Linspire CEO Kevin Carmony Responds
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| Kevin_Carmony Feb 23, 2007 6:58 AM EDT |
Let me clear a few things up... 1. Eric Raymond doesn't "work" for Linspire. He is simply an un-paid volunteer member of the Freespire Leadership Board. (http://wiki.freespire.org/index.php/Freespire_Leadership_Boa...) Linspire has never paid Eric one dime. He got involved because he liked Freespire's work in solving some of the driver and multimedia problems for desktop Linux. 2. No one here at Linspire, myself included, had any idea Eric was going to do this. First we knew about it was when we read about it in the press. 3. If Eric was doing this on our account, he would have announced switching to Linspire or Freespire, not Ubuntu. 4. If Eric were in fact doing this for our benefit, the last thing in the world Linspire would have wanted him to do was him sending his email and upsetting the Fedora community. The Linux companies need to work more together, not less. Linspire has been trying to work MORE with Ubuntu, Fedora, openSUSE, and others, to solve the problems facing desktop Linux. Because I didn't know about this earlier, and haven't spoken with Eric since, I can't know his motives. However, I do know Eric fairly well, and he's not one to do much of anything "for someone else" or just for money. He's a pretty principled guy, from what my experience with him has been. I sincerely believe he just became unhappy with some things, hit is boiling point, and got so upset he made the switch and sent the email. If anyone reading this belongs to the Red Hat Fedora mailing list, I hope you'll forward my comments along to that group. I'll certainly will be sending them to the contacts I have at Red Hat, with whom Linspire has always had a very positive relationship with. Regardless of what Eric's motives were, I can assure you, they had nothing formally to do with Linspire. Thanks, Kevin Carmony CEO, Linspire |
| tuxchick Feb 23, 2007 7:28 AM EDT |
First Rob Enderle, and now ESR. Who next- Steve Ballmer? |
| DarrenR114 Feb 23, 2007 7:42 AM EDT |
Mr. Carmony, The problem is a matter of perception. As you noted, Eric Raymond is associated with Linspire. As you did not note, there is now a formal partnership between Canonical and Linspire. Therefore, it follows that Eric Raymond was critical (unduly so, in the opinion of many, including me) of a competitor of Linspire while endorsing a partner of Linspire, thereby using his position within the FOSS community to bolster his own self-interests. While there is really nothing illegal about the way he went about it, it certainly strains the cables of credibility. Conflict of interest isn't always about items of fact; it is quite often about simply the appearance of such, or the way it looks. I do hope that your post is not a drive-by, and that you'll check in to see feedback. |
| Scott_Ruecker Feb 23, 2007 8:18 AM EDT |
Mr. Carmony, I am glad that you chose to clarify Linspire's position in regards to Eric Raymond and his relationship with your company. In a situation such as this there can be many assumptions made that are inaccurate. For my part Eric only made himself look bad by his actions, not anyone else. But you can see that others may take his actions to be motivated by the existing relationship he has with Linspire, and your company's new collaboration with Canonical. Like you, I think he just got mad, blew his top and did something that he probably wishes he could undo. I have done the same, just not in print for all to see. It would have been prudent of him to express his feelings on the Fedora Developer Mailing list privately. He could have asked for and received help in fixing what was wrong and gotten advice on how to get his computer to do the things he wished it to do. |
| tuxchick Feb 23, 2007 8:39 AM EDT |
I doubt that anyone takes this as anything more than Yet Another Famous ESR Tantrum. |
| Bob_Robertson Feb 23, 2007 8:53 AM EDT |
Tantrum, indeed. And very unfortunately so. I've enjoyed ESR's work, and except for his unfortunate stance on the War Against The Rest Of The World, I tend to agree with his reasonings. Joining a board focused on resolving proprietary issues on F/OSS systems fits very consistently with his position on using those drivers to get market penetration. Just because I don't agree with appeasement doesn't mean I don't understand his reasons for doing so. That said, I hate whiners. |
| dcparris Feb 23, 2007 9:05 AM EDT |
