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Linux User’s Ubuntu Column #100 with Mark Shuttleworth
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Comments (12)
@Grishnakh you described exactly the problem I have with the Unity desktop. My rig, for example, has two monitors, neither unity nor GNOME Shell works well or in any way that I find useful with my set up. GNOME Shell doesn't even recognose the second monitor in the virtual desktop previews.
On the other hand I look forward to using Unity on a tablet.
The thing is it works well enough on a normal sized laptop and single screen desktop, that for most people it's good enough, And Microsoft have been getting away with that for years.
On the other hand I look forward to using Unity on a tablet.
The thing is it works well enough on a normal sized laptop and single screen desktop, that for most people it's good enough, And Microsoft have been getting away with that for years.
Another current LXer thread -- well-worth following, btw -- indirectly touches upon this distro of the "guy [who] just doesn't get it"; the thread at http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/31768/
The first commentator there points out:
In any case, a nearly identical comment is spelled out here, in this thread:
OTOH, one of the key Debian proponents who regularly contributes and comments on LXer, accurately and seriously doubts that "derivative distros (like Mint) are going to rebase from Debian". From today's InsideSoCal blog entry 'Debian in China' found at http://insidesocal.com/click/2011/05/debian-in-china.html :
Day-to-day work; seems that this Linux and Debian-proponent definitely gets it spot-on!
And furthermore, from a previous InsideSoCal blog entry :
So even IF (a big if!) current users of Shuttleworth's distro start abandoning ship for reasons previously expressed, the "Debian base" will STILL flourish for a long time to come.
The first commentator there points out:
Quoting:You need to stop praising Ubuntu, to the hilts and start testing other Linux distributions then you will soon find out how good they are, Like Sabayon, Ultimate Pardus Linux Mint Debian Edition, Pinguy, Fusion and others. These put Ubuntu to shame.(yes to the second commentator of both threads ;) who accurately points out that "to the hilts" should be best written as "to the hilt"!)
In any case, a nearly identical comment is spelled out here, in this thread:
Quoting:If he [Shuttleworth] continues this path, all his users are going to rebel, they're going to move to other distros, the derivative distros (like Mint) are going to rebase from Debian, and Ubuntu is going to become completely irrelevant.
OTOH, one of the key Debian proponents who regularly contributes and comments on LXer, accurately and seriously doubts that "derivative distros (like Mint) are going to rebase from Debian". From today's InsideSoCal blog entry 'Debian in China' found at http://insidesocal.com/click/2011/05/debian-in-china.html :
Quoting:More users of Debian is always a good thing, and I welcome Chinese users of Linux to the distribution I rely on more than any other for my day-to-day work.
Day-to-day work; seems that this Linux and Debian-proponent definitely gets it spot-on!
And furthermore, from a previous InsideSoCal blog entry :
Quoting: But right here now, Debian Squeeze is too good, needs so little geeky attention, and just keeps on working as it does that I really can't distro-hop at present. ... ... The reason the Debian "philosophy" about the Stable release works is that while there is an occasional package that might be a somewhat of a dud, version-wise, in the release, when it comes to major infrastructure choices, Debian is very conservative, and you're not going to find bleeding-edge technologies that have not been road-tested by lots of other people beforehand.(from http://insidesocal.com/click/2011/04/distro-fatigue.html)
So even IF (a big if!) current users of Shuttleworth's distro start abandoning ship for reasons previously expressed, the "Debian base" will STILL flourish for a long time to come.
I do believe that a few months ago, Linux Mint decided to put out a Debian based edition, as well. By which I mean, they've actually released it.
vainrveenr:
Agreed. But we shouldn't forget when people abandon a ship 'out of emergency' (or at least they think so), they will make much more noise than five times as much people boarding the same ship in the harbour.
I wouldn't be surprised if more people board then abandon the Ubuntu ship; at least that's Shuttleworth's goal it seems.
Like you propose, lots of 'refugees' will switch to another Debian based distro; so the total number of Debian-deriv. users will grow anyway.
Even while in my opinion apt-get is a bad package manager.
Agreed. But we shouldn't forget when people abandon a ship 'out of emergency' (or at least they think so), they will make much more noise than five times as much people boarding the same ship in the harbour.
