You don't represent me
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| stephanfeb Apr 16, 2007 6:41 PM EDT |
I am an avid Linux user, and while my contributions have been small, few and far between, I will have no part in your name-and-shame campaign. Regards Stephan |
| jdixon Apr 16, 2007 6:51 PM EDT |
Stephan: > You don't represent me He didn't say he did: "It was decided by a few that I can say with assurance that this letter represents millions of Linux Users." I don't see your name there, do you? |
| stephanfeb Apr 16, 2007 9:19 PM EDT |
jdixon: You're being ridiculous. Nowhere did I see a statement that read " We represent millions of Linux users, except Stephan, who represents himself". I hate when people stand up and claim to make representations on my behalf, especially for something as inane as splashing Linux on a car that goes fast then turns left. |
| tracyanne Apr 16, 2007 10:53 PM EDT |
Quoting:I hate when people stand up and claim to make representations on my behalf, especially for something as inane as splashing Linux on a car that goes fast then turns left. Please feel free to be unrepresented. |
| vainrveenr Apr 17, 2007 2:12 AM EDT |
After reading this excerpt here below, unrepresent me and several others as well:
Quoting:Since we are such a diverse and spread-out community, we at Lobby4Linux.com have researched how we can help get the word out about projects such as this. Blog of helios, having a modest readership will begin immediately to carry the banner of any worthy FOSS/Linux project. In fact, we began it upon this publication. We won't go looking for them, but should we find them, we will be happy to place a banner for that project at the top of the blog for that week....much like the ad frame on the back of a taxi cab. As well, if you would like your FOSS/Linux project or publication featured at the top of the helios blog, email us at lobby4linux@gmail.com with your banner and we will get in rotation for you. This is first come, first served so get your banner to us as soon as you can..Couple of those I just spoke with, briefly expressed in somewhat less gentle terms that the above shows much arrogance on the part of a blog-writer who is *urgently* attempting to pull in increased web traffic to his/her Linux "Advocacy" blog. Arguably well-spun as a challenge statement though. |
| jimf Apr 17, 2007 2:52 AM EDT |
> shows much arrogance Or just the cohenes to do what others can't or won't. In any case, I fail to see how this prohibits anyone from opting out. |
| helios Apr 17, 2007 2:53 AM EDT |
I hate when people stand up and claim to make representations on my behalf, especially for something as inane as splashing Linux on a car that goes fast then turns left. Look Steve. It's fine that you are not supportive of this effort, that's your right and I have made decent efforts to verbalize that many more are not. Listen. There are two things I am willing to do for you. If you give me specific information about you and a non-spam trap email address, I will write a blog that names you and anyone else as "community members" who are either against this effort or are beginning a movement to work against this effort. And yes Steve, I read other forums and posts...it's kinda my job, it's part of what I do. Why anyone would expend the energy to create a website against Tux500 is beyond me. I am a Linux Advocate and I have placed, even above my own family, health and welfare, the proliferation of this community and the system it represents. I do so because I believe the published and active goals by Microsoft to destroy this community are not only real, they are a threat to generations to come. I have been accused of being an "alarmist". That's fine...some people have never seen a rattlesnake and they have no idea they are about to be "negatively impacted" by said creature. It is an uncaring and loathsome person indeed who would allow anyone to be bitten without issuing some kind of warning. If that is being an alarmist, then I wear the badge proudly and will even brag to others who pinned it upon me. Linux will proliferate, and while I still have any cell regeneration left in my lungs I will see to it that it does, with every measure of ability I have. I believe you have established your opposition to this project. Let me make a suggestion. Put the energy you are expending against this effort into one that grows Linux. Not one that attempts to stifle it. If you do not believe that you have a responsibility to this community to do so, I have another option for you. I have been given, by Microsoft, a licensed copy of Windows Vista. I was going to auction it off in order to raise money for Komputers4Kids, but I am more than willing to give it to you in a gesture of good will. h |
| dinotrac Apr 17, 2007 3:38 AM EDT |
