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HP to ship Ubuntu PCs, serious about Linux
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Comments (15)
Correct me if I am wrong, but ...
We are asinine partly because we allowed MS to lock us in. MS had this chance for some time now, but the genie is out of the bottle.
I have seen HP commitments to Linux couple years back when my friend and I bought two desktops with Mandrake. They were $125 each less than the Windows based ones. Today, HP has their servers and all their desktop models available with either Linux or FreeDOS and without any MS Windows tax. Never mind the "HP recommends Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional" for now; they are a company and still need to make money. See the links
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF04a/12454-64287-89... http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF04a/12454-64287-89...
With the lock-in MS had on the users, they also had ALL the OEMs locked-in too. In additions to the contractual agreements, MS enticed many of the vendors with generous deals. Let's face it, MS was the only "dealer" in town and had the free hand to demand and do whatever they liked.
FOSS changed and continue to change the landscape. First it was IBM, today, it is HP, tomorrow it is Dell and others. Dell is not going to allow HP to build a strong presence without reacting to it.
But let's not be naive, these OEMs and companies will do what they think is best for themselves and they see the landscape changing. They are not switching for the love of FOSS, but rather because they have to, otherwise they will fade away. It is taking time, but it will happen.
MS is very entrenched in the US corporate world and very popular with the home users. It is taking more time than the rest of the world because we are a lot more dependent and sophisticated in using IT in every field. It is much harder for us to switch without impacting our normal business process than the rest of the world who is not yet deep enough into IT and not as much dependent on it.
The MA initiative to mandate OpenDocument format is a major milestone in the US on the path of adopting FOSS. It is not Munich, or any other major deployment of FOSS in the workd. This initiative will prove to be the critical mass in the path of adopting FOSS in the US.
The best thing we can do now at this time is grab this opportunity to help make this initiative a nation wide trend.
I have seen HP commitments to Linux couple years back when my friend and I bought two desktops with Mandrake. They were $125 each less than the Windows based ones. Today, HP has their servers and all their desktop models available with either Linux or FreeDOS and without any MS Windows tax. Never mind the "HP recommends Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional" for now; they are a company and still need to make money. See the links
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF04a/12454-64287-89... http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF04a/12454-64287-89...
With the lock-in MS had on the users, they also had ALL the OEMs locked-in too. In additions to the contractual agreements, MS enticed many of the vendors with generous deals. Let's face it, MS was the only "dealer" in town and had the free hand to demand and do whatever they liked.
FOSS changed and continue to change the landscape. First it was IBM, today, it is HP, tomorrow it is Dell and others. Dell is not going to allow HP to build a strong presence without reacting to it.
But let's not be naive, these OEMs and companies will do what they think is best for themselves and they see the landscape changing. They are not switching for the love of FOSS, but rather because they have to, otherwise they will fade away. It is taking time, but it will happen.
MS is very entrenched in the US corporate world and very popular with the home users. It is taking more time than the rest of the world because we are a lot more dependent and sophisticated in using IT in every field. It is much harder for us to switch without impacting our normal business process than the rest of the world who is not yet deep enough into IT and not as much dependent on it.
The MA initiative to mandate OpenDocument format is a major milestone in the US on the path of adopting FOSS. It is not Munich, or any other major deployment of FOSS in the workd. This initiative will prove to be the critical mass in the path of adopting FOSS in the US.
The best thing we can do now at this time is grab this opportunity to help make this initiative a nation wide trend.
Abe:
>But let's not be naive, these OEMs and companies will do what they think is best for themselves and they see the landscape changing.
Exactly. Used to be that FOSS types considered that a bad thing, but I think we are (for the most part) past that now.
Companies exist because somebody had an idea to make money. Families gotta be fed, mortgages gotta be paid, etc. Neither good nor evil. Just a fact of life.
If HP or Dell leans heavily in the Microsoft direction, it's because, in their business judgment, that's what makes sense to do. They could be right; they could be wrong. They're just trying to do the best thing for their business.
>But let's not be naive, these OEMs and companies will do what they think is best for themselves and they see the landscape changing.
Exactly. Used to be that FOSS types considered that a bad thing, but I think we are (for the most part) past that now.
Companies exist because somebody had an idea to make money. Families gotta be fed, mortgages gotta be paid, etc. Neither good nor evil. Just a fact of life.
If HP or Dell leans heavily in the Microsoft direction, it's because, in their business judgment, that's what makes sense to do. They could be right; they could be wrong. They're just trying to do the best thing for their business.
