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openSUSE 12.2 Release Schedule
The openSUSE Project releases new versions of its openSUSE Linux operating system every 8 months, with a life cycle of 18 months for each one. |
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Comments (23)
3 earlier comments in the full thread.
@Fettoosh........There was a time when you really looked forward to the latest version of KDE. You simply accepted that it would be faster, more stable and able to do things more efficiently. As a result, you automatically installed the later version knowing you had everything to gain by upgrading. This is no longer the case and trustingly accepting that a new version of KDE4 will comply with those aspects is extremely dangerous and can even lead to data loss if you have not backed up everything very, very carefully (well, we all do that don't we ? :-) )
My new and forced approach when a new version of KDE4 appears requires a test system on which you check to see if your routine operations in your present version still work, and so you have to expend considerable time and effort in checking this out. Consistency of operation was certainly not the case with the move from KDE4.4 to KDE4.7 . The only present answer I have is to keep the older KDE4.4 version running as long as it is stable, doing what I want and continuing to test each "upgrade" of KDE4 extremely thoroughly. To be honest, I am tired, tired, tired of all of these "new, swinging and dancing, glitzy, increasingly complex" upgrades which cause more trouble than they are worth and certainly do not add to the pleasure of using my DE. Speed, stability, simplicity and consistent behaviour from version to version of KDE4 is all I ask. I can only wonder why the developers apparently cannot comply with this - and this is not throwing bricks at them either. But I do wonder.
And from what I see and hear, my perception is that Gnome is thundering down the same path.
My new and forced approach when a new version of KDE4 appears requires a test system on which you check to see if your routine operations in your present version still work, and so you have to expend considerable time and effort in checking this out. Consistency of operation was certainly not the case with the move from KDE4.4 to KDE4.7 . The only present answer I have is to keep the older KDE4.4 version running as long as it is stable, doing what I want and continuing to test each "upgrade" of KDE4 extremely thoroughly. To be honest, I am tired, tired, tired of all of these "new, swinging and dancing, glitzy, increasingly complex" upgrades which cause more trouble than they are worth and certainly do not add to the pleasure of using my DE. Speed, stability, simplicity and consistent behaviour from version to version of KDE4 is all I ask. I can only wonder why the developers apparently cannot comply with this - and this is not throwing bricks at them either. But I do wonder.
And from what I see and hear, my perception is that Gnome is thundering down the same path.
I just upgraded from KDE4.4 to 4.7, and I'm pretty happy with it. There was a big catch however: I needed to delete ~/.kde and ~/.local, as old settings and files in those directories were apparently causing problems with the new version. You can't just stick a brand-new major version on top of the old one and leave the old settings files in place. I had a lot of files in those directories that were several years old even.
I had a lot of problems with my 4.4 version, the biggest being the dbus daemon pegging the CPU at 100%, requiring a logout. I haven't seen it with 4.7.
I had a lot of problems with my 4.4 version, the biggest being the dbus daemon pegging the CPU at 100%, requiring a logout. I haven't seen it with 4.7.
I installed 12.1 on an old Dell at SCALE 10x this weekend, Gnome interface. IT works pretty darn well if I do say so myself..;-)
Quoting:To be honest, I am tired, tired, tired of all of these "new, swinging and dancing, glitzy, increasingly complex" upgrades which cause more trouble than they are worth and certainly do not add to the pleasure of using my DE.
@Ridcully,
I do understand your situation and if you are going to stay with KDE, I really suggest moving to GMail for now because it seems it is going to be a while before KMail 2.0 is back to normal.
In terms of upgrading, I have few older machines I use for testing purposes. Periodically, I clone my production machine to one of those and test the whole thing before I upgrade. That process is still needed for KDE since there are various applications that are still in flux.
I believe one of the things that is keeping the KDE devs so busy is the development that is going on in the KDE Active Desktop area for handheld devices. There is a great deal of attention diversion to the new interface, which Google Android made it the latest hot trend. This diversion is not only harming the desktop, it is also impacting the the development of applications, especially PIMS, which KMail is part of. It seems like all desktop applications are being re-evaluated to be adopted to run on Active Desktops like tablets and handheld devices.
