Help! I got my first job interview
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| Sander_Marechal Feb 04, 2007 11:39 PM EDT |
Hey guys (and gals), I need some help. I have a job interview tomorrow for the position of "programmer / business analyst" for a mid-size web development company (50-100 people). Truth be told, I never had a real job interview before. Ever. So I have no clue what to expect. All I ever did was a short interview at a logistics company for a practical term when I was still studying at the university. After I graduated I ended up working there without an interview and I've moved with the company each time it was sold. The job description is kind of vague (typical HR-speak) but it looks like it's for a position in a small team of programmers that builds the toys and framework that the rest of the company uses to build websites for clients. They ask for 3 years programming experience (language unspecified) and knowledge of PHP, XML, MySQL and HTML. What else do I know? Uhh... I'll be interviewed by their senior HR lead (a very nice sounding lady) and the senior/lead programmer. And they either want me real bad or they have trouble filling positions because I was called for an interview within two hours of sending my CV and motivation (for a different position -- junior programmer) and they hadn't bother reading my CV (because the HR lady kept asking me questions I answered in my CV, like "Do the terms PHP and MySQL mean anything to you?"). So, what can I expect? I've never had a job interview, let alone for a programming position (I'm educated as a business engineer). What kind of questions could they ask me? What should I bring, except for a spare copy of my letter, CV and a notepad + pen? Suffice to say I'm pretty nervous about all of this :-) Thanks in advance people! |
| swbrown Feb 05, 2007 1:16 AM EDT |
Dunno, I've never gone through a real one either, but I usually get to filter people based on their resumes, and what I usually do for programmers is to Google their names/emails. It's nearly impossible to be a decent programmer and come up absolutely blank re programming on search engines - it's been a remarkably accurate metric. Actual, tangible things you've created that you can point to are worth infinitely more than whatever could be put on a resume. I basically ignore all the "I'm experienced in (blah) languages, (blah) tools, I worked for (blah), I was part of (blah) projects" etc. as it's all the same, is often a list of companies that wanted rid of you, and tells you almost nothing when the question to be answered is "Can this person actually /do/ stuff, and can they work in a group environment?". |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 05, 2007 2:02 AM EDT |
Well, in that case I should be allright then :-) Google give 11600 hits on my name (in quotes), of which one entry halfway down page 11 isn't really about me, and my e-mail address gives 277 hits, all me. And most of my stuff can be downloaded from my website. |
| SFN Feb 05, 2007 5:02 AM EDT |
I've been through a few plus I've conducted a few. There are two things to concentrate on. Facts and image. The facts should be simple. Who are you? What can you do? What have you done? How did you get to where you are? Don't lie about any of this. If your skills are good (and I don't mean amazing, I mean good) they'll be better than most people's. Of course, other people could be lying about their skills but that will end up being their problem. The image stuff is harder, though it shouldn't be. It's just like what you always hear people say about dating, except that with job interviews it works - be yourself. Be confident and comfortable about who you are. This will even play into how you answer the questions about the facts. Take the question, how did you get where you are? You could say, "all I ever did was a short interview at a logistics company for a practical term when I was still studying at the university. After I graduated I ended up working there without an interview and I've moved with the company each time it was sold." No job for you. Why? Because according to you, you got a job by default. Instead, explain what it was about you that made them hire you in the first place. Be a little humble about it ("I guess I had the skills they were looking for") but don't short sell yourself. The image part comes in explaining why you stayed on all those years. Presumably, they didn't keep you because they were unable to get rid of you. They kept you because they wanted to keep you. Figure out why they wanted to keep you and use that to your advantage. Back to the be yourself thing. Here's a story from the last time I hired someone. I had two equally qualified candidates for the same position. They both had about the same amount of training, the same amount of experience. They were pretty much equals. Their one difference was their personality. One was very blank. Very professional but stiff. You got the impression that if she smiled, her face would crack. The other was polite and courteous but...um...diffferent. He was dressed professionally except for an Austin Powers tie. He laughed. We talked about things other than computers. Since the qualifications were the same for both, I hired him on personality alone. I've never regretted it. When you get interviewed, just like when you go on a first date, you're judged on the whole package. Since you can't possibly anticipate what the interviewer will be looking for in every aspect (or more importantly, what the employer will be looking for in every aspect forever) you just have to represent accurately. That way they know what they are getting and you know that they know they're getting you. |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 05, 2007 5:38 AM EDT |