Kevin, Thanks for taking the time to help clarify Linspires position. My article today points out the Fedora devs' responses, and that Eric might have taken a different approach - it's a lesson many people -especially those planning to leave one organization for another - need to learn. I hope, when you do communicate with Eric, that you'll suggest he remember his thinking cap. Like it or not, he is a public figure of sorts, and subject to scrutiny, fair or unfair. Thanks again, Don |
| bigg Feb 23, 2007 9:34 AM EDT |
Eric Raymond is definitely principled. He follows his principle of doing whatever it takes to get himself in the spotlight. (Recall his famous claim to be Microsoft's worst nightmare?) I feel sorry for the Linspire/Freespire community, because this will almost certainly not be his last outburst. And when there is any area of disagreement, he will be voicing his criticisms in news outlets, not in private emails. I believe everything in the Kevin Carmony post. I also agree with tuxchick that few people take this sort of thing seriously. |
| devnet Feb 23, 2007 10:27 AM EDT |
Kevin,Quoting:he's a pretty principled guy I think you might want to re-examine that one...he threw his FLOSS principle's right out the window not too long ago...and these principles he threw out are the reason he's leaving Fedora. It all boils down to him wanting Fedora to include non-free items into their distro. So he used this as an opportunity to cut Fedora down for what he saw as a shortcoming. The funny part is that it isn't a shortcoming. If he were a principles first type of guy, he'd admire Fedora for them taking a stand but part ways just the same and we'd have a different letter...one that might state, "Well Fedora, thanks for the memories, but since I've changed I cannot follow your path anymore. Please don't take this as criticism but I need to have things 'just work' proprietary or not" and he would have done this without submitting it to all the Linux news agencies. By taking the action he did, he made himself look bad, less credible, and he drew conclusion directly with Ubuntu and indirectly with Linspire. It doesn't matter that you don't pay him or not...he's affiliated directly/indirectly and this means that whatever he says, does, or chooses to do will reflect...for good or bad...on what he's involved with or what he's speaking about. I respect greatly that you clarified your position...but doing so here in this forum will hit about 30% of the audience ESR hit with his public letter. My personal principles wouldn't let me stand for that. But hey, that's just me. Once again, thanks for your clarification. |
| Scott_Ruecker Feb 23, 2007 10:41 AM EDT |
Quoting:I respect greatly that you clarified your position...but doing so here in this forum will hit about 30% of the audience ESR hit with his public letter. I take slight umbrage to that statement, I think that by posting here at LXer he has made sure that the people who have more than a passing interest in Open Source will read his explanation. Agree or not agree with him, we will at least take him seriously. Scott |
| bigg Feb 23, 2007 10:49 AM EDT |
Scott: I agree with your point (but I'm surprised he would view these forums as sufficiently influential to post here). It would be better if this were an LXer feature, though, rather than a post. |
| dcparris Feb 23, 2007 11:16 AM EDT |
I'll act on this by tomorrow, if not this evening. That said, I think it speaks volumes for LXer's standing - we've surpassed some other popular websites (our Google page rank is higher than NewsForge, iirc) in terms of readership and other stats. ;-) |
| CMatters Feb 23, 2007 11:27 AM EDT |
LXer is my home page!!! Since I don't drink coffee, LXer is how I start my mornings. |
| jimf Feb 23, 2007 11:33 AM EDT |
> it speaks volumes for LXer's standing Absolutely. In addition to the news coverage being top notch, the quality of member comments and discussion is generally very high. Some very serious discussion and analysis unlike anything on the other sites. I know that's atracting a lot of attention. |
| sxf Feb 23, 2007 1:22 PM EDT |
Mr. Carmony Thanks for taking the time to post this clarification. I like your willingness to communicate directly with Linux users (not only Linspire's ones). Again, thanks. |
| Libervis Feb 23, 2007 1:36 PM EDT |
