What's up with Lynch
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| brideoflinux Jan 25, 2016 2:00 PM EDT |
This weekend Jim Lynch was on a tirade on how The Linux Foundation has saved Linux by taking action to keep Karen Sandler, who he calls a "social justice warrior," off the board, going on a rant about SJWs being poison to any project. Today he's upset because Facebook is adopting a policy against racist posts in Europe. Jeez. I used to like reading this guy, but not anymore. It appears as if he's lost his gig with ITWorld, as all of his recent, more inflammatory posts have been on his own blog. |
| jdixon Jan 25, 2016 2:24 PM EDT |
> Today he's upset because Facebook is adopting a policy against racist posts in Europe. When "racism" is defined as merely opposing unlimited immigration or truthfully reporting on the actions of recent immigrants, both of which seem to be the case, then there just might be a problem. He actually sums up the problem quite well in a single paragraph of his article: "Let me translate what the words “racist” and “xenophobic” mean in this context: any posts that disagree with the German government’s decision to allow its country to be invaded by young Muslim men from the Middle East. If you oppose that decision and you’re in Europe, be ready to have your Facebook posts removed at any time." Now, you may think he's exaggerating or merely being polemic. Of course, lots of people feel that way about RMS too. |
| tbuitenh Jan 25, 2016 2:38 PM EDT |
People who call others SJWs without their tongues in their cheeks are always exaggerating and paranoid. No exceptions. That said, a broken clock is right twice a day - facebook is bad for you, but facebook attempting to obey they law of a country in which it operates is not evidence of that. |
| gus3 Jan 25, 2016 2:48 PM EDT |
In the speech she gave on evaluating the wireless security in her pacemaker, she let some of that(censored) peek through. After that, I cared less and less what she said. |
| jdixon Jan 25, 2016 2:55 PM EDT |
> People who call others SJWs without their tongues in their cheeks are always exaggerating and paranoid. You're not paranoid if they actually are out to get you. Try telling that to the owners of Memories Pizza, Masterpiece Cakeshop, Elane Photography. or the SF authors published by Castalia House. |
| tbuitenh Jan 25, 2016 3:12 PM EDT |
For those who are too lazy to use a search engine: the first three are drama about companies refusing service to same sex couples. The other thing appears to be that drama that happened around the Hugo Awards. Whether anyone is actually out to get someone is left as an exercise to the reader. |
| jdixon Jan 25, 2016 3:19 PM EDT |
> Whether anyone is actually out to get someone is left as an exercise to the reader. As always. I could post stories for days if I wanted. Say: http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/01/21/sjws-politically-in... But no, no one is out to get anyone, are they? |
| tbuitenh Jan 25, 2016 3:31 PM EDT |
The opinion piece you linked to is written by someone who uses the word SJW... Like I said before, those are always exaggerating and paranoid. No exceptions. :) |
| jimlynch Jan 25, 2016 3:35 PM EDT |
Hi Christine (brideoflinux), Sorry you didn't like the posts on my blog. All I can about that is that you might want to skip reading them in the future. Not everything that I write is everybody's cup of tea and you will find everything from technology stuff to zombies (see the recent post about Z Nation...great show!) on my personal blog. Some folks enjoy reading those posts, while others don't. Don't feel bad if you prefer to skip my blog altogether, I won't take offense if you do. ;) Regarding the post about Facebook, it's important to note that Facebook's policy seems squarely aimed at anybody who disagrees with Angela Merkel's policy about flooding Germany with young Muslim men from the Middle East despite the sexual assaults, rapes and other violence being directed against German women by them. I can't imagine any sane person would consider people expressing opposition to any of that and wanting Germany to close its borders to more young Muslim men as being "racist" or "xenophobic." Sometimes the safety of the citizens of a country (particularly women) warrants immediate action, and I think that this is one of those cases. And Facebook is not doing the German people any favor by censoring opposition to Merkel's policy. They are, as usual, putting their profits ahead of any concern about the welfare of their users (in this case German citizens). So I called them out on it in my post, and I make no bones about my dislike of that company. As I stated in my post, the best thing people can do is delete their Facebook accounts altogether (between the censorship, privacy violations, manipulation, etc. it's an awful service). Anyway, thanks for the feedback. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree. :) |
| jdixon Jan 25, 2016 3:40 PM EDT |