I wouldn't be surprised if more people board then abandon the Ubuntu ship; at least that's Shuttleworth's goal it seems.
Like you propose, lots of 'refugees' will switch to another Debian based distro; so the total number of Debian-deriv. users will grow anyway.
Even while in my opinion apt-get is a bad package manager.
I'm glad I decided to stick with 10.04 LTS for most of my systems. It defers having to be concerned with this for a couple years, at least. Besides, I heavily modify the UI anyway. As long as I'd still be able to do that with Ubuntu 17.xx, I could care less about Unity, Gnome shell, whatever.
Unity and GNOME 3 don't worry me so much as Wayland replacing X11.
Im sticking with Linux Mint XFCE Debian as it supports my dual monitors perfectly, I get really mad when I cant have dual monitors running.
Last time that happened I nearly threw out a DAAMIT HD5770 card cause their d@mn driver was pants and it barely supported one monitor let alone 2.
So yes dual monitors are a must for me on any DE, I suspect stuff like Unity and Gnome Shell will eventually evolve decent multi-monitor support because if they dont they will basically be for the mobile devices market only while on the desktop PC it wont achieve much above toy status.
So yes dual monitors are a must for me on any DE, I suspect stuff like Unity and Gnome Shell will eventually evolve decent multi-monitor support because if they dont they will basically be for the mobile devices market only while on the desktop PC it wont achieve much above toy status.
@Steven_Rosenber: Unity and GNOME 3 don't worry me so much as Wayland replacing X11.
I worry about it not being done properly. I have to say that it sounds like an exciting project and they are talking about support X11 as a Wayland client.
I think that there are good reasons for venturing to suggest that X11 is not as efficient/suitable for the modern desktop. Having an alternative that is X11 backwards compatible (in terms of applications at least) is always good for the ecosystem.
I worry about it not being done properly. I have to say that it sounds like an exciting project and they are talking about support X11 as a Wayland client.
I think that there are good reasons for venturing to suggest that X11 is not as efficient/suitable for the modern desktop. Having an alternative that is X11 backwards compatible (in terms of applications at least) is always good for the ecosystem.
Quoting: Unity and GNOME 3 don't worry me so much as Wayland replacing X11.
I'm actually somewhat looking forward to that if it can be made to work right & there's driver support. It's supposed to handle the feature set of newer chipsets better, and handle peripherals better, while still being able to run X as a process. I don't see it as any scarier than when we went from XFree86 to Xorg...
Im with JaseP, also looking forward to seeing Wayland in action.
X11 certainly has its place especially networked sessions a feature that I use on a daily basis but is not really required on the average joe's desktop and can be considered overkill functionality.
And if the promised X11 support in Wayland does materialise then I can't see why folks should be worried and hopefully maybe even ATI drivers will work better with it, yeh i know that HD5770 really pss... me off.
And if the promised X11 support in Wayland does materialise then I can't see why folks should be worried and hopefully maybe even ATI drivers will work better with it, yeh i know that HD5770 really pss... me off.
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Yes, the UI is more complicated. That's one of the small drawbacks. However, with greater complexity comes greater utility. After learning the interface, there's infinitely more stuff I can do with a desktop PC than I can a smartphone. Typing, for instance, is pretty much impossible on a smartphone unless 5wpm is OK with you. Software development is also impossible on a smartphone, and for many of us, that's our job that we get paid for.
The other thing this guy doesn't seem to realize is that, for Canonical to continue, it needs to make some money. It's not going to do that by abandoning real Linux users and running after teenagers who want a smartphone-like interface on their PC. Linux is not getting a lot of uptake by users of other PC OSes, and that's not likely to change in the future, except by moving into the workplace. Corporations are the best bet for Linux adoption, because 1) they have an IT department that controls everything, and they don't have to worry about some application bought at Best Buy not being compatible, and 2) they stand to save a ton of money by not buying Windows licenses for hundreds or thousands of PCs.
If he continues this path, all his users are going to rebel, they're going to move to other distros, the derivative distros (like Mint) are going to rebase from Debian, and Ubuntu is going to become completely irrelevant.