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Sun Recasts Java Licensing for GNU/Linux
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Comments (7)
I had first heard that this was to be released under GPL, now it appears that Sun is releasing under DLJ? Is Sun trying to rewrite the GPL, and, why? I don't understand why Debian is even considering this for inclusion in the standard repos??? Sounds like Sun is up to their same old tricks.
jimf:
There was some discussion of this on the Debian lists. Jonathan Corbet of LWN pointed to: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.general/100...
Someone posted a followup, showing where Sun responded: http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2006/05/msg00145.html
So far as I know, the packages are available in non-free.
There was some discussion of this on the Debian lists. Jonathan Corbet of LWN pointed to: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.debian.devel.general/100...
Someone posted a followup, showing where Sun responded: http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2006/05/msg00145.html
So far as I know, the packages are available in non-free.
This is silly...it's the CDDL all over again. Small little variances in license that have a bigger impact...but all enough to be open source. Then Sun can ride along the open source catch phrase to sound cool.
If you read the thread, the main problem is that the license has language in the README and FAQ sections that need to be incorporated into the license to make them legally binding...otherwise many debian deveolopers are against it.
Good stuff on specific disagreements here: http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2006/05/msg00163.html
It seems that a lot of debian developers are sour to this...some even making snide, curt remarks. It would be better to educate them to all things Debian instead of pushing them away...mainly because we can count on nothing that all developers don't agree on making it into Debian...so there is no worry...if the license sucks, it and the product are out for inclusion.
I hate seeing that...developers making comments like that. Reminds me of the elitist views that some distro forums had in the past. Linux is for everyone no matter your experience level because anyone can download it. It would be better to educate Sun on this and show them what they can expect.
I look at it like this: You can buy a Porsche Cayenne S and ride it around town and have a grand old time in it...but people shouldn't get pissed off if you don't floor it doing the 0-60 in under 6 seconds all the time. That's what I see...elitists getting pissed off at people who haven't even begun to figure out that Linux is their Porsche Cayenne. Better to educate than to alienate.
If you read the thread, the main problem is that the license has language in the README and FAQ sections that need to be incorporated into the license to make them legally binding...otherwise many debian deveolopers are against it.
Good stuff on specific disagreements here: http://lists.debian.org/debian-legal/2006/05/msg00163.html
It seems that a lot of debian developers are sour to this...some even making snide, curt remarks. It would be better to educate them to all things Debian instead of pushing them away...mainly because we can count on nothing that all developers don't agree on making it into Debian...so there is no worry...if the license sucks, it and the product are out for inclusion.
I hate seeing that...developers making comments like that. Reminds me of the elitist views that some distro forums had in the past. Linux is for everyone no matter your experience level because anyone can download it. It would be better to educate Sun on this and show them what they can expect.
I look at it like this: You can buy a Porsche Cayenne S and ride it around town and have a grand old time in it...but people shouldn't get pissed off if you don't floor it doing the 0-60 in under 6 seconds all the time. That's what I see...elitists getting pissed off at people who haven't even begun to figure out that Linux is their Porsche Cayenne. Better to educate than to alienate.
devnet:
The good news is the dialogue going on between Sun and Debian. Either they're serious or it will just fizzle over time.
The good news is the dialogue going on between Sun and Debian. Either they're serious or it will just fizzle over time.
> The good news is the dialogue going on between Sun and Debian. Either they're serious or it will just fizzle over time.
I had been following some of that, and, It would appear that Debian Legal is being quite reasonable. The thing that bothers me is that Sun seems to still be playing word games, or perhaps I'm just seeing their past history of deceit. In any case, as you say, it will happen or it won't.
I had been following some of that, and, It would appear that Debian Legal is being quite reasonable. The thing that bothers me is that Sun seems to still be playing word games, or perhaps I'm just seeing their past history of deceit. In any case, as you say, it will happen or it won't.
Making snide remarks is the Debian way.
It seems to me that Sun has not had anything in the form of consistent, focused leadership for some time. Hopefully that is changing, and they'll actually get somewhere instead of rebounding like a pinball all the time. Just releasing the code isn't going to make magic good things happen.
There is an interesting chapter in the book "Open Sources 2.0" about what happened when Netscape open-sourced their browser code. It's a complex and difficult process, though in Netscape's case it was aggravated by the sheer volume of the code involved, and the poor quality. It also involved integrating two completely different development styles, and managing the many egos and personalities. It's not easy to give up your baby.
It seems to me that Sun has not had anything in the form of consistent, focused leadership for some time. Hopefully that is changing, and they'll actually get somewhere instead of rebounding like a pinball all the time. Just releasing the code isn't going to make magic good things happen.
There is an interesting chapter in the book "Open Sources 2.0" about what happened when Netscape open-sourced their browser code. It's a complex and difficult process, though in Netscape's case it was aggravated by the sheer volume of the code involved, and the poor quality. It also involved integrating two completely different development styles, and managing the many egos and personalities. It's not easy to give up your baby.
> Making snide remarks is the Debian way.
Well, actually that aspect of Debian has gotten better. But they still pop out of the woodwork at times.
Well, actually that aspect of Debian has gotten better. But they still pop out of the woodwork at times.
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