- Site menu:
- Latest Discussions
- Latest Newswire
- Archives
- Submit Story
- Story HOWTO
- Syndicate
- E-mail Alerts
The Linux desktop experience is killing Linux on the desktop
|
|
|
Comments (49)
29 earlier comments in the full thread.
Quoting:"It works for me so it should be good enough for everybody else."
I don't believe I said anything of the sort.
> Seems like the basic argument is,...
I would prefer to be able to tell someone else what will work for them, but so far the power to enter into another's mind and perceive their wants and point of view directly eludes me.
As such, there is only one point of view any individual can actually know. The rest is guesswork.
I would prefer to be able to tell someone else what will work for them, but so far the power to enter into another's mind and perceive their wants and point of view directly eludes me.
As such, there is only one point of view any individual can actually know. The rest is guesswork.
@dino, I specifically am NOT saying that. I got a lot of that flack for my "Linux Out, FreeBSD In" article, even though I clearly blamed the marginal hardware (the FreeBSD source says it "brings a new definition to the term 'low-end'").
Re-read BernardSwiss's first comment on this thread. It's the rant I would have posted, but for this tiny Android keyboard.
Re-read BernardSwiss's first comment on this thread. It's the rant I would have posted, but for this tiny Android keyboard.
Quoting:"It works for me so it should be good enough for everybody else."
I don't believe I said anything of the sort
Neither did anyone else here in this thread. I believe you are incorrectly paraphrasing.
Some people describe problems that others don't experience and they voice their doubts about it, that is not the same as you are suggesting. It is a way to let them know that something else is wrong.
> b) We're now using GoToMyPC, which is worse than LogMeIn and doesn't work in Linux (or Debian anyway), even with Java
Steven, take a look at teamviewer: http://www.teamviewer.com/en/index.aspx
It's a Windows app, but it works under wine, and they even packaged it so you could install it directly.
Steven, take a look at teamviewer: http://www.teamviewer.com/en/index.aspx
It's a Windows app, but it works under wine, and they even packaged it so you could install it directly.
dino,
Your back!
YBT
P.S. You should know how uneasy it has been of late, finding myself describing you as a rational voice. Now we are back in our comfort zones. How are you?
Your back!
Quoting:Do you ever listen to yourselves?
Seems like the basic argument is,
"It works for me so it should be good enough for everybody else."
YBT
P.S. You should know how uneasy it has been of late, finding myself describing you as a rational voice. Now we are back in our comfort zones. How are you?
Guys -
While still a steadfast Linux desktop user, even I have installed Windows on my workstation -- albeit as a guest under VirtualBox.
The problem for Linux is the same as it always has been: The mythical "average" user.
Trouble is, lots and lots of those average users ALMOST fit the profile, but have one app they really want, but can't get under linux, or one piece of hardware they want to use but can't get to work under Linux without jumping through hoops.l
A couple of years, I almost got a friend of mine to use Linux netbooks in his business. Would have made the sale, except that he couldn't tether his mobile to them. I searched the web and found a "How-to" for getting it to work, but the fact that Windows did it out of the box ("out of the box" meaning he could just download the driver and everything worked) made him order subsequent machines with Windows instead of Linux.
Users just plain don't care WHY things don't work on Linux. They care THAT they don't work. Lots of people can happily use Linux desktops. I'm one of them. Lots of people can't.
While still a steadfast Linux desktop user, even I have installed Windows on my workstation -- albeit as a guest under VirtualBox.
The problem for Linux is the same as it always has been: The mythical "average" user.
Trouble is, lots and lots of those average users ALMOST fit the profile, but have one app they really want, but can't get under linux, or one piece of hardware they want to use but can't get to work under Linux without jumping through hoops.l
A couple of years, I almost got a friend of mine to use Linux netbooks in his business. Would have made the sale, except that he couldn't tether his mobile to them. I searched the web and found a "How-to" for getting it to work, but the fact that Windows did it out of the box ("out of the box" meaning he could just download the driver and everything worked) made him order subsequent machines with Windows instead of Linux.
