Gotta love Michael's testing...
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| JaseP Aug 17, 2010 10:26 AM EDT |
You really gotta love Michael's testing... It really shows that on a purely technical level there is very little that prevents Linux from being a true gaming platform, other than developer attention and hardware support. Granted, those are big things, but if someone wanted to highlight Linux's ability to "Game" they could do so easily... I know this is a little off topic, but Michael Larabel's testing benchmarks beg a very important point,... I am really surprised that with some of these newer games, that they don't boot into their own distribution and turn the PC into a kind of Linux gaming/entertainment console... Or that someone hasn't had more success in creating a Linux gaming console (I know there was at least one attempt)... Most games require a CD or DVD to be in the drive to run, anyway,... plus a CD-Key... I think the big console making houses have really missed out... A Tivo-like system can be put in place to provide game developers with their IP security blanket, and to ensure a consistent standardized development environment. A locked Root account can prevent unauthorized changes to the system software. Commercial games could be run with an additional, lesser administrative account and some form of difficult to crack encryption. Also, a freely mod-able user space account (or accounts, plural) can be set up for those who like to tinker or develop apps or their own entertainment software... Plus, all the system software can be open-sourced, just not changed on the system... Plus, the developer of the system can open licensing negotiations to white box manufacturers who want to make a unit with other bells and whistles (faster processors, more RAM, bigger HD, smaller footprint, funky case designs, different wireless controllers, portable unit, etc.). All they would have to do would be to ensure that the manufacturers stick within certain hardware guidelines that maintain a consistent environment for the developers. For a console maker, the hardware is often the loss-leader in consoles. The money is in game licensing. Having someone build a niche market in licensing white box versions of your console could relieve you of the burden of manufacturing hardware, and leave you to pure licensing contract negotiations and system software development. Plus, game developers would also have little excuse not to release a regular Linux PC version (at a negotiated premium on top of the console version, in order to maintain their licensing credentials), and/or even a Live-CD distro version, since the only thing different would be to change the "copy-protection" crap (regular Linux users could install any other extra library "bits" that the games might require for standardization). I know a lot of Open-Source-Only zealots would balk at the idea of a locked game/entertainment console based on Linux. But hey, if it encourages open source develpment in an environment that game developers could like, is clear from its licensing terms what the thing is and is not, and encourages Linux ports,... why not??? After all, once it was clear that Tivo worked,... it opened the floodgate to things like MythTV, LinuxMCE, etc. Now there are more choices in terms of Linux based DVRs and home entertainment/control systems. |
| gus3 Aug 17, 2010 12:24 PM EDT |
Self-hosting game DVD's doesn't make sense for publishers. Whatever space the OS takes, is that much less space for game files. That's true even for dedicated game systems like Wii and Xbox. |
| TxtEdMacs Aug 17, 2010 12:58 PM EDT |
JaseP, [serious] Interesting thoughts. [/serious] |
| JaseP Aug 17, 2010 1:47 PM EDT |
@ Gus3,... You can have multiple DVDs and install files content on a persons HD to make up for that... Plus compare the situation from years back when things were distributed on floppies,... Blue-ray drives and other advancements will make disk space arguments pretty much moot,... and then there's always cramfs,... @ TxtEdMacs,... I can't tell if you are sincere or sarcastic,... But despite my long rambling post,... my point is that Open Source and entertainment production are not necessarily enemies,... Consumers want open, content producers want controls, & there's a happy middle ground that is un-tapped. From Michael Larabel's data, there is no technological OS reason for an impediment. |
| gus3 Aug 17, 2010 3:05 PM EDT |
Quoting:You can have multiple DVDsWhich drives up manufacturing costs Quoting:and install files content on a persons HD to make up for thatAnd then you end up back in DLL Hell, the last place you want to be in an embedded system. Besides, leaving file management to the console OS affords the opportunity to protect one game's files from a competitor's malware. |
| Scott_Ruecker Aug 17, 2010 3:09 PM EDT |
JaseP; I am being serious and you make some interesting points. ;-) If it has been done in other segments of the market why not gaming..hmm. Interesting.. |
| Sander_Marechal Aug 17, 2010 6:55 PM EDT |
Quoting:If it has been done in other segments of the market why not gaming..hmm. I still say that someone should take Linux to the "adult entertainment" market. It will be huge. I could maybe do it myself, but I'm not sure I want to sign my name under something that deals with pornography. |
| jdixon Aug 17, 2010 8:24 PM EDT |
> ...but I'm not sure I want to sign my name under something that deals with pornography. Isn't that what pseudonyms were made for? :) |
| gus3 Aug 17, 2010 8:53 PM EDT |
Or a legal trust. |
| TxtEdMacs Aug 17, 2010 9:43 PM EDT |
JaseP, [serious] Sorry about the ambiguity you read into my words. Perhaps I should have been more verbose, but I meant it literally. While I am not certain what you propose would work as you project, it might. Just had not seen the same connections you assert might be present. Thus, interesting thoughts. Other hints are my "serious" tags. Nonetheless, I have been known to bury a snark or two, however, not without explicit warning those might be present. [/serious] Note too there was no YBT byline. |
| gus3 Aug 17, 2010 10:51 PM EDT |
And just to clarify for my part, I'm not saying it's impossible, or even inadvisable. I've even toyed with the idea myself. But hard experience tells me that geeks, and their great ideas, hit a non-geek brick wall 98% of the time, so it helps to take the non-geeks into account ASAP. |