That's good advice, thanks. A follow-up question if you don't mind: Is there anything in particular about applying for a programmer job? I've read the (sometimes hilarious) accounts of applicants having to take programming tests at their interviews. Is that commonplace? Or is that something only the really big players that attract lots of applicants do? How technical can I expect it to be? I can develop quite well in PHP but I always have a tab open to php.net to check the exact argument order and things like that (PHP is notorious for it's many inconsistencies. E.g. some search functions take (needle, haystack) while others want (haystack, needle), etcetera). |
| SFN Feb 05, 2007 5:58 AM EDT |
I've only ever had to hire someone with an eye towards their programming abilities once. I was fortunate in that instance in that a couple of the people were able to show me actual examples of their work - websites, apps, etc.. One even brought examples in on a CD. He did a nice little presentation about it, actually. This was kind of slick. He starts out by saying that he had a request to create an app that did X and had requirements Y from the Marketing department but that the higher-ups wanted Z restrictions. He explained what was asked of him in detail then showed me the app he created. The great thing about this was that it showed that he could not only program but that he could understand customer (or in this case, employer) requests and knew how to turn them into something tangible. Yeah, we hired him. |
| number6x Feb 05, 2007 6:10 AM EDT |
You'll probably have several interviews. Some technical, some non-technical. Be honest and relaxed. If you don't know something, don't try to fake it, just say you don't know. If you do know how you would find out about it (man page, Google, what ever) mention that. Talk about some of the accomplishments you are proud of. Stress times when you had to fiure out the problem and design a solution yourself. I like to add a story about something I've done wrong and, as a result, have learned from. Mostly just be relaxed an confident. Have the attitude that they should want to hire you, not an attitude like you are desperate for them to pick you. Good Luck! |
| SFN Feb 05, 2007 6:14 AM EDT |
Sorry. I totally glossed over this:Quoting:How technical can I expect it to be? I can develop quite well in PHP but I always have a tab open to php.net to check the exact argument order and things like that (PHP is notorious for it's many inconsistencies. E.g. some search functions take (needle, haystack) while others want (haystack, needle), etcetera). That's all going to come down to the interviewer. Personally, I don't care about how you get it done. I care about whether or not you can get it done. Of course, if it takes forever to get it done because you have to look everything up, that's another story but all things being equal, I'm more concerned with the end result. I'm willing to take some chances to get a good employee. I'm fully aware that sometimes those chances don't pay off. The best way to deal with this though is to, again, just be sure of yourself. If that's how you do it, say so. If they have a problem with that, it's not going to be a good fit. However, you may want to get your skills up to the point where you don't need to do that. A lot of interviewers are jerks and will insist they know how you should be doing your job even though they couldn't do your job if their life depended on it. |
| DarrenR114 Feb 05, 2007 8:05 AM EDT |
Though you noted that you don't think they read your resume, they may very well have. Interviewers will often ask questions that were obviously answered in a resume (CV) to see if you're just blowing smoke with buzzwords or if you really know your stuff. A lot of "Microsoft Certified" people don't really know the difference between a named pipe and shared memory. For instance, I'm often asked if I have experience with TCP/IP, and it's down in black and white on my resume that I do. I don't worry about it because I used to do the same thing when I conducted interviews (eg. "What's the difference between integration and regression testing?") I was often tempted to ask really in depth questions like "Does working a minimum of 60 hours a week for 60% of the usual pay rate really appeal to you?" Be aware, a question like "How do you feel about working after hours and on weekends?" translates to "How do you feel about earning slave wages while making the cheapskate owner rich?" If the IT staff has a seniority of maybe a year with 3 years being considered "old timer," be sure to keep your resume up to date. |
| tuxchick Feb 05, 2007 8:20 AM EDT |
Bathe. Brush teeth- all of them, not just the ones that show. Wash AND comb hair. Wear nice suit. Shine shoes. No cologne- lots of folks are allergic. Make eye contact and speak audibly. Listen- remember, conversation is like a symmetric key exchange. OK, so you don't need this kind of advice. I've interviewed bales of geeks who sure did need it. :) |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 05, 2007 8:48 AM EDT |