> Like I said before, those are always exaggerating and paranoid. No exceptions. Of course, you used the term SJW in two of your three posts. So I guess folks are free to completely discount them on that basis. Don't you love the way that works. Oh, in case people don't know, the term was originally created by those people to describe themselves, not by their opposition. So I guess we can ignore everything they say too. |
| tbuitenh Jan 25, 2016 3:56 PM EDT |
@jdixon Oh, people are free to discount my posts on the basis that they are written *by* a SJW, although I’m not sure I deserve the title "warrior", being a pacifist. But hey, I’m a woman who does something with computers, so of course I’m a SJW. Just like I was a feminazi a few years ago. I wouldn’t ever seriously call myself those things, but of course all label assignments by men override any opinion I might have. Please learn to read more carefully, I was more brief in the reiteration but the original statement was about people who call others SJWs, not about anyone who uses the term for any other reason. I don’t know if SJW started as a self description. I suppose it’s possible, but considering the source of that information I think I’ll do some research of my own if I really care to know. |
| jdixon Jan 25, 2016 5:48 PM EDT |
> Oh, people are free to discount my posts on the basis that they are written *by* a SJW Unlike you, I don't suggest people discount posts on the basis of who wrote them or simply on the basis of what terms they use. I merely pointed out the results if they do. > ...but considering the source of that information I think I’ll do some research of my own if I really care to know. Always a good idea, but the information is readily available, if somewhat debated. |
| dotmatrix Jan 25, 2016 6:05 PM EDT |
I'm with Camille Paglia on many of these types of issues: http://time.com/3444749/camille-paglia-the-modern-campus-cannot-comprehend-evil/ Again, though... isn't this thread about politics... I don't mind in the slightest, but there are - apparently - some posters who do mind. Also, just as apparently, there seem to be unrequited and disquieting issues that persons of various kinds need to understand -- or agree to disagree if possible. However, I vote that we boot the politics to other forums, because arguments like this can never be won over through arguments like this... and all get back to coding copiously documented FOSS for consumption by the community -- whomever they may be. And - Yeah, I know I started a prior political thread -- And I apologize for my prior transgressions. |
| brideoflinux Jan 25, 2016 7:22 PM EDT |
"arguments like this can never be won over through arguments like this" That's true. But I do get tired of seeing people who take a stance on social issues automatically branded and labeled as "poison." Since the '60s I've seen many people who used social justice issues as an excuse to be tyrants, but they're the exception rather than the rule and are are mainly notable because they make a lot of noise. |
| jdixon Jan 25, 2016 7:30 PM EDT |
> And - Yeah, I know I started a prior political thread - No, you didn't. You linked to a perfectly appropriate article on open source espousing a different viewpoint. Someone else made it political. That's not your fault. The only political connection I've made is that used a Breitbart link above, which is an openly politically oriented site. I didn't start the "SJW" discussion in either that thread or this one, and the facts that gay marriage opposition has been attacked and that the Hugo voting has been polarized aren't political. It may be my fault that I don't let blatantly political postings on one side of the political spectrum stand unchallenged, but LXer deserves better than to be a political echo chamber. |
| jdixon Jan 25, 2016 7:34 PM EDT |
> But I do get tired of seeing people who take a stance on social issues automatically branded and labeled as "poison." And yet that's exactly the way you're treating Lynch. I guess it's OK when you do it though. One law for me and other for thee. Added: Please note that this is a mistake on my part, and I apologize to brideoflinux below. She's done nothing of the kind. tbuitenh is the one who is dismissing Lynch's argument. |
| brideoflinux Jan 25, 2016 8:07 PM EDT |
@jimlynch "All I can about that is that you might want to skip reading them in the future." That's a perfect answer, and exactly the one I've often given. However, I'll continue to read your stuff, partly because that's what I do, but mainly because I like your writing. I was just extremely surprised to discover how far we are from seeing eye-to-eye. |
| jimlynch Jan 25, 2016 10:24 PM EDT |
Thanks for the compliment on my writing, Christine. Glad to hear you'll still be a reader. :) No worries on the different perspectives. I have friends who see things differently too, but it's all good. It keeps life interesting! ;) |
| BernardSwiss Jan 26, 2016 1:04 AM EDT |
@brideoflinux
@jimlynch Now that's how to conduct a civilized argument / genuine discussion / exchange of opinions! Bravo!!! |
| tbuitenh Jan 26, 2016 3:23 AM EDT |
If someone could point me to a linux news site that ONLY links to articles of the type “this application exists and here’s how you use it”, it would be much appreciated. LXer and Linuxtoday are full of politics and other treehouse nonsense. Calling others SJWs is just one type of treehouse nonsense, by the way. |