@dcparris: LXer has a PR8 (of 10) and Newsforge had PR9 so it's not quite there yet, but PR8 is incredibly hard to achieve so that's quite good for a site that is so much younger than newsforge. And of course, it's my first choice for GNU/Linux and Free Software related news. As for what Carmony said, he's probably right. But as others already pointed out, as a public figure (at least something he desperately wants to remain) he has a bit of responsibility for what he says and he should have expected that people will make a link between his involvement with Linspire and his switch to Ubuntu. But what he's doing really fits the bigger picture that he, along with Rob Landley, portrayed in that sensationally titled "World Domination 201" paper. All of what he's doing recently is part of that plan. And I've just submit an article that has something to say on that too. ;) Cheers |
| devnet Feb 23, 2007 1:40 PM EDT |
Scott, I didn't mean that Lxer has low influence...just that the Lxer forums aren't the place I'd expect something like this to get great exposure. Especially considering most people have RSS feeds of the headlines and not of the forums. Lxer is my #1 place for Linux news and chat. It has been since it first started. It will continue to be so as well. I meant no disrespect whatsoever. |
| dcparris Feb 23, 2007 1:43 PM EDT |
We were at #8 - not sure why we've slipped. :-( |
| Libervis Feb 23, 2007 1:53 PM EDT |
Number 8? Well, look at this: [url=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=linux news&btnG=Google Search]http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=linux news&btnG=Google ...[/url] :) I guess it depends on the keyword. As for ranks, they don't change so often. If you're PR8 you wont be slipping down to PR7 anytime soon, but chances are you'll rise to PR9, though much of it probably depends on google's latest algorithms as well I suppose. |
| Scott_Ruecker Feb 23, 2007 3:20 PM EDT |
Devnet: I knew you meant no harm, but I think LXer is the place to post such a response. Like Don, I think it says a lot about what people involved in Open Source think of LXer. Just imagine if he had posted his comment to Slashdot? There would be no 'discussion' let alone an intelligent one. |
| dcparris Feb 23, 2007 3:56 PM EDT |
Perhaps I was thinking of Linux Today that we had surpassed. This site has us still at #8: http://www.prchecker.info/check_page_rank.php Scott, I think devnet was focused on Carmony's post in the forums, as opposed to the front page. Even so, Carmony's post shows up constantly in the active thread box, ensuring that anyone paying attention to the site will see it. However, those relying on RSS feeds won't see his comment without visiting the site. I'll post a short write-up in the morning to make sure Carmony's point reaches a wider audience. It's in Edit now. ;-) |
| swbrown Feb 23, 2007 5:09 PM EDT |
I think pretty much everyone already attributed this to ESR and not Linspire / Canonical. |
| dcparris Feb 23, 2007 5:52 PM EDT |
There was just some reaction to the effect that his switch to Ubuntu came about because of his affiliation with Linspire. Linspire just wants to make sure it's clear there's no formal connection. :-) Per Carmony above, it's not the kind of PR he's looking for. |
| jdixon Feb 23, 2007 5:58 PM EDT |
> Per Carmony above, it's not the kind of PR he's looking for. Unfortunately, with Eric, it's the kind of PR he's likely to get. :( |
| dcparris Feb 23, 2007 6:31 PM EDT |
Well, he found that out, didn't he? |
| Kevin_Carmony Feb 24, 2007 8:03 AM EDT |
Yes, I can certainly see HOW things could have been construed this way, I just wanted to clear things up. I posted here and on some other threads that had brought up this misunderstanding. Most importantly, I emailed my response to my contacts at Red Hat. I also asked others to send around my comment to the mailing list. I'd like to add that Linspire has a great relationship with Red Hat and Fedora. We HAVE been working with them on bringing our CNR technology to Fedora users (via an optional plugin). Red Hat and Fedora has been nothing but very good to work with us. The main reason you saw the Ubuntu deal before Fedora is simply supporting an RPM-based distribution, such as Fedora and openSUSE, will take us just a bit longer than the Debian-based Ubuntu, because historically CNR has been Debian centric with Linspire and Freespire. Thanks, Kevin Carmony CEO, Linspire |
| schestowitz Feb 28, 2007 5:32 PM EDT |
Bottom line: yesterday it turned out that even the founder of Debian uses Ubuntu Linux. And he didn't make noise about it. ESR needs to learn how to behave like a gentleman. |
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