Re: suit. I'm not going to. I'm afraid I'm overdressed if I show up in a full suit. If they're geeks (like me) they'll intrinsically distrust a techie in a suit. I've decided to wear my nice dark-blue jeans with the light yellow/orangy shirt and black jacket that belong to my suit. Think that'll do to? |
| jdixon Feb 05, 2007 8:53 AM EDT |
> I've decided to wear my nice dark-blue jeans with the light yellow/orangy shirt and black jacket that belong to my suit. Well, I'd recommend dress pants rather than jeans. |
| jimf Feb 05, 2007 9:01 AM EDT |
And a tie :P |
| DarrenR114 Feb 05, 2007 9:04 AM EDT |
Quoting: Re: suit. I'm not going to. I'm afraid I'm overdressed if I show up in a full suit. If they're geeks (like me) they'll intrinsically distrust a techie in a suit. I've decided to wear my nice dark-blue jeans with the light yellow/orangy shirt and black jacket that belong to my suit. NO. Jeans to an interview for IT positions is *never* appropriate. If you don't know the dress code, a 2-piece suit (suit jacket w/ matching pants) with a shirt and tie is the way to go. If you know the dress code, you might risk going with "one step above". Meaning: If they have t-shirt and jeans, then you would go with a shirt and tie, with dress slacks and shined shoes. If they require shirt and tie, then you go with full suit. If you don't have a nice suit (that fits) then you might go with just a blazer and dress pants with shirt and tie. But your best bet is to go with a nice suit. Most tech people conducting interviews have been through this before, and will not think less of you because of it. In fact, they may think less of you if you don't. Wearing a suit tells them two things: you respect them in their position, and you're willing to go to extra lengths to fill the position. One thing I might add to the list that Tuxchick gave you: No jewelry, except a wedding ring (if you're married) and a nice watch. You may think the stud through your tongue and nose is all about expressing yourself, but for most companies, that's too much information about you. Earrings for men are iffy - I know I've passed over otherwise qualified candidates because I took it as a sign they didn't want to do what was needed to get the job. One more thing - if you know how, wear a real tie and not a clip-on. The main point is this - you don't get more than one chance to make a good first impression. |
| tuxchick Feb 05, 2007 9:13 AM EDT |
Every time I see anyone wearing tongue or nose studs, I think of the scene in Terminator 3 where the hawt blonde eviller-than-ever Terminator gets stuck to the giant magnatron. Imagine being stuck by your tongue... |
| jimf Feb 05, 2007 9:13 AM EDT |
> But your best bet is to go with a nice suit Absolutely, in the Business world this =s respect and interest. |
| jimf Feb 05, 2007 9:33 AM EDT |
> Every time I see anyone wearing tongue or nose studs Damn TC!... and, I always imagined you with a piercing ... /me ducks and runs very fast :D |
| tuxchick Feb 05, 2007 10:48 AM EDT |
pshaw, jimf, I think anyone who pokes unnecessary holes in their body is someone with way too much time on their hands. Anyway, attitude is more powerful, which I believe you already confirmed. :) |
| SFN Feb 05, 2007 11:02 AM EDT |
I have to second/third/whatever we are up to on the "no jeans" rule. I would never hire anybody that came to an interview in jeans. Not because I have any problem with jeans or being casual. If we could, I'd wear jeans everyday that it was too cold to wear gym shorts. But showing up to an interview in jeans shows a complete lack of interest in doing the basic things that everyone is expected to do without thinking about it. I had a boss once that told me, "wearing jeans to a job interview is like farting on a date. We all know that we all do it but if you can't be expected to hold it for that long, what else is wrong with you?" As for the suit, if you really think the suit will be a problem I suppose you can go without it but definitely wear a tie. Just hope that someone with your same qualifications doesn't come along who's dressed nicer. |
| jdixon Feb 05, 2007 11:45 AM EDT |
I have to agree with everyone else that a suit is the best if you have one. If not, at least dress pants and a shirt. I personally hate ties, so I'm willing to risk not wearing one, but that's me. |
| SamShazaam Feb 05, 2007 11:54 AM EDT |
The general rule for dress is to be dressed slightly better than everyone else in the room but look like you are ready to go to work in an instant. I suggest that you mentally make a list of the ten most likely questions you will be asked during the interview and develop good-sounding answers to each of them. Items such as "Why do you want to join our firm?" or "Tell us about your last job." are popular. It is best not to stumble or seem clumsy if you can avoid it. In spite of this expect some curve balls to be thrown at you. It is likely they want to make you mildly uncomfortable to see your reaction. |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 05, 2007 12:47 PM EDT |