| Sander_Marechal Aug 18, 2010 2:27 AM EDT |
@jdixon & gus: That doesn't work. My real name is pretty well known on the internet. I'm pretty sure that any pseudonym or other front could quickly be tied to me. Besides, FOSS is based on trust. Such a project would be much better off when someone real takes responsibility. I know of only one person who has built a solid reputation and has managed to stay anonymous, and that's Groklaw's PJ. |
| saint_abroad Aug 18, 2010 10:46 AM EDT |
"I am really surprised that with some of these newer games, that they don't boot into their own distribution and turn the PC into a kind of Linux gaming/entertainment console"
JaseP It's all about support: if you provide the OS then it's your burden; otherwise, it's somebody else's problem. |
| phsolide Aug 18, 2010 10:53 AM EDT |
Ages ago, Circa 1985, a Color Computer III game came on floppies that featured the "OS-9" operating system. You could buy OS-9 level 1 from Radio Shack, or you could buy the game, and with a little work, get a usable copy of OS-9 level 2. OS-9 managed to do multi-tasking on a 1 KHz 8/16-bit 6809 CPU in 258 Kb of memory. The game in question (can't remember the name) used the multi-tasking to great advantage. |
| jdixon Aug 18, 2010 11:02 AM EDT |
> The game in question (can't remember the name) used the multi-tasking to great advantage. Rogue? Several games they shipped used OS-9, but that was the big one. |
| Sander_Marechal Aug 18, 2010 2:13 PM EDT |
Quoting:It's all about support: if you provide the OS then it's your burden; otherwise, it's somebody else's problem. True, but on the flipside, you don't have to deal with umpteen broken versions of someone else's OS. |
| tracyanne Aug 18, 2010 5:16 PM EDT |
Quoting:you don't have to deal with umpteen broken versions of someone else's OS. and in practice they don't. It's still an SEP. |
| Sander_Marechal Aug 18, 2010 5:44 PM EDT |
SEP? |
| tracyanne Aug 18, 2010 6:12 PM EDT |
Someone Else's Problem, and therefore invisible, from Hitch hikers Guide |
| Sander_Marechal Aug 18, 2010 7:07 PM EDT |
Ah, well, in that case I disagree. It can be pretty troublesome to write high performance game code and have it work reliably on all the permutations of WinXP/Vista/7, graphics driver versions, etcetera, etcetera. Not to mention making it truly cross-plaform by also doing an OSX and Linux version. Perhaps the development time spent on making it run on all those OS versions and configurations is bigger than the development time required to maintain their bootable OS LiveCD environment that's just dedicated to their game. |
| tracyanne Aug 18, 2010 8:06 PM EDT |
Quoting:Perhaps the development time spent on making it run on all those OS versions and configurations is bigger than the development time required to maintain their bootable OS LiveCD environment that's just dedicated to their game. I agree being able to develop against a single OS would be the way to go, which is why the Console builders love their consoles. Developing the games against a single OS that either boots from cold or into a virtual environment would be a nice (the engineering meaning) solution, I can't see it happening anytime soon if at all. In many ways, due to the skill sets at most of the game compnies, I'd guess it's easier to write for a generic Win32 API and tweak it for the versions supported XP Vista Win7 (currently). |
| hkwint Aug 18, 2010 8:13 PM EDT |
I've been following the embedded-ARM market for some short amount of time (only a year maybe?), and interesting things are happening. There's this PowerVR SGX 543 multiple-core GPU design, which wil be fitted together with two CPU's, a Digital Signal Processing core (photo processing) and hardware multimedia de/encoders all one one little slice of sillicon. In fact, that little slice (System on Chip) is smaller than most desktop-x86-CPU's of two years ago. Nothing interesting, one might say, SoC's have existed for years. Except, the design mentioned in its 8-core implementation is able to draw the same amount of triangles per second as an XBox 360 does. That implementation is rumoured to end up in the new PSP, meaning the new portable PlayStation will have better graphical capabilities than the 2006 PS3. Given the mini-HDMI output of most newer smartphones, I think theoretically a 2011 smartphone will have the technical capabilities to make the 2006-gaming platforms superfluous. One could even envision the smartphone itself being used as a controller with programmable interface (touchscreen, "Art Lebedev style"), and the video being sent to some large screen. Though currently something like that would be 'wired only'. The thing which keeps that scenario from happening, currently, is probably momentum, the media distribution model which may still be lacking (though App Markets can solve this), investors which are on their guard and vested interest companies who missed the portable-boat (like MS) trying to counter these innovations / investments. 2018 maybe? |
| Sander_Marechal Aug 19, 2010 3:46 AM EDT |
An interesting development Hans, but not one that will make PC or console gaming obsolete. By the time that smartphones are able to do that there will have been three or more new generations of consoles. With any luck, by that time we'll have real-time ray-tracing. Many gamers are looking for the bleeding edge. What's considered high-end today (XB360) will look donwright obsolete two generations from now. |
| hkwint Aug 19, 2010 9:10 AM EDT |
Quoting:By the time that smartphones are able to do that there will have been three or more new generations of consoles. The cycle has slowed down, it seems: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2010/feb/26/g... There's no PS4 or XBox 720 announced. Focus currently is on the controllers - new ways of interacting with the platform, not on better hardware for the platform. Nintendo have showed with the Wii it's not all about the bleeding edge, while Microsoft and Sony are struggling to make a buck from their current platforms. The mobile gaming platforms are developing at a faster pace: The Nintendo 3DS will bring technology (autostereoscopy) that hasn't been on the larger consoles first. And guess what - it's rumoured to use the same PowerVR technology as mentioned above! |
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