It is both interesting and instructive to see the replies and I thank you all. I apologise for the irritation that seeped into my post above, but it was written at 3.20am in the morning when I was feeling grumpy about not being able to get a decent night's sleep. Slaps wrist and promises to be gooder.
Khamul's problem was one I haven't ever noticed in my installation of KDE4.4 on openSUSE11.3, but Scott's response is excellent and totally consistent with everything I have experienced. I have always found that the underlying skeleton of openSUSE is rarely (if ever) a problem and none of my negative comments above could be thrown at openSUSE 12.1 which installed and ran very nicely. Since Gnome in openSUSE 12.1 ran well, that's even better. My gripes were solely with the DE of KDE4.7
Apart from alteration of icons on the bottom panel, default displays of various items like Dolphin, etc. etc., my biggest concern/gripe has been with KMail which to me is indispensable. Fettoosh may be right, and perhaps GMail is the answer, but then I have looked at what that has changed to, and it doesn't sorta thrill me there either. Nope, on another thread Helios remarked that he is still installing a base OS that is two years old, and it works just as well. And basically, that is the beauty of Linux; it will simply keep running.
So, in the end I come back to my initial concept. KDE4.4 on openSUSE 11.3 does everything I want and does it well. I shall simply sit here like a brooding vulture and maintain the status quo.....BUT.....I shall be happily testing each new iteration of openSUSE with its attendant version of KDE4 and looking forward to the dust to settle and KMail return to its excellent abilities. Sounds like a plan to me.
Khamul's problem was one I haven't ever noticed in my installation of KDE4.4 on openSUSE11.3, but Scott's response is excellent and totally consistent with everything I have experienced. I have always found that the underlying skeleton of openSUSE is rarely (if ever) a problem and none of my negative comments above could be thrown at openSUSE 12.1 which installed and ran very nicely. Since Gnome in openSUSE 12.1 ran well, that's even better. My gripes were solely with the DE of KDE4.7
Apart from alteration of icons on the bottom panel, default displays of various items like Dolphin, etc. etc., my biggest concern/gripe has been with KMail which to me is indispensable. Fettoosh may be right, and perhaps GMail is the answer, but then I have looked at what that has changed to, and it doesn't sorta thrill me there either. Nope, on another thread Helios remarked that he is still installing a base OS that is two years old, and it works just as well. And basically, that is the beauty of Linux; it will simply keep running.
So, in the end I come back to my initial concept. KDE4.4 on openSUSE 11.3 does everything I want and does it well. I shall simply sit here like a brooding vulture and maintain the status quo.....BUT.....I shall be happily testing each new iteration of openSUSE with its attendant version of KDE4 and looking forward to the dust to settle and KMail return to its excellent abilities. Sounds like a plan to me.
I do have to say that I use Gmail, and I really don't like the "new look" they're trying to get everyone to switch to. I'm not looking forward to when they finally force the issue.
@Khamul.......about 2 years ago, I used GMail quite a lot and the interface was close to KMail. I liked it and found it simple to use. Late last year when I was playing with the problems of openSUSE 12.1 and KDE4.7, I looked at the possibility of using GMail, since everything else I wanted in KDE4.7 could be set to my complete satisfaction. I looked at the latest iteration of GMail in horror and wondered what had hit me. None of it made sense and I retired from the field shortly thereafter.
Your note above triggered me into taking a second look and I found that I can get back the classic format which is far more understandable than the "new version". I also found that once you set GMail to the classic format, it stays there if you log out and return........so perhaps Google is collecting a survey of happy/unhappy users based on returns to the classic display. GMail users of the world unite !! If GMail retains the classic format, it becomes a very viable option to KMail as far as I am concerned.
Your note above triggered me into taking a second look and I found that I can get back the classic format which is far more understandable than the "new version". I also found that once you set GMail to the classic format, it stays there if you log out and return........so perhaps Google is collecting a survey of happy/unhappy users based on returns to the classic display. GMail users of the world unite !! If GMail retains the classic format, it becomes a very viable option to KMail as far as I am concerned.
Ridcully wrote:If GMail retains the classic format, it becomes a very viable option to KMail as far as I am concerned.