Okay, good news, bad news:Quoting:No jewelry, except a wedding ring (if you're married) and a nice watch. I have no jewelry. Not even a wedding ring or a watch (I hate watches. I have a mobile phone to tell the time and track my appointments -- which ofcourse will stay in my car tomorrow). Also, no tattoos or anything. I do have long hair and big sideburns, but they'll be trimmed down to 1-2mm in the morning. Quoting:NO. Jeans to an interview for IT positions is *never* appropriate. If you don't know the dress code, a 2-piece suit (suit jacket w/ matching pants) with a shirt and tie is the way to go. I'm afraid I'll be forced to chance it with the jeans. I own three suits. One is a granite coloured smoking with a vertical stripe. One is a really nice high quality 3-piece black suit and one a slightly cheaper 2-piece blue suit. I also have a dark grey woolen jacket. I can't wear the smoking ofcourse. I don't fit into the pants of the black one (I gained quite a bit in the last 3 months) and the blue suit is at the dry cleaners due to a wild party. They open at 9:30h which is the exact time my interview starts :-/ The grey striped pants from the smoking match horribly to the woolen jacket or the black jacket so that's out too. There's nothing left but the jeans! They look good though. Not worn/tacky or anything like that. I'll just chance it. Quoting:It is best not to stumble or seem clumsy if you can avoid it. I've prepared for that. I also got excepts from the local chamber of commerce (no financial results posted) and read up on the last two years worth of news (they are the first internet marketers to do business in China with a chineese search engine, before *any* americans). Quoting: In spite of this expect some curve balls to be thrown at you. It is likely they want to make you mildly uncomfortable to see your reaction. I can handle uncomfortable :-) I also made a bunch of code printouts from my own website's backend. It suddenly occurred tome that I don't have any PHP/MySQL website code publicly available in my subversion repository but only C, Python and Lua code. And they can only see the HTML of the sites I built. One funny detail I stumbled upon during my research: My personal site has 20 times the google hits of their main marketing website :-) I'm off to bed now. I'll check back here during breakfast! |
| jdixon Feb 05, 2007 1:37 PM EDT |
Well, be ready to explain that your suit is at the cleaners. :) They may not buy it, but it's worth the try. Seriously though, if you have time run by a clothing retailer and buy a pair of dress pants. Even something low end like Farah will go over better than the jeans, and you can get those at Walmart or your local equivalent. |
| swbrown Feb 05, 2007 10:13 PM EDT |
> I would never hire anybody that came to an interview in jeans. For a programming job? I don't own anything other than jeans. "suit and clean shaven" is going to leave you with the MCSEs and webmonkies. |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 05, 2007 10:18 PM EDT |
Considering that the clothing shops open at 9:30, that equivalents to Wallmart don't exist here and that I only have EUR 40,- left until the end of the month, I'll take my chance with the jeans. If they ask about it I'll explain it. |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 05, 2007 10:53 PM EDT |
I'm off. Wish me luck! |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 06, 2007 1:01 AM EDT |
Well, I'm back! All in all I think it went rather well. It's been a nice talk and the senior programmer and HR lead were both really nice people. The job description is slightly different from what they advertised on their website but it sounded really good to me. There was only one question I had trouble answering. At some point they asked me how I was and I responded like "enthousiast, hard-working, flexible, etcetera" and also that sometimes I was a bit stobborn, which is good at times and not so good at other times. They asked me for an example where it had turned out not so good and I couldn't give a decent example. I told them about one time when I disagreed with a certain project implementation. I got overruled but it turns out I was right in the end anyway. They didn't really seem to like that example. The rest went well. I got compliments for doing some research on the company beforehand and apparently I was the first programmer to bring printed code samples :-) Oh, and the jeans thing didn't matter at all (I think). No questions asked and from what I could eyeball from the rest of the employees, a full 2-piece suit + tie would have been overkill. It's a pretty informal place (a good thing). Thanks all and I'll keep you posted! |
| number6x Feb 06, 2007 6:13 AM EDT |
Good Luck. Even if you don't get the job the experience in interviewing will make you even better at it next time. P.S. I think a nice jacket, good pants (black dockers), a dress shirt and tie will do instead of a suit. |
| dcparris Feb 06, 2007 10:17 AM EDT |
When they asked for an example of something that went wrong, they were really looking for how you handle your own mistakes. We all make mistakes, and how we handle them is important. It's probably not a bad idea to go ahead and think of a better example for any future interviews. They may not say anything about your lack of a suit. If they hire you, then at least it wasn't a deal-killer. But people don't always ask about that - they might just keep moving to the next candidate. Don't let my comment about the suit ruin your day. I really hope you get the job! The printed code samples probably was a good idea, and may help to overcome any negatives. |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 06, 2007 12:42 PM EDT |