| jdixon Jan 26, 2016 7:12 AM EDT |
> Now that's how to conduct a civilized argument / genuine discussion / exchange of opinions! Yes, and I owe brideoflinux and apology. I misattributed tbuitenh's treatment of Lynch's argument to her. I apologize for the mistake. I've made a note to that effect above also. > Calling others SJWs is just one type of treehouse nonsense, by the way. Whereas dismissing people's arguments out of hand rather than on their merits is oh so mature. Yeah, everyone does it at one time or another. That doesn't make it the right thing to do. |
| tbuitenh Jan 26, 2016 8:13 AM EDT |
@jdixon There is no merit in treehouse nonsense. But I will admit I have a special dislike of anti-SJWs. Why? Well, society makes rape prevention 99% the responsibility of women, and 1% the responsibility of male bystanders. That means I’m expected to evaluate the trustworthiness of all men I interact with very quickly. I’m expected to look for red flags, and spouting anti-SJW opinions is a major red flag. Please don’t misunderstand, I don’t think the majority of anti-SJWs are serial rapists, but I would expect them to call me a liar and start a smear campaign against me if one of their buddies did something to me and I complained about it. That is, unfortunately, the reality I live in. I was being kind by saying anti-SJWs should be ignored. My real opinion is that it’s wise to stay a mile away from them because there are plenty of other men and women to interact with who don’t have such a huge red flag stuck to them. None of this should be taken as a statement about whether or not Jim Lynch is dangerous to anyone or would ever start a smear campaign against anyone for any reason. I’m not campaigning to have him removed from anything either, and I never will. I just happen to have the personal opinion that the guy is a huge creep. Freedom of speech exercised :) . |
| 750 Jan 26, 2016 9:09 AM EDT |
> Regarding the post about Facebook, it's important to note that Facebook's policy seems squarely aimed at anybody who disagrees with Angela Merkel's policy about flooding Germany with young Muslim men from the Middle East despite the sexual assaults, rapes and other violence being directed against German women by them. I can't imagine any sane person would consider people expressing opposition to any of that and wanting Germany to close its borders to more young Muslim men as being "racist" or "xenophobic." Sometimes the safety of the citizens of a country (particularly women) warrants immediate action, and I think that this is one of those cases. Stop reading the far right screeds, please. The events around new years were too well organized and happening in too many places to be some kind of inherent mentality. It had to be coordinated and organized, in a way to cause fear, panic and division. Here is the thing, the assholes down in Syria just as much feed on FUD as the far right groups around Europe. In essence, they feed off each other. The real issue for Europe is the continued EU austerity policy that is leaving much of the European youth idle. That is a recipe for trouble no matter the upbringing or skin color. |
| jimlynch Jan 26, 2016 9:16 AM EDT |
@tbuitenh Thanks for the...er...warm thoughts. ;) As far as being "dangerous" goes, if you knew me in person you'd get a pretty good chuckle about that. I'm a rather boring, middle aged dude that lifts weights, likes to write, reads a lot of books via Kindle and Audible and lives a very hobbitish sort of life. Not much in the way of adventures and that sort of thing happening on my end. And that's pretty much how I like it. :) |
| jdixon Jan 26, 2016 9:42 AM EDT |
> But I will admit I have a special dislike of anti-SJWs. That's OK. I have special dislike of SJW's. Mostly because of lies they've told about people I happen to like. > That is, unfortunately, the reality I live in. Well, it's the reality you think you live in. Whether that's the case or not is left as an exercise to the reader. > I was being kind by saying anti-SJWs should be ignored. My real opinion is that it’s wise to stay a mile away from them... I feel the same way about SJW's. Unfortunately, they don't seem to be willing to allow that. > Freedom of speech exercised :) . Likewise. Aren't you glad that it's allowed here, unlike on Facebook in Germany? |
| nmset Jan 26, 2016 1:09 PM EDT |
The TOS is becoming an irrelevant joke. But upstream it's worse as such articles with no tech substance have gone through the editorial board. |
| jdixon Jan 26, 2016 1:18 PM EDT |
> The TOS is becoming an irrelevant joke.. Everyone (including tbuitenh) seems to have done their best to avoid tying this discussion here to any specific political party or platform. It's primarily a free speech discussion. Yes, that's political. But it also ties into free software, as software is simply a form of written speech. |
| skelband Jan 26, 2016 1:47 PM EDT |
As has been said before, Open Source and Free Software *are* political movements, although not overtly party political.
