arming. Which left them too tired to create decent products.
Scott & TC: Both right.
People ain't all that dumb. Show them something better... they will use it!
People ain't all that dumb. Show them something better... they will use it!
Well I can say that a few more people are about to try Linux.
My partner mentioned Linux on a discussion she was having on a Social board, and someone asked what Linux is, as they had never heard of it. So she got me to reply, and I did providing links and some background.
Turns out some of the people reading the board now want to download and try Linux.
My partner mentioned Linux on a discussion she was having on a Social board, and someone asked what Linux is, as they had never heard of it. So she got me to reply, and I did providing links and some background.
Turns out some of the people reading the board now want to download and try Linux.
Same here Tracyanne. I installed Ubuntu on my dad's new laptop alongside Vista (I forbade him to go online with Vista) and he's told his coworkers about it. Now he's handing out Live CDs :-) I'm a tad worried though as he knows very little about computers so he probably can't resolve things like a computer booting from HDD first, but I'll aks him about that later.
Quoting:but I'll aks him about that later.
That is a great typo, if you read it phonetically it has a very different meaning.
One up you boom boom,
In New Yorkees:
That's more to my taste: retribution.
YBT
In New Yorkees:
Quoting: ... but I'll axes him about that later.
That's more to my taste: retribution.
YBT
... and they sail blithely along, so assured of their superiority that even with the odds stacked against them that they can't possibly loose.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, and then, historically speaking you loose.
Another thing it's called is a rope-a-dope, where you let an opponent expend his energy pummeling you senseless on the theory that you will have more energy at the end of the fight. The problem is, you have to let them pummel you senseless and spend the energy. It has worked on occasion, Muhammad Ali, for example. For that one shining example of success though, how many were beaten unconscious .
Heck we dont even need MS to beat us up, we do a good enough job of doing it to ourselves. Roy's tinfoil beanie brigade, love/hate Ubuntu, the numerous predictions of the death of Gentoo, and the list goes on and on.
I have my hopes that Linux will prevail, but honestly, even Vegas wouldn't lay odds on it.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, and then, historically speaking you loose.
Another thing it's called is a rope-a-dope, where you let an opponent expend his energy pummeling you senseless on the theory that you will have more energy at the end of the fight. The problem is, you have to let them pummel you senseless and spend the energy. It has worked on occasion, Muhammad Ali, for example. For that one shining example of success though, how many were beaten unconscious .
Heck we dont even need MS to beat us up, we do a good enough job of doing it to ourselves. Roy's tinfoil beanie brigade, love/hate Ubuntu, the numerous predictions of the death of Gentoo, and the list goes on and on.
I have my hopes that Linux will prevail, but honestly, even Vegas wouldn't lay odds on it.
tracyanne, I have to put you up on a pedestal like I did helios.
I only have one pedestal so you and helios have to share.
azerthoth: Having a bad day dude? Who knows what will happen? Until something does, we can fritter away our time with Linux. And what if nothing happens? We Linux users will keep frittering away our time. Maybe do some good? We sure are not hurting anyone.
azerthoth: Having a bad day dude? Who knows what will happen? Until something does, we can fritter away our time with Linux. And what if nothing happens? We Linux users will keep frittering away our time. Maybe do some good? We sure are not hurting anyone.
@CP: I hate heights, can I come down, now, please.
Check out the comments
Classic Munchkin line: "Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely Pro Linux and its all I run at home, and at work. I try my best to use it where possible."
Anonymous spinner says: "Microsoft will never lose the desktop, I don't understand why they worry."
Anonymous spinner says: "Microsoft will never lose the desktop, I don't understand why they worry."
Quoting:"Microsoft will never lose the desktop, I don't understand why they worry."
I think this is a good attitude for MS to have, unless they want to stay in business.
They have already dropped margins nearly to $0 (in sub-notebooks). Mark Shuttleworth heard from a credible source that it's the same in desk/laptops.
With an 11% decline, let the denial carry on. Beyond dumping there is not much more that even a monopolist can do (bar bribery).
With an 11% decline, let the denial carry on. Beyond dumping there is not much more that even a monopolist can do (bar bribery).
Re: Classic Munchkin line: "Don't get me wrong, I'm extremely Pro Linux and its all I run at home, and at work. I try my best to use it where possible."
Isn't this more or less equivalent to "Some of my best friends are [black|gay|Jewish|Linux users]..."
Isn't this more or less equivalent to "Some of my best friends are [black|gay|Jewish|Linux users]..."
LOL DrDubious and Roy. "Don't get me wrong" is always a big red FUD flag.
You don't think MS would rather give away Windows than lose the netbook market?
If they start giving it away, I want a refund on every copy I have had to pay for with every machine I have bought with it on it because you and I both know that the cost it was included in the price of the computer.
They give it away, then I want my money back.
They give it away, then I want my money back.
@Scott_Ruecker,
I strongly doubt you'd get ANYTHING back from M$.
Like so many others of you, I'd be in a similar boat.
IIRC, various refund-avoidance measures M$ could use were discussed on some other threads concerning the financial ability of retailers to return past purchased licenses of Winho$. Especially true from pre-installed OEM versions. OTOH, maybe there could be some hope of a class-action suit against Micro$hill's EULA practices. I'm afraid there is not too much real hope of this though :(
And speaking about shills, it's obvious to me that the "Don't get me wrong" comment is not exactly from someone who wants to encourage more Windows interoperability with Linux. I'd agree with tuxchick and Steven_Rosenber here. Similar to my 2c sentiments on Micro$hill's downward$edimenting motions in the netbook market!
And speaking about shills, it's obvious to me that the "Don't get me wrong" comment is not exactly from someone who wants to encourage more Windows interoperability with Linux. I'd agree with tuxchick and Steven_Rosenber here. Similar to my 2c sentiments on Micro$hill's downward$edimenting motions in the netbook market!
flufferbeer, Your right and I know I would never see a dime, not that I would really spend time trying, but I know millions of others who just might.
If you had payed for it over and over again through the years (XP) and now are told that you cannot not buy it anymore (because of Vista) only to find out that they were giving it away for free just to keep a competing OS from being installed on some little laptops? I think the average consumer, and maybe some consumer rights groups might be interested in that little piece of information...
"So we're forced to buy Vista while they get to give XP away in order to keep some OS competition at bay?"
Oh, I hope they do it, I really do..
If you had payed for it over and over again through the years (XP) and now are told that you cannot not buy it anymore (because of Vista) only to find out that they were giving it away for free just to keep a competing OS from being installed on some little laptops? I think the average consumer, and maybe some consumer rights groups might be interested in that little piece of information...
"So we're forced to buy Vista while they get to give XP away in order to keep some OS competition at bay?"
Oh, I hope they do it, I really do..
The bulk of the comments on this article seem like very stock MSFT shill comments:
"I use linux at home, but..." "I love open source, but..."
Has anybody ever made an effort to coordinate comments and IP addresses of commenters over several linux blogs/sites that they suspect get a lot of shilling? You'd also want to log referers and user agent strings, just for giggles.
Maybe WordPress could do this as a plug in. Some human would have to go in and evaluate the shill-factor of every comment, though.
"I use linux at home, but..." "I love open source, but..."
Has anybody ever made an effort to coordinate comments and IP addresses of commenters over several linux blogs/sites that they suspect get a lot of shilling? You'd also want to log referers and user agent strings, just for giggles.
Maybe WordPress could do this as a plug in. Some human would have to go in and evaluate the shill-factor of every comment, though.
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