Quoting:When they asked for an example of something that went wrong, they were really looking for how you handle your own mistakes. If that's the case then they should have asked :-) I've made plenty of mistakes. But I know that my occasional stubbornness can be a problem so I've learned to keep my mouth shut and bite my tongue if I get nowhere, usually with the effect that later I can say "I told you so!". |
| theoldman59 Feb 07, 2007 7:55 AM EDT |
Glad your interview went well, but if another is needed, here's what I've don in the past. For clothing, call the secretary if possible and ask how most people dress. If it's blue jeans, Dockers and a regular shirt are a good choice. If it's suits, something with a tie might be required. I haven't seen an IT shop in suits for years though. Have a couple extra copies of your resume. Probably won't need them, but if it is a group interview, someone always forgets their copy. Be Prepared. Anticipate the questions. There are web sites with lists of questions interviewers like to use. The "When you made a mistake, how did you handle it?" is classic. Make it an advantage by not concentrating on the mistake, but how you made everything better. Be as calm as you can. Nervousness isn't lethal, but they may be looking at your ability to work with people in strange and different situations. Can you interact with the Finance folks and speak their language kind of thing. While not changing companies, I'm changing departments within IT. Interviewing is a skill we often neglect as we don't us it very often, but it is an important skill. Do some homework on the companies product line. Show some initiative on researching what the new employer actually does. IT is a support organization and a little knowledge about the rest of the company can go a long way. You should also be interviewing them. Have some questions ready about the company, products, where the department is headed, management styles, etc. Expected work schedule, on call schedule, etc. Good luck and hope you get / find the job of your dreams. I've had to do that a number of times, and you probably will as well. |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 14, 2007 8:37 AM EDT |
Hey guys, great news. I got called today for an appointment for a 3rd interview :-) That means I pretty much got the job and all that's left is negotiating terms (pay etcetera). Thanks for all the help! |
| tuxchick Feb 14, 2007 8:41 AM EDT |
Hah! I told you that having no visible boogers would pay off. Now do you believe me? Congratulations! |
| dcparris Feb 14, 2007 10:03 AM EDT |
Yee-hah! Woot! Woot! Cool deal! Congratulations! I'm glad it's working out. I hope you like it. |
| tuxtom Feb 14, 2007 5:15 PM EDT |
You should show up your first day in that freshly-cleaned blue suit! ;-) |
| steven7 Feb 05, 2009 12:32 AM EDT |
Hi,
This is Steven. You should also be interviewing them. Have some questions ready about the company, products, where the department is headed, management styles, etc. Expected work schedule, on call schedule, etc. ======================================== steven7 New Jobs |
| DiBosco Feb 05, 2009 11:46 AM EDT |
Congrats, Sander. Did you give up on your own company or are you doing both at once? On the subject of jeans versus suits, one thing you must take into account is that mainland Europe has a completely different attitude towards dress than the UK and US. I know from travelling around Europe with my job that the Germans for example (I work for a German company) are really relaxed about it all. I have even had Germans come over to the UK to see customers here and they wouldn't dream of wearing a suit. It's just a different culture, so I don't believe you can give a blanket recommendation to wear a suit to an interview. |
| azerthoth Feb 05, 2009 12:10 PM EDT |
Is there a mortician in the house? Steven7, why pull up a 2 year (to the day) old thread? |
| tuxchick Feb 05, 2009 12:19 PM EDT |
I love the smell of spam in the morning. |
| DiBosco Feb 05, 2009 12:43 PM EDT |
Oh dear, I didn't notice the date at all! |
| hkwint Feb 05, 2009 6:22 PM EDT |
Well, it was an interesting read nonetheless. Nowadays I assume Sander is the one assessing people for his new company. |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 05, 2009 7:19 PM EDT |
@hans: Not quite yet, but I don't plan to stay a lone developer for ever :-) |
| hkwint Feb 05, 2009 8:45 PM EDT |
Hmm, well, how about a lone wolve? |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 05, 2009 8:52 PM EDT |
@hans: Nope. That name was okay a few years ago, but it really does have marketing issues. Hence my thread a month and a half ago about naming suggestions for my company. Sadly I still haven't found a good name. |
| Scott_Ruecker Feb 05, 2009 9:20 PM EDT |
My advice is to let it come to you, great ideas come from unlikely places/people and situations. Getting drunk with some friends usually has its rewards in new and unusual words to choose from..;-) |
| azerthoth Feb 05, 2009 10:09 PM EDT |
Scott, you been reading Spider Robinson again? |
| Scott_Ruecker Feb 05, 2009 10:39 PM EDT |
Ah, but have you ever read any Paul De Filippo? |
| ColonelPanik Feb 06, 2009 12:23 AM EDT |
Scott, az, all LXers, Friends of LXers; April 10 ENMU, Portales, NM Williamson Lectureship Series. Featured speaker: Nalo Hopkinson Other notables: Connie Willis, Christopher Stasheff, Walter Jon Williams, Edward Bryant, Emily Mah, Melinda Snodgrass, Terry England, Ian Tregellis. Special guest appearance: Colonel Panik |
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