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Software liability law could divide open source
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Comments (39)
19 earlier comments in the full thread.
Quoting:Please beware that Libertian threads are deleted from time to time here at LXer however.
That would make a nice change. Please feel free to take my opposing comments with the Libertarian ones. Getting rid of the politics would be a good thing.
Quoting:Getting rid of the politics would be a good thing.
Getting rid of government would be better.
Oh, sorry, that's Bob's text, not mine. Excuse me.
Anyway, did you know you shouldn't put fresh carrots in the freezer because they taste like crap once you cooked them? I found out yesterday.
@ caitlyn
Slavery is not judged by whether one 'feels' enslaved or not, but by the nature of the arrangement between the slave and master.
Centuries of tradition can make the absurd seem rational, and people in these nations are brought up to consider private ownership of the means of production, and 'making a living' by carrying out the will of the owners of the means of production as something quite natural, as if it was the cosmic order of things.
Fact is, most people must 'earn' a living by a) getting approval off someone to work and b) obeying their dictates, ie doing what the boss wants on 'his' time with the threat of being fired. The alternative is you don't earn money, cannot afford food, clothes, being ostracised socially. Therefore, its a false choice and it is an act of coercion. Compete with others to be given the 'priveledge' to work, and work with threat of poverty and lowered social status if you don't comply. Self-employment is not possible for 100% of the population, therefore most have to accept a position whereby they seek permission from someone else to sell their labour on set, pre-prescribed terms. We consider this normal,largely because our education system indoctrinates us with this 'normality' and does not give people the mental wherewithal to percieve alternative ideologies and explore the philosophy of this system.
That seems coercive to me, and not a matter of free will. Wage Slave seems very appropriate, considering the nature of the options presented to people.
Quoting: Anyone who works for a salary is, by your definition a wage "slave". I don't think most European or Israeli or Japanese or Canadian health care workers feel enslaved. It's certainly a definition of slavery most won't agree with or accept.
Slavery is not judged by whether one 'feels' enslaved or not, but by the nature of the arrangement between the slave and master.
Centuries of tradition can make the absurd seem rational, and people in these nations are brought up to consider private ownership of the means of production, and 'making a living' by carrying out the will of the owners of the means of production as something quite natural, as if it was the cosmic order of things.
Fact is, most people must 'earn' a living by a) getting approval off someone to work and b) obeying their dictates, ie doing what the boss wants on 'his' time with the threat of being fired. The alternative is you don't earn money, cannot afford food, clothes, being ostracised socially. Therefore, its a false choice and it is an act of coercion. Compete with others to be given the 'priveledge' to work, and work with threat of poverty and lowered social status if you don't comply. Self-employment is not possible for 100% of the population, therefore most have to accept a position whereby they seek permission from someone else to sell their labour on set, pre-prescribed terms. We consider this normal,largely because our education system indoctrinates us with this 'normality' and does not give people the mental wherewithal to percieve alternative ideologies and explore the philosophy of this system.
That seems coercive to me, and not a matter of free will. Wage Slave seems very appropriate, considering the nature of the options presented to people.
I like pie
> Sure. When Bob agrees I'll agree too. Not before.
Then why don't you and Bob take it to private email. We all know the arguments on both sides. You can CC me and maybe gus3 on it if you want referees. I'm not impartial, but I'll try to restrain my bias.
Then why don't you and Bob take it to private email. We all know the arguments on both sides. You can CC me and maybe gus3 on it if you want referees. I'm not impartial, but I'll try to restrain my bias.
> Anyway, did you know you shouldn't put fresh carrots in the freezer because they taste like crap once you cooked them?
If you have to do that, use a crock pot. The slower cooking seems to do a better job with frozen vegetables.
If you have to do that, use a crock pot. The slower cooking seems to do a better job with frozen vegetables.
Hans: Yes, I knew that about carrots. If you can't use them up before they'd go off make yourself a nice carrot cake. Yummy.
azerthoth: It depends what kind of pie. Pumpkin? Yummy. Rhubarb? No thanks.
Borax_Man: It's not an either/or choice in a free society. A few years ago I decided it was better off to start my own business. Earlier this year I was worried I made a poor decision considering where the economy was going. May was a good month for me. June looks like it will be even better. I'm eating, paying for my ferrets' vet care next week (check ups and vaccinations), and generally doing fine, thankyouverymuch.