Except that with gmail your mail storage sits on someone else's server. For me, that is a definite deal-breaker.
> Except that with gmail your mail storage sits on someone else's server. For me, that is a definite deal-breaker.
Use offlineimap to sync it to your local machine.
Use offlineimap to sync it to your local machine.
@Ridcully: Gmail actually did a full-fledged survey; I briefly switched to the "new look", then switched back, and somewhere in there I was asked to take an online survey about my experience. I blasted them for the new interface in all the text boxes. I did mention that I liked the left-hand pane a little better (I can't remember exactly now, but I think it did a better job of showing contacts and folders(/labels) than the current version, but that's about the only thing I found better, the rest was bad. Basically, it seemed like it was more touchscreen-friendly or something, with many fewer messages per unit of screen area than before.
@penguinist: That's a problem, but not a deal-breaker for me. There's some big advantages to having web-based mail, namely the fact that you can access it from anywhere. This has made webmail popular since 1997 or so. I'm not always at my main computer, so this is actually extremely helpful. Google has a few additional advantages with Gmail: 1) their UI is better than anything I've seen before, most especially the ability to tag messages (instead of only being able to file them in folders; with tags you can apply multiple tags to the same message, something you can't do with folders), and its ability to group messages into conversations, which makes things much less cluttered when dealing with lots of emails (unfortunately, this grouping isn't perfect and doesn't group emails together sometimes that it should). 2) having all your emails there lets you search them with Google's search tools, which is extremely fast. If Kmail or some other FOSS app would add these features, I'd seriously consider switching. Finally, it is possible to download all your Gmail mail and archive it just in case; a quick google search will show you how to do that.
@penguinist: That's a problem, but not a deal-breaker for me. There's some big advantages to having web-based mail, namely the fact that you can access it from anywhere. This has made webmail popular since 1997 or so. I'm not always at my main computer, so this is actually extremely helpful. Google has a few additional advantages with Gmail: 1) their UI is better than anything I've seen before, most especially the ability to tag messages (instead of only being able to file them in folders; with tags you can apply multiple tags to the same message, something you can't do with folders), and its ability to group messages into conversations, which makes things much less cluttered when dealing with lots of emails (unfortunately, this grouping isn't perfect and doesn't group emails together sometimes that it should). 2) having all your emails there lets you search them with Google's search tools, which is extremely fast. If Kmail or some other FOSS app would add these features, I'd seriously consider switching. Finally, it is possible to download all your Gmail mail and archive it just in case; a quick google search will show you how to do that.
Jdixson & Khamul stated almost all the reasons I use GMail instead of dealing with the issues in KMail.
Add to those the capability of chat and phone among other things.
Add to those the capability of chat and phone among other things.
Any reason for not using Thunderbird?
@alc........Yes, unless you can show me how it is done. I installed Thunderbird for a look-see last December when I was "swearing to myself" about KMail in KDE4.7. It seems to have a more or less similar structure to KMail and I am sure I could fight my way through it. However, how do you get all your emails over to Tbird ? I couldn't, but perhaps I simply don't understand something. If you can get me onto Thunderbird, I'll dump KMail.....
@ penguinist....it's also why GMail remained for me the last option, but seemed to be being forced upon me. I found that I could finally get KMail in KDE4.7 to actually read the mails when I transferred them over to some godforsaken part of the KMail structure (which I have now forgotten), but little if nothing else would work.
@Fettoosh....and one of the most most most irritating things about these new versions of KMail is that the developers put it into a default display that turns on every "unwanted ability" as far as I am concerned. I don't want my emails threaded, I don't want fancy screens; I just want the old standard KMail interface that was still present in KDE3.5 and which can still be obtained even in KDE4.7 - but by golly, it takes about 10 - 15 minutes of trial and error and fighting your way down menus in order to do it.
@ penguinist....it's also why GMail remained for me the last option, but seemed to be being forced upon me. I found that I could finally get KMail in KDE4.7 to actually read the mails when I transferred them over to some godforsaken part of the KMail structure (which I have now forgotten), but little if nothing else would work.