Dino,
What you say is perfectly correct however we should never forget that MS holds a close to monopoly whip hand in the market and constantly uses this to their advantage in a quite socially destructive fashion (sorry for the rant ;-)). It is a pity that the antitrust case did not break that uncompetitive power in the late 1990s.... My point is that there are macro issues as well as micro.
richo123 -
We should never forget the monopoly power of MS, if for no other reason than to cut vendors a little slack. That's a mighty nasty beast they have to face.
The nature of FOSS is hard for a monopoly to grapple with, however. We'll be okie-dokie.
We should never forget the monopoly power of MS, if for no other reason than to cut vendors a little slack. That's a mighty nasty beast they have to face.
The nature of FOSS is hard for a monopoly to grapple with, however. We'll be okie-dokie.
Dino,
By all means cut the vendors slack however don't give up on doing the right thing on a macro scale. In other words reopen the the antitrust case and bust MS's balls. Teddy Roosevelt who introduced this legislation to defeat Standard Oil must be rolling in his grave....
By all means cut the vendors slack however don't give up on doing the right thing on a macro scale. In other words reopen the the antitrust case and bust MS's balls. Teddy Roosevelt who introduced this legislation to defeat Standard Oil must be rolling in his grave....
> [HYPERLINK@h10010.www1.hp.com]
> [HYPERLINK@h10010.www1.hp.com]
Laptops?!?
Laptops?!?
HP made a pretty good laptop, the nx5000 last year and made a big ad campaign about. It is was available for purchase on their web site but no longer. I don't know what happened but it could be MS arm twisting, ran out of it, or not enough demand. Any how entertain yourself with the following links or call HP and ask them about it if interested in purchasing one. Keep in mind that, there are many HowTos on the Internet to install Linux on HP laptops. Google is your friend to find them.
http://news.com.com/1606-2-5298692.html http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/321957-64295-8... http://enterprise.linux.com/article.pl?sid=04/09/23/1627251&... http://trends.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/09/23/1342232&...
http://news.com.com/1606-2-5298692.html http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF05a/321957-64295-8... http://enterprise.linux.com/article.pl?sid=04/09/23/1627251&... http://trends.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/09/23/1342232&...
mvermeer:
I found one link for you, but I hope you read German.
http://www.tuxhardware.de/product1017/product_info.html?osCs...
And this is a PDF Docs on how to install it. http://h10018.www1.hp.com/wwsolutions/linux/products/clients...
Certified Hardware http://developer.novell.com/yes/80551.htm
I know we expect HP to have full support, but I suppose they have their reasons.
And this is a PDF Docs on how to install it. http://h10018.www1.hp.com/wwsolutions/linux/products/clients...
Certified Hardware http://developer.novell.com/yes/80551.htm
I know we expect HP to have full support, but I suppose they have their reasons.
Yeah. The nx5000 was terminated also here, and the nx6110 and nx6120 are only offered with Windows. So that would be mail order, with luck from within the EU.
Let's never forget when a company, especially a johnnie-come-lately, claims to be 'supporting us': it is us supporting them!
Perhaps it is with offering Linux as with Putin-critical journalism in Russia: Putin doesn't mind as long as nobody notices...
Here in the newspaper ads, when selling laptops, it's invariably "HP recommends..." (do people really believe that crap? And is a still well-reputed company like HP really putting their name on the line like that?), but when selling server stuff, the phrase is lacking. As is any reference to an operating system, Linux or other. The absence is so conspicuous it's almost a trademark infringement ;-/
Perhaps it is with offering Linux as with Putin-critical journalism in Russia: Putin doesn't mind as long as nobody notices...
Here in the newspaper ads, when selling laptops, it's invariably "HP recommends..." (do people really believe that crap? And is a still well-reputed company like HP really putting their name on the line like that?), but when selling server stuff, the phrase is lacking. As is any reference to an operating system, Linux or other. The absence is so conspicuous it's almost a trademark infringement ;-/
HP is confused...
I don't know what there state of mind is one place HP/IBM etc show how much they love Linux on other side, we see daily ads from these ppl in the newspaper showing in bold font "HP/IBM recommends M$ winblows for bussiness", this is of course harmful to Linux.
Not as harmful as not offering it at all. See my other post under the 1st thread. We have to be realistic and appreciative to situations. Companies (officers and share holders) have their purpose and responsibilities, they are not individuals who have the freedom to take risks.