Even when I worked for someone else I didn't feel enslaved. If the situation wasn't good for me I was able to find other work and say adios to the boss that ran the unacceptable situation. Working for someone else doesn't make anyone a slave.
jdixon: If Bob agrees I'm fine with that. Or I can just drop it. I'm fine with that too.
azerthoth: It depends what kind of pie. Pumpkin? Yummy. Rhubarb? No thanks.
Borax_Man: It's not an either/or choice in a free society. A few years ago I decided it was better off to start my own business. Earlier this year I was worried I made a poor decision considering where the economy was going. May was a good month for me. June looks like it will be even better. I'm eating, paying for my ferrets' vet care next week (check ups and vaccinations), and generally doing fine, thankyouverymuch.
Even when I worked for someone else I didn't feel enslaved. If the situation wasn't good for me I was able to find other work and say adios to the boss that ran the unacceptable situation. Working for someone else doesn't make anyone a slave.
jdixon: If Bob agrees I'm fine with that. Or I can just drop it. I'm fine with that too.
I read that ferrets don't like pie, so there is more for the humans.
tc: Ferrets tend to have a sweet tooth. Pie is bad for them. Some kinds can even be toxic. They would still eat them with great abandon in most cases. So, no, no pie for my ferrets.
> jdixon: If Bob agrees I'm fine with that. Or I can just drop it. I'm fine with that too.
That all I can ask Caitlyn. As I said, we all know the arguments on both sides by now. And my position on the matter is equally well known, so I don't really have anything to add either.
Bob, you know I'm more in agreement with you than Caitlyn, but none of the three of us are going to convince anyone, and the positions have been made. Let's drop it, please.
Now, if someone wants to suggest ways to influence the outcome, then that would be useful information for those in the EU. Any ideas?
That all I can ask Caitlyn. As I said, we all know the arguments on both sides by now. And my position on the matter is equally well known, so I don't really have anything to add either.
Bob, you know I'm more in agreement with you than Caitlyn, but none of the three of us are going to convince anyone, and the positions have been made. Let's drop it, please.
Now, if someone wants to suggest ways to influence the outcome, then that would be useful information for those in the EU. Any ideas?
> So you want all laws eliminated? You're an anarchist?
Caitlyn, really, I cannot imagine that you weren't fully aware of this before now.
Recommended reading: The Market For Liberty
http://freekeene.com/free-audiobook/
> > So let's just agree to disagree and drop the subject, shall we? > Sure. When Bob agrees I'll agree too. Not before.
So far as I can tell, Caitlyn, your posting in this thread asserting your position in favor of intrusive regulation of business came first. So telling me I'm wrong for doing exactly the same thing seems rather biased.
Your reply then informed me that you were interested in discussing the topic.
Really, just scroll back up and look. The escallation is obviously mutual. I get the impression that, face to face, we'd get into a wonderful raging argument that would last for hours, ending only through mutual exhaustion.
> Now, if someone wants to suggest ways to influence the outcome, then that would be useful information for those in the EU. Any ideas?
Political problems are only answered by political answers. Vote Pirate Party.
Caitlyn, really, I cannot imagine that you weren't fully aware of this before now.
Recommended reading: The Market For Liberty
http://freekeene.com/free-audiobook/
> > So let's just agree to disagree and drop the subject, shall we? > Sure. When Bob agrees I'll agree too. Not before.
So far as I can tell, Caitlyn, your posting in this thread asserting your position in favor of intrusive regulation of business came first. So telling me I'm wrong for doing exactly the same thing seems rather biased.
Your reply then informed me that you were interested in discussing the topic.
Really, just scroll back up and look. The escallation is obviously mutual. I get the impression that, face to face, we'd get into a wonderful raging argument that would last for hours, ending only through mutual exhaustion.
> Now, if someone wants to suggest ways to influence the outcome, then that would be useful information for those in the EU. Any ideas?
Political problems are only answered by political answers. Vote Pirate Party.
> Sorry, couldn't let that one go, as I'm always fascinated by the libertarian love given to Reagan.
I assure you, only Republicans still tout his "libertarian" effectiveness. The rhetoric was very nice, yes, but even by 1984 the Libertarians were listing the failures of his administration.