@Fettoosh....and one of the most most most irritating things about these new versions of KMail is that the developers put it into a default display that turns on every "unwanted ability" as far as I am concerned. I don't want my emails threaded, I don't want fancy screens; I just want the old standard KMail interface that was still present in KDE3.5 and which can still be obtained even in KDE4.7 - but by golly, it takes about 10 - 15 minutes of trial and error and fighting your way down menus in order to do it.
I've been using Thunderbird for a long time, so I never had to do that, but I found a few links that may help.
http://brunocornec.wordpress.com/2011/01/10/migrating-from-k...
Read down into the comments for more help.
And also
[url=https://www.google.com/search?q=importing mail from kmail to thunderbird&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a]https://www.google.com/search?q=importing mail from kmail to...[/url]
Hope it helps.
And also
[url=https://www.google.com/search?q=importing mail from kmail to thunderbird&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a]https://www.google.com/search?q=importing mail from kmail to...[/url]
Hope it helps.
jdixon wrote:Use offlineimap to sync it to your local machine.
You might have misunderstood my point regarding gmail being stored on someone else's server. I'm not wishing that it was in two places (imap syncing will do that) instead I am specifically not wanting a copy of it to be stored on a server that I do not control. I only want storage on a machine that I myself control.
I personally do enjoy the advantages of "cloud" email by running my own cloud. I have one well connected server, a cloud if you will, that maintains all my mail storage running postfix. This server is accessible via imap connections from my various desktops, my notebook, my tablet, and my smartphone. So I do enjoy the benefits of cloud email but I do it in a way that also insures that control remains with me. To me it is one of the great strengths of Linux that such a powerful and valuable architecture can be so easily implemented. Unlike our windows friends, we do have the choice and the means to retain control.
Many thanks both Alc and Penguinist.......To Alc: You have encouraged me enormously and I will give it a go with Thunderbird as an experiment. And to Penguinist, you have networking skills far in advance of anything I have. I have never experimented with or set up a network or server system, and have always been "a lone laptop wolf" as regards Linux. Not that I don't appreciate the incredible complexity of other systems, it is simply that my requirements have never put me in the situation where I needed such a system as you describe. But thanks again, both of you. :-)
> You might have misunderstood my point regarding gmail being stored on someone else's server.
Yes, I failed to understand your point. To be fair though, you weren't particularly clear about your concerns.
I'm well aware of the implications of your mail being stored on a server not under your direct control, especially the legal ones.
Yes, I failed to understand your point. To be fair though, you weren't particularly clear about your concerns.
I'm well aware of the implications of your mail being stored on a server not under your direct control, especially the legal ones.
If you can get your Kmail to Thunderbird sorted out, it should be clear sailing. Once you have it set up, Thunderbird is quite easy to set up on more than one machine with all the same settings. And it really is a nice client.
Because of what I do and the multiple places I do it, Gmail has been a staple of HeliOS since the beginning. It's not easy to brush off Google's freewheeling privacy issues but like most users, I will deal with them due to the fact that their product is about the only one that gives my organization the flexibility we need.
THAT being said, my gmail is backed up to a dedicated server under my desk via Thunderbird on a weekly basis. It took forever for them to come up with a decent client to do so but finally it became so.
Google has bundled some impressive features into Gmail and the calendar itself I would pay for on a subscription basis if we ever had to. Hopefully, the ad revenue and data mining my stuff for Google will keep rolling in and that won't be necessary.
THAT being said, my gmail is backed up to a dedicated server under my desk via Thunderbird on a weekly basis. It took forever for them to come up with a decent client to do so but finally it became so.
Google has bundled some impressive features into Gmail and the calendar itself I would pay for on a subscription basis if we ever had to. Hopefully, the ad revenue and data mining my stuff for Google will keep rolling in and that won't be necessary.
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I agree with Ridcully, KMail team needs to get their act together and fix the new version of KMail. That is why I dropped it and I am using GMail instead.
I am running Kubuntu KDE 4.7.4, I just tried deleting a folder/file and it automatically removed it from both panes, I had this issue with an older version and used to hit reload or F5 to clear it up, what version of KDE are you running? It might be a good time to update soon when KDE 4.8 is released since it is supposed to fix many bugs.
http://kde.org/announcements/announce-4.8-rc2.php