Abe -
The other side of that is, sometimes and for some things, Windows XP is a decent recommendation. Last year I had to bite my tongue and grimace while I installed XP Pro on my wife's notebook. Except for client-owned loaners, it was the first Windows computer in our house and on our net since 1998. Trouble is, she needed some specialized software for her business that couldn't be coerced to work without it.
Sometimes life sucks, but the alternative is worse.
The other side of that is, sometimes and for some things, Windows XP is a decent recommendation. Last year I had to bite my tongue and grimace while I installed XP Pro on my wife's notebook. Except for client-owned loaners, it was the first Windows computer in our house and on our net since 1998. Trouble is, she needed some specialized software for her business that couldn't be coerced to work without it.
Sometimes life sucks, but the alternative is worse.
I experienced the same at home and at work.
At home we have 3 desktops and one laptop. My desktop came with Linux; the other two I worked hard on my wife and younger kids to get them converted to linux. My kids and wife now don't even want to see Windows. I run Suse by the way. The laptop, which my oldest daughter uses for college, I just couldn't because not only they don't support Linux, they don't even allow it on their network. Duel boot was not practical but she does use FireFox and OpenOffice instead. I wasn't going to fetch $200 for useless MS Office.
I work for a oil company. I manage and support Advanced Process Control applications. They run VMS on Alpha workstations. I don't recall any issues for the last 9 years since they were upgraded from VAX hardware. Couple years ago, we started thinking about the future path since VMS is going away (hasn't yet, it is still being used quite a bit for many critical manufacturing applications). Well, the vendor (Honeywell and others) decided to base there systems and instrumentation on Windows. Not much choice here. Any how, we are still trying to figure a way to make Windows as secure enough as VMS. You wont imagine the extra cost involved in terms of network isolation yet keeping communication available for engineers and technical people without losing any functionality, applications interfaces, and data acquisition. The company is MS committed to the point that, an application we use runs on Windows with IIS. The vendor moved their newer versions, believe it or not, to Linux and Apache server. My company delayed the upgrades to latest version because Linux is not in the standard (some PHB). That was happening for while, now things are changing.
Without going into details, there is a need to upgrade some major instrumentation. The applications they preferred and like runs on Linux (yes!) so things are starting to change. The other application that is on hold for upgrade, it is getting critical and needs to be upgraded. Oracle support and commitment to Linux is starting to have an influence. Yes, it will take time, but things are starting to happen, at least in my corner of the world.
At home we have 3 desktops and one laptop. My desktop came with Linux; the other two I worked hard on my wife and younger kids to get them converted to linux. My kids and wife now don't even want to see Windows. I run Suse by the way. The laptop, which my oldest daughter uses for college, I just couldn't because not only they don't support Linux, they don't even allow it on their network. Duel boot was not practical but she does use FireFox and OpenOffice instead. I wasn't going to fetch $200 for useless MS Office.
I work for a oil company. I manage and support Advanced Process Control applications. They run VMS on Alpha workstations. I don't recall any issues for the last 9 years since they were upgraded from VAX hardware. Couple years ago, we started thinking about the future path since VMS is going away (hasn't yet, it is still being used quite a bit for many critical manufacturing applications). Well, the vendor (Honeywell and others) decided to base there systems and instrumentation on Windows. Not much choice here. Any how, we are still trying to figure a way to make Windows as secure enough as VMS. You wont imagine the extra cost involved in terms of network isolation yet keeping communication available for engineers and technical people without losing any functionality, applications interfaces, and data acquisition. The company is MS committed to the point that, an application we use runs on Windows with IIS. The vendor moved their newer versions, believe it or not, to Linux and Apache server. My company delayed the upgrades to latest version because Linux is not in the standard (some PHB). That was happening for while, now things are changing.
Without going into details, there is a need to upgrade some major instrumentation. The applications they preferred and like runs on Linux (yes!) so things are starting to change. The other application that is on hold for upgrade, it is getting critical and needs to be upgraded. Oracle support and commitment to Linux is starting to have an influence. Yes, it will take time, but things are starting to happen, at least in my corner of the world.
Abe --
Sounds encouraging. I'm aware of at least one case of a corporate customer refusing to take a Windows version of a major product, preferring to wait for the promised Linux version.
Sounds encouraging. I'm aware of at least one case of a corporate customer refusing to take a Windows version of a major product, preferring to wait for the promised Linux version.
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Is this just another instance where it will not be shown to USAians, because we are (as...)ians?