Hey Helios - Worry not, old man. Don't let poopheads and sour old church ladies get you down. These are the folks who say "So and so isn't my President, Congressman, etc.", forgetting that representative organizations do not require unanimity. Besides, from focus groups to man-on-the-street interviews, there are many forms of representation. So please, don't represent stephenFeb. Who'd want to? And vainrveenr? Obviously can't even think for himself. You go. |
| helios Apr 17, 2007 4:58 AM EDT |
Dino, You are a pearl beyond measurable value. Thank you. h |
| jdixon Apr 17, 2007 5:00 AM EDT |
> Nowhere did I see a statement that read " We represent millions of Linux users, except Stephan, who represents himself". What part of millions don't you understand? Millions, as in at least 2. Linux Counter estimates that there are close to 30 million Linux users, and it's considered conservative by many. Don't you think it likely that at least 7% of those users would support the Tux500 project? Helios made no claim to represent any specific Linux user. It's bad enough when people have to go out of their way to tear down what someone else is building. It's even worse when they can't understand simple English. |
| jdixon Apr 17, 2007 5:03 AM EDT |
> the above shows much arrogance on the part of a blog-writer who is *urgently* attempting to pull in increased web traffic to his/her Linux "Advocacy" blog. As opposed to the arrogance of someone who judges another person based on a complete misunderstanding of a single post, rather than checking out their long and readily documented history of Linux support? OK, if you say so. |
| dcparris Apr 17, 2007 6:09 AM EDT |
Stephanfeb & vainrveenr: I've known helios for some time. This is a guy who puts more than just his money where his Linux advocacy is. He has, in fact, risked his health in an effort to promote Linux. I'll vouch for that - I previously wrote an article about it. Perhaps you're not one of the ones he represents, but it should be pretty obvious to the typical reader that "millions of Linux users" does not specifically include you. It's fine that you stated you are not among the represented, but don't try to make it out as though he's being presumptious. Have you given thought to the fact that Helios is expressing the 'humble abode' that his website currently is? If he claimed to have millions of readers, you would blast him for lying. I think his intent was to say something along the lines of, "our site is not the most widely-read, but we will be happy to put project logos on our pages". In other words, there might be better places to "advertise" your project, but they'll be more than happy to do so. Why does there always have to be some ulterior motive? And why would you suspect an ulterior motive behind a guy with an proven track record? Ken Starks has: taught a Linux Lab in Texas for some time - and converted students and grandmothers alike to Linux driven from Texas to Washington, D.C. to lobby for Linux migrated a business to Linux and recently, launched a campaign to raise funds to sponsor a race car Stephanfeb hasn't even explained "why" he's not among the represented - he has only accused helios of being rather presumptuous. I am truly amazed at you guys. Why are you so willing to believe the worst when he has shown proof positive that he has our community's best interests at heart? Why? Would you act the same way if Doc Searles were behind this? I doubt it. Doc is probably a much better spokesperson than Ken, but at least Ken tries. Perhaps the fairest criticism I have seen of Ken is that he is "alarmist". Indeed, Ken writes with a swagger that likely out-swaggers many Texans. I think it's probably a fair criticism. Ken might be able to change his tone somewhat when he writes. Still, he's doing a lot more than most are willing to even try to do. As long as I've been around the community, I still can't believe people are so quick to believe the worst in others. I admit it's a bit disheartening. |
| Bob_Robertson Apr 17, 2007 6:28 AM EDT |
" forgetting that representative organizations do not require unanimity." It's not the lack of unanimity that bothers me. It is the lack of even a large majority support, yet they get to make decisions that are imposed upon me. Luckily, Linux and F/OSS is a completely voluntary system. Anything I don't like, I just don't use. Here's a cute take on the idea of how a "representative" system could work: http://www.bigheadpress.com/tpbtgn?page=136 |
| dinotrac Apr 17, 2007 6:42 AM EDT |
>Here's a cute take on the idea of how a "representative" system could work Somebody is just plain wicked. |
| jimf Apr 17, 2007 7:15 AM EDT |
> I still can't believe people are so quick to believe the worst in others. I admit it's a bit disheartening. The MS and other Corporate interests have trained us to be suspicious, in fact, downright hostile to any purposed venture. Their track record makes paranoia a sane and logical assumption. Lately I see more and more of it creeping into the Linux community. I believe we all have to step back and think hard about whether or not we need or want to import that attitude into Linux. While we don't want to play the fool, when the source is reputable and the intent seems reasonable within the Linux community, we should be giving it some slack. |
