The Bully In The Linux Schoolyard

Quoting: 99% of the time, command line is faster and relies less on someones observational skills and replaces it with a couple of simple words to type in. It's not elitism, simply put it's universal whereas the myriad of WM/DE's handle the same task differently across the board.

It's also more succinct and can be applied verbatim... Though that gets into the give-a-fish-or-teach-fishing issue. IME the problem with that one is, most of the time, they really want the fish right then and there and they're too impatient (or desperate) to learn the offered lessons and they know it. Or they're afraid, if they get into the lessons, they'll wind up spending all of their time fishing and none of it eating. I know some Windows folks who're convinced that we Linux folks dwell on working-on-computers to the almost total exclusion of using computers to get stuff done... maybe because that's the only time they can be bothered to pay attention to what we're doing.

Also, unless you can open the exact app and desktop they've got on your own console, you're unlikely to be able to coach them through using it to get the job done; even the minor variations among Firefox's versions and platforms have caused some confusion in my coaching-by-phone efforts.

Lately there's been a real uptick in how-to articles for GUI-driven tasks, complete with real actual pictures from screenshots, and that's a good thing. if I can find one on a quick search after getting a GUI question, I think I best help the querent by passing them the link and telling them to read it through and come back to me with any remaining questions. They can get the graphic directions in an article where somebody's had a chance to sit down and compose the text in an orderly manner, rather than being under the gun for answers-right-now.

I agree with helios and also with kenholmz comment about this not being about the CLI. It is all about how you treat people, how you approach people and what sort of attitude you bring to a forum. There is a small but vocal minority of the Linux community that are elitist, don't like newbies and wishes they would go away. I've seen time and again where people looking for help are treated with utter disrespect and are berated for asking a question in a less than clueful way. Some forum moderators step in, some don't and some encourage this sort of nonsense. Peppermint has taken the extra step on making it a rule.

Linuxchix had a nicer way of putting it: "Be polite, be helpful." That was rule #1. That is really all this is about. Some people aren't either because of a lack of social skills, a lack of comprehension about the level of help really needed or, in some cases, a deliberate decision that the person asking the question isn't worthy of a polite, helpful response. A forum moderator needs to be able to discern when rudeness is deliberate and deal with it accordingly. When it isn't deliberate all you can do is try to help the person asking the question.

Does Peppermint take it too far? IMHO, yes, they do when they ban code. Like helios I've walked people through a brief excursion to the command line. I've even had people ask me if the command line was really necessary and my answer is almost always something like: "No. It is faster and easier for me to explain. You could have done this without the command line but it would have been more difficult or taken longer." People accept that for the most part. Remember that MacOS and Windows have the command line too.

What I don't like about the article is equating bullying (a real issue) with a terminal session. The two have nothing to do with each other.

What I don't like about certain comments is the whole P.C. argument. Shouting "PC!" is a way by some to excuse all sorts of boorish behavior, both IRL and online. To me, political correctness is just not going out of your way to offend people and thinking about the consequences of what you might say instead of just blurting things out. To me, political correctness is generally a good thing. Oh, and yes I am aware that too much of a good thing can be harmful at times.

It's usually a self-teaching process, in which everyone can trace the curve at the pace that suits them best.

I think this is the most valuable sentence in the whole article. Ultimately, everybody is responsible for their own computer and the skillset they do (or do not) develop.

That involves asking a LOT of questions, because Linux evolves so fast that it's impossible for documentation in print media to catch up.

This is a load of hogwash. I learned my Linux with books and magazines in print between 1998 and 2001, and online till this day. I refuse to believe that this isn't possible anymore today.

Occasionally someone replies to an obvious beginner question with a torrent of commands intended to impress the questioner with how complicated Linux really is and, by implication, how wise the answerer is.

A blanket statement and one that accuses of ill intent. I'd like to know what the difficulty of the problem is before accusing the person solving it of CLI grandstanding. Just because a beginner asks a question, it doesn't automatically follow that the problem is trivial or best solved through the GUI.

More often than not, such an answer is accompanied by a contemptuous remark.

Haven't seen this in a long time. The days of RTFM are over.

The deeper problem is that most newcomers to Linux are well aware they face a lot of learning and effort, but they accept it for the chance to work with the system.

When the wish to learn Linux, and use it seriously, is really there, a newbie won't drop Linux at the first sight of an idiot answer. I've seen the opposite too. Newbies who think that by the grace of having decided to install Linux that they are now entitled to abuse every single Linux using peer as their unpaid 24/7 computing helpdesk / computing serf.

I wouldn't blame a newcomer for saying, "Why go to the trouble of learning something that's used by a bunch of jerks?"

If the usergroup is the overal determining factor to use Linux, why look at Linux in the first place? It looks like technical matters are not the issue in that case. Why go through the trouble at all? If one abbrasive encounter is enough to make you decide to use what you used previously, you don't have pressing reasons to use Linux.

In the end it seems to come down to one answer (deemed elitist and condescending, but I couldn't find it and check) in the Peppermint forums, which then is trotted around as proof that new users are chased away by the CLI bastards. It is irksome that the CLI is constantly smeared. Not every help involving the CLI is made with the malevolent intent of chasing users away. For all practical intents and purposes, ALL OS's have their advanced trickery, be it Windows (cmd.exe + regedit.exe anyone?) or OS X, etc. Sometimes a quick pasteable command string is the best way to get someone back on track. Not everything is doable via GUI.

Plus that these days everybody seems to ignore the big elephant in the room, called MS which still stacks the deck against Linux preloading. Which is why Linux isn't making sizeable inroads on the consumer desktop market.