I assure you, only Republicans still tout his "libertarian" effectiveness. The rhetoric was very nice, yes, but even by 1984 the Libertarians were listing the failures of his administration.
@Bob: I took your advice and scrolled back to see who started it. It was Libervis.
I have no problem with political debate. For Israelis politics is both a national passtime and an obsession. We can have raging arguments that seem really nasty then all sit down to dinner and still love each other. Politics isn't personal even if there was a personal attack or two thrown it. That's the culture. I have no objection to debating you. Others on this site and the TOS are where the objections come in.
A former coworker and friend who is Palestinian taught me that in this respect, at least in private, there is no difference between Palestinian and Israeli culture. (Voicing certain views in public is decidedly dangerous for a Palestinian.) Our friendship was forged through debate that to others may have looked and sounded like the beginning of a personal round of the conflict between our peoples. We both agreed that if we could negotiate for our respective sides we'd have peace in a week :)
So, yeah, for me political argument comes naturally, is very much a cultural thing, and, no, there is no personal dislike for you or anyone else on this site.
I have no problem with political debate. For Israelis politics is both a national passtime and an obsession. We can have raging arguments that seem really nasty then all sit down to dinner and still love each other. Politics isn't personal even if there was a personal attack or two thrown it. That's the culture. I have no objection to debating you. Others on this site and the TOS are where the objections come in.
A former coworker and friend who is Palestinian taught me that in this respect, at least in private, there is no difference between Palestinian and Israeli culture. (Voicing certain views in public is decidedly dangerous for a Palestinian.) Our friendship was forged through debate that to others may have looked and sounded like the beginning of a personal round of the conflict between our peoples. We both agreed that if we could negotiate for our respective sides we'd have peace in a week :)
So, yeah, for me political argument comes naturally, is very much a cultural thing, and, no, there is no personal dislike for you or anyone else on this site.
Correction: I do have a dislike for the two or three Microsoft shills that popped up here lately. I never cared much for trolls.
Now we know how to drive Caitlyn nuts-- agree with her all the time.
tc: That might just work :)
Yes, I think you're right! Again!
> It was Libervis.
PILE ON!
PILE ON!
> Others on this site and the TOS are where the objections come in.
If this were a forum where the others expected politics to be on topic, there wouldn't be a problem. But since they don't...
I can discuss or not, and skip what I;m not interested in, but what's the point if it's just going to get the thread deleted?
> ...there is no personal dislike for you or anyone else on this site.
Hmm. Libervis? Nah, not really. He just reminds me too much of myself about 35 years ago. And other than that, none at all. Even Dino and I disagree on a semi-regular basis without too many ill effects, and he's as opinionated as any of us.
Of course, if anyone really wants political mayhem, they can start with the following quote:
"Anyhow, it's important to maintain your perspective and keep in mind that using Apple products doesn't make you a better person. That's what Linux is for."
from my favorite Christian Libertarian, Vox Day at http://voxday.blogspot.com/ and go from there. :)
If this were a forum where the others expected politics to be on topic, there wouldn't be a problem. But since they don't...
I can discuss or not, and skip what I;m not interested in, but what's the point if it's just going to get the thread deleted?
> ...there is no personal dislike for you or anyone else on this site.
Hmm. Libervis? Nah, not really. He just reminds me too much of myself about 35 years ago. And other than that, none at all. Even Dino and I disagree on a semi-regular basis without too many ill effects, and he's as opinionated as any of us.
Of course, if anyone really wants political mayhem, they can start with the following quote:
"Anyhow, it's important to maintain your perspective and keep in mind that using Apple products doesn't make you a better person. That's what Linux is for."
from my favorite Christian Libertarian, Vox Day at http://voxday.blogspot.com/ and go from there. :)
Comments on this story are closed.
Don't worry, it won't. BSA has a particular strong influence in the EP. You know, Klaus Heiner Lehne, working both as juridical leader of the largest EP-fraction and at the same time working for Taylor Wessing, at which Microsoft receives 10% discount. If necessary, they will hand out some free ice-creams again.
You see, a whole thread about some law that won't make it in first place, what a waste. Please take this thread offtopic and have fun. Oh, I missed, you already succeeded at that. Just an advise: Please beware that Libertian threads are deleted from time to time here at LXer however.