| flufferbeer Apr 17, 2007 7:46 AM EDT |
As someone who is more disinterested, it looks from the above posts including and following Apr 17, 2007 10:09 AM that the "name-and-shame campaign" is verifiably occurring on this very same LXer thread. It would seem that the instigators causing the "name-and-shame" responses struck a nerve from the fact that the instigators were so easily able to elicit the pair of intense responses they did from the actual author of the blog in question. 2c only ;-) |
| NoDough Apr 17, 2007 8:20 AM EDT |
>"...blog-writer who is *urgently* attempting to pull in increased web traffic to his/her Linux "Advocacy" blog."< What's THIS! A BLOG-WRITER attempting to pull in INCREASED WEB TRAFFIC!! CALL THE POLICE!! ;) |
| flufferbeer Apr 17, 2007 8:35 AM EDT |
Really now (eye are rolling) .... call the Internet or thought police on the actual [nameless] author of the blog in question (LOL) BTW, what are "the cohenes", as in the above "Or just the cohenes to do what others can't or won't." Can one assume that this means something like "the guts to actively stand up for something"? Obviously this cannot refer to BitTorrent's Bram Cohen or the OSDL's ex-CEO Stuart Cohen, as these two renown gentlemen certainly had the guts to actively stand up for something. |
| NoDough Apr 17, 2007 8:42 AM EDT |
>"BTW, what are "the cohenes", as in the above..."< I think "cohones" was intended. http://encyclopedia.tfd.com/Cahones |
| tuxchick Apr 17, 2007 9:45 AM EDT |
This thread gets my vote for most bizarre LXer thread ever. This has to be tongue-in-cheek: "Nowhere did I see a statement that read " We represent millions of Linux users, except Stephan, who represents himself"." Because if it's serious, it's not worth dignifying with a response. Like, get real- you can't have a reasonable discussion with a person who really believes that. And it's straight downhill from there. It might help to keep in mind that the whiners and naysayers aren't doing anything else- they have nothing but time to pee on other people's parades. Go forth and do, and leave the whiners grumbling in their dank basements, gnawing at their moldy crusts. |
| flufferbeer Apr 17, 2007 10:12 AM EDT |
Thanks for the equally visceral definition of cohones to its guessed-at contextual meaning above :-) As a related aside, another [nameless] contributor just recently today contributed an insightful LXer response that starts here "The problem is, Linux users like to focus on disagreements instead of similarities. Distro-flamewars are almost the best example. Microsoft would laugh their @$$ of when reading this forum, since it are the Linux users doing their work at this moment; trying to 'divide the Linux community'. Uniting Linux users is Microsoft's worst nightmare, and they are really, really glad with people like ESR and RMS, since they are good at focusing at differences of view...." THIS Linux desktop distro, THAT Linux desktop distro; THIS Linux advocate "at least going forth and doing", THAT Linux advocate "at least going forth and doing". The list of whiners, naysayers, and flamewarriors does seem to go on and on................ |
| devnet Apr 17, 2007 10:38 AM EDT |
TC don't forget the gnashing of many teeth (preferably their own) :) For those naysayers, You do realize that this is helios right? http://lxer.com/team.php Scroll down to the bottom of that page...there you go, that's helios aka Ken Starks a contributing editor here. Just thought I'd point out who you're bashing and who's credibility you're calling into question. I've seen more filth and libelous statements spew forth since Ken started his project than anytime I've ever been involved with Open Source and Linux. it's really disheartening to see. |
| Abe Apr 17, 2007 10:59 AM EDT |
Quoting:I've seen more filth and libelous statements spew forth... I have sent Helios private e-mail asking him to ignore all that and not to waste his time and energy on responding. But he is what he is, decent, honorable, dedicated, committed and sincere in his effort and doesn't want to leave a cloud on what he is set out to accomplish. If some people still don't see that in him yet, there is no sense of trying any harder. |
| dinotrac Apr 17, 2007 12:13 PM EDT |
>But he is what he is, decent, honorable, dedicated, committed and sincere in his effort And shame on him for that! It seems clear that many an addled mind and empty soul despises people with the guts to actually go out and DO SOMETHING that might make the world a better place. Who knows? Somebody might expect THEM to get useful... |
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