Microsoft tries to recruit me

Is it just me or does ESR's reply seem a bit heavy handed, and egotistical?

Just think it could of all been better phrased, and really doesn't paint the community in a great light.

I thought it was a great reply. Dripping with sarcasm and wit.

Sarcasm is divine. (If you don't believe me, go and read the Book of Job in the Old Testament and read "Gods reply to Job from the whirlwind" - towards the end of the book).

ESR has a wonderful way with words and is passionate about the truth. There's few enough people these days prepared to speak like this, we should treasure them not censor them. Altogether too many pussyfooters about these days... Microsoft deserve no mercy. They crossed the point of no return long long ago.

HERE HERE!! :)

Koriel, it's not just you. And it makes us all look like a bunch of 5 year olds by association. It would seem that as Linux gains more notoriety, our advocate luminaries are more and more promoting *themselves*. Meanwhile, the luminaries that actually get the work done, Torvalds, Morton, et. al. still keep their noses to the grindstone, caring more about their work than about self-promotion.

It is rare for me to say this, because I take a very liberal view of what is real news and what is not, and of what the community really needs to see, whether we like it or not. I take great care not to vote an article off-topic simply because I do not like the content. But the linked article is truly not news.

I agree with Koriel and Bergman. Nothing in the world justifies the language ESR used. One can be sarcastic while staying polite. The only thing it does is make Open Source advocates look bad. As the size of his ego, there's enough to fill the planet with it! At least, RMS, while having somewhat of a temper himself, doesn't need to curse to put it across.

I am extremely accepting when it comes to writing and speaking styles, and don't mind impoliteness, when it's justified. But in this case it wasn't...

sbergman27 - I thought your response was a bit over wrought, having read many of ESR's essays. At worse most tend to be on the sloppy side. However, I took the time to read the full item and it was over the top. The last third or more just should not have been written.

None of us truly knows what MS may be like even five years hence. Therefore, demonizing an entity that in hind sight may be more benign in comparison to the recording oligarchy or the TV/Movie industry is not productive. Moreover, MS may be perhaps less effective than either in corrupting this republic. Not too long ago that role belonged to IBM. Should IBM still be killed? This sort of attack should not be our first response.

When Ballmer and Gates leave the center stage at Microsoft we may find we have friends there too.

I agree the phony news we see in the U.S. and the supposed, overly timid political (and so loyal) opposition party deserve scorn, but ESR shot from the hip. Let MS make its own enemies, which hold a grudge and will take revenge when the opportunity arises. That is, don't make them look reasonable comparative terms.

Back in the day our celebrity advocates did a damn fine job. "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" was excellent. But these days, I have to note that Linux and OSS have become a springboard for self-promotion for some.

Nowadays, Perens gets in a huff when he does not happen to win a seat on a board that he wanted to be on. (How dare they? Look at my credentials! Don't you know WHO I AM?) Raymond parades around the alleged fact that he received a solicitation from Microsoft, and very rudely declined it.

This is all a far, far cry from the grass roots effort that Linux and Linux advocacy used to be.

Please don't get me wrong. The ascension of Linux and OSS in terms of economics and mind-share is good. But just as it is beneficial for the kernel developers to deny the introduction of unnecessary cruft into the kernel, the community also needs to be on the lookout for unnecessary cruft in the form of the useless ego inflation of those purporting to be our official representatives.

There is a bigger problem to the ESR reply than merely style.

Let us imagine a scenario some time in the future, a time when major Microsoft customers have issued ultimatums, stockholders have made noise, foreign governments have shut the bidding doors, whatever...

Somebody in the company gets this message: "Damn. The robber baron days are screwed and we aren't going to make any money unless we figure out how to live in the world as it is."

That somebody notices that, even if it's no longer in the extortion category, there's still good money to be made by playing well with others and taking advantage of a huge installed base.

So -- somebody asks, "how to do it? Maybe we should look for some people who know how and who have some credibility..."

ESR's approach simply assumes once bad, always bad. He may even be right in the case of Microsoft. As a pr guy, however, Raymond should damned well know that the "I don't care what you do, you still stink like poo" approach does nothing but make him look petty, insincere, and substantially less than brilliant.

I don't, however, share Steve's concern that it will rub off on all of us. It'll stick pretty close to ESR because Linux is no longer stuck off in the oddball niche mystery doodad closet. OSS is mainstream, and even ESR going brain-dead can't slow it down.

But just as it is beneficial for the kernel developers to deny the introduction of unnecessary cruft into the kernel, the community also needs to be on the lookout for unnecessary cruft in the form of the useless ego inflation of those purporting to be our official representatives.

Bergman, the community is ruled on the basis of meritocracy. As soon as Perens and Raymond lose their merrit, they will be demoted by the community. This means we are selfregulating on the basis of the benifit we put into the community.

Ego inflation is real, but it will cause no long term harm. If some of our luminaries become more wind than substance, the community will distance themselves.

If ego is more important than furthering the common goal, it is only a matter of time before the community says "Perens and Raymond? Who are they?".

haha, "The ego has landed." good one. :)

I also wish ESR had been a bit more polite, but it was a fun, cathartic read. Either way, the whole thing is hilarious, especially since most tech recruiters are just as clueless as the one who contacted ESR.

dino: how do you know that this isn't the day you describe?

"But just as it is beneficial for the kernel developers to deny the introduction of unnecessary cruft into the kernel, the community also needs to be on the lookout for unnecessary cruft in the form of the useless ego inflation of those purporting to be our official representatives."

"Bergman, the community is ruled on the basis of meritocracy. As soon as Perens and Raymond lose their merrit, they will be demoted by the community. This means we are selfregulating on the basis of the benifit we put into the community."

It seems to me that the self-regulation you speak of is exactly what sbergman is calling for. I took his response to mean that he feels that ESR's response not only is not benefiting the community, it's hurting it.

Such a contrast, yesterday I attended a presentation by MySQL. They attempted to persuade me to use their product and buy their services on the technical merits and value of those products and services. The never once called Oracle or Microsoft clueless or stupid. And then there's ESR...... Which approach do you think will play better in the boardroom?

DT

Paulie --

That is exactly my point. You never know until someday after the day has passed. Then you say, "We didn't know it then, but..."

Smart-assed cynicism is fun, but it ain't always useful.

Those who believe this rant will influence the adoption of FLOSS, they don't know its real value. Those who sway from FLOSS because of this rant, they don't deserve to use it.

Abe -- You are exactly right, especially among the people who folks on this board seem most concerned about.

Business people who choose FOSS do so because it makes business sense, and no gun-waving cowboy loudmouth is going to change that equation.

ESR is free to his opinion and he is free to make as big a fool of himself as he damned well pleases. It has no impact on the good things -- more than a few -- that he's done. It has no impact on the cold business logic of using FOSS.

ESR is packin' iron... 'nuff said.