Users just plain don't care WHY things don't work on Linux. They care THAT they don't work. Lots of people can happily use Linux desktops. I'm one of them. Lots of people can't.
Quoting:Users just plain don't care WHY things don't work on Linux. They care THAT they don't work. Lots of people can happily use Linux desktops. I'm one of them..
@Dino,
You make a very good point and I agree with you. I am sure many other agree with you too. But, the issue is not that clear cut.
Quoting:Lots of people can't
Why can't they? Is it all because Linux is so hard to install? It is not anymore.
Have they tried it? Most haven't
Are standard apps used by 99% of people are available for Linux? they are and more
Can they run Windows apps? No, but they can use VBox. Not a big deal if it comes installed
Is Linux support available? Yes, just like Windows support is via friend(not popular), forum, Google search, etc.
Is there vendor support for Linux? Yes and cost $$$ just like Windows
Do users have to learn supporting their Linux machines? Yes, just like they had to learn supporting their Windows machines.
Etc...
There are issue still to be resolved with Linux, but they are not that big of a deal.
Many of these issue can be resolved by offering support. Ubuntu is the best capable of doing that, but their last DE development is messing things up at the moment. What must happen is to offer free support to make user comfortable trying out and experiencing Linux. And that is why I say the community needs a "Adopt a Linux PC/User" program with a helpdesk database system that would be used by volunteers to support and help any users with any Linux issue.
Windows didn't have that because it didn't need it to proliferate, NOT because it was easy and robust, but because it was they only thing available and users had no other choice but to learn Windows by trial and error.
Linux needs such a volunteer program in order to sway user from what they are used to: "Windows"
Got a WiFi card the other day and it said "LINUX supported" in big letters on the front of the box.
Didn't mention Mac either.
You could have knocked me over with a feather....
==============
Edit: ASUS PCE-N13 802.11b/g/n
Says "LINUX Support" on the box.
On back it says: "Support OS Windows 7/Vista/XP/2000; Linux Kernel 2.6.29"
:D
Didn't mention Mac either.
You could have knocked me over with a feather....
==============
Edit: ASUS PCE-N13 802.11b/g/n
Says "LINUX Support" on the box.
On back it says: "Support OS Windows 7/Vista/XP/2000; Linux Kernel 2.6.29"
:D
@skelband...
Woohoo!
I recently bought a piece of hardware that said the same thing, but I've completely forgotten what it was. Nice, no matter how you slice it.
Woohoo!
I recently bought a piece of hardware that said the same thing, but I've completely forgotten what it was. Nice, no matter how you slice it.
Quoting:You mean this guy is Ken Hess writing under another nom de plume? When trapped KH is known to revert[*] to this sort of argument.
Nah. He didn't make any "cloud" references.
I'm the first to complain about things not working in Linux/BSD, but my current "main" laptop, a cheap ($329) Lenovo G555 (not at all a Thinkpad) is a case in point:
Between Atheros wired and wireless networking, ATI video and Conexant sound, I had a few bumps along the way:
-- Linux liked the WiFi but not the wired Ethernet interface, which was too "new" for the kernel -- No sound muting with then-current ALSA drivers -- Video died during early kernel mode setting era
I started with Fedora 13 in March and ended up with Debian Squeeze by the end of the year. All networking and video problems were solved at that point, and I had fully functional suspend/resume.
Once I went beyond Debian's 2.6.32 kernel to a kernel with the 1.0.23 ALSA drivers (most kernels were using 1.0.21 even though ALSA itself was at 1.0.23), the sound issues resolved itself.
Yeah, it took many months for Linux to "like" the hardware, but now that it does, I'm in a very good place, so to speak.
Between Atheros wired and wireless networking, ATI video and Conexant sound, I had a few bumps along the way:
-- Linux liked the WiFi but not the wired Ethernet interface, which was too "new" for the kernel -- No sound muting with then-current ALSA drivers -- Video died during early kernel mode setting era
I started with Fedora 13 in March and ended up with Debian Squeeze by the end of the year. All networking and video problems were solved at that point, and I had fully functional suspend/resume.
Once I went beyond Debian's 2.6.32 kernel to a kernel with the 1.0.23 ALSA drivers (most kernels were using 1.0.21 even though ALSA itself was at 1.0.23), the sound issues resolved itself.
Yeah, it took many months for Linux to "like" the hardware, but now that it does, I'm in a very good place, so to speak.
^ I made my point then. In the end you have to admit you need a large entity to kick start it, such as Intel with Meego devices, but its gonna need a huge ecosystem built around it to begin competing with the big boys like iOS and Android, but I don't think it could (even though I wish it could, until the sales becomes very good and other manufacturer takes notice and wants a piece).
In a good and bad way (but more good than bad), I have to customize my own version of Ubuntu to make sure someof those bugs you mentioned are sorted. And I have to take precaution to buy Intel based laptop to make sure sound, video and internet works out of the box. Microsoft dictate a standard that everyone has to follow (minimal hardware and specs for their Windows Phone 7 and Windows 8 for example). Linux don't have that, it is a struggle to get everyone to agree on an open standard. But I begin to feel this wall is going to be broken with consumer Linux running on both x86 and ARM and vice verse for Windows. It's going to be interesting seeing how it play out and if Microsoft can dominate the ARM sector as well or it will be fair share for all.
In a good and bad way (but more good than bad), I have to customize my own version of Ubuntu to make sure someof those bugs you mentioned are sorted. And I have to take precaution to buy Intel based laptop to make sure sound, video and internet works out of the box. Microsoft dictate a standard that everyone has to follow (minimal hardware and specs for their Windows Phone 7 and Windows 8 for example). Linux don't have that, it is a struggle to get everyone to agree on an open standard. But I begin to feel this wall is going to be broken with consumer Linux running on both x86 and ARM and vice verse for Windows. It's going to be interesting seeing how it play out and if Microsoft can dominate the ARM sector as well or it will be fair share for all.
@skelband
found a no-name usb SD reader a while back that had a cute penguin in the corner of the blister pack insert.
found a no-name usb SD reader a while back that had a cute penguin in the corner of the blister pack insert.
On the other hand, the Netgear Stora (NAS drive) says on the box it supports Linux, but it requires you to run a silly program on Windows or Mac to initialize it (as far as I could find out).
Yeh, The usual blaming Linux for closed source driver woes.
When he should be blaming the manufacturers.
He did get one thing right though AMD/ATI drivers are just plain awfull I have a 2 year old card that still isn't properly supported by the closed Catalyst driver but I don't blame Linux nope that lies at AMD's door for their exceedingly poor Linux support.
When he should be blaming the manufacturers.
He did get one thing right though AMD/ATI drivers are just plain awfull I have a 2 year old card that still isn't properly supported by the closed Catalyst driver but I don't blame Linux nope that lies at AMD's door for their exceedingly poor Linux support.
Quoting:Steven, take a look at teamviewer: http://www.teamviewer.com/en/index.aspx
It's a Windows app, but it works under wine, and they even packaged it so you could install it directly.
Teamviewer has full support for Linux. I used an RPM for my Unity Linux box the other day and they have Debs as well for Debian/Ubuntu/Mint.
Yes TeamViewer is fully cross platform I have the Ubuntu version installed on my machine.
Quoting:Steven, take a look at teamviewer: http://www.teamviewer.com/en/index.aspx
I will look into that. If I understood better how to configure it (machine on the local network, doesn't have its own Internet IP), I'd try TightVNC or some other remote-desktop app.
Post a comment
A free account is needed to post. Write your comment here first: your text is kept in this browser while you sign up or log in, and is waiting for you when you come back.
Your message:Markdown: **bold**, *italic*, [text](https://link), - lists, > quotes, $x^2$ for math. Formatting help
Sign up and post (it is free) or Log in and post
Do you ever listen to yourselves?
Seems like the basic argument is,
"It works for me so it should be good enough for everybody else."
That worked pretty well for the Model T. Until people had choices.