I think the TOS was intended to cover overt party politicking. It's hard discussing the IT industry or free software without becoming political in some measure. In the past where TOS was invoked, discussion had turned to purely political debate which had diverged from the core issue of Free Software. From my reading, SJW as labeled is often used to refer to the extremists of the social agenda. There are ways of implementing change without sneaking into organisations and destroying them from within which is the claim inference of the original article. RMS is a prime example of how change can be implemented without do this. He espouses a staunch view and tries to live it to the best of his abilities. He didn't try to infiltrate Microsoft and destroy them from the inside. He merely provided an alternative and invited others to join him. And so we now have the Free Software movement. It is possible to effect change. But those who would take on such a role need to understand two things: 1) You don't really need to be an arse about it. 2) Real change takes generations. You cannot change entrenched attitudes. |
| jdixon Jan 26, 2016 3:00 PM EDT |
> As has been said before, Open Source and Free Software *are* political movements, although not overtly party political. Exactly. It's a fine line the moderators have to walk. They normally do a good job. But if I cross the line, they're not shy about slapping me down. |
| nmset Jan 26, 2016 4:15 PM EDT |
> Open Source and Free Software *are* political movements That's debatable and I won't do that here. The article speaks about what Facebook does in a country. There's nothing related to Open Source and Free Software in that behaviour, really nothing. In that respect, it should not have been proposed to readers. |
| jdixon Jan 26, 2016 4:51 PM EDT |
> The article speaks about what Facebook does in a country. There's nothing related to Open Source and Free Software in that behaviour, Do you really think there's no way a piece of open source software can be classified as “racist” or “xenophobic”? |
| nmset Jan 26, 2016 6:51 PM EDT |
>Do you really.... I don 't understand your point, please clarify in the context of the article. |
| jdixon Jan 26, 2016 7:21 PM EDT |
> ,,, please clarify in the context of the article. Facebook is shutting down any speech which it deems “racist” or “xenophobic”? Do you really think if someone adapted an open source database/search engine combo to search for, categorize, and publicize the various crimes committed by immigrants in the EU that they wouldn't shut down all the results it provided, all mention of the program, and all links to it? |
| tbuitenh Jan 27, 2016 3:15 AM EDT |
First of all, I should say this: I remember writing all those words, but I don’t recognize the tbuitenh above as myself. I’m on medicines that are not *for* the brain, but that can have some pretty wild side effects on it. So, sorry for being such a drama queen, especially in that last post. Now, let’s see if I can put my point of view into words respectfully and without dramatic nonsense. If I can’t, I’m withdrawing my internet privileges for a few weeks at least, until I have proper self control again. 1) In my experience, SJW is something that women will get called for daring to exist near a computer. It’s the same type of insult as “feminazi” was a few years ago. Obviously “feminazi” is a Godwin, and I’m inclined to treat “SJW” the same way even though it contains no reference to Hitler, simply because it is being used by the same people for the same purpose. 2) I believe the idea that “SJWs” are infiltrating anything to be a conspiracy theory. All I see is some very frustrated women trying to stand up for themselves, and them having waited far too long to do so which makes it impossible to resolve the issues in a more productive way. 3) When (1) and (2) are combined, SWATings and rape threats happen. It probably isn’t fair to hold people who are only writing articles responsible for that, but it’s making it very difficult not to dismiss everyone who calls someone else “SJW” as just another paranoid sexist who wants to threaten women away from the computer and back into the kitchen. Even when they’re not sexist and merely believing a conspiracy theory. |
| jdixon Jan 27, 2016 7:12 AM EDT |
> ...In my experience, SJW is something that women will get called for daring to exist near a computer. Possibly, just as numerous other terms are used insultingly and incorrectly. But that's not the common definition. The current usage of the term seems to be fairly well summed up by know your meme: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/social-justice-warrior As to the rest, whether SJW's are poor innocent lambs merely trying to make their way in the world or whether they're self righteous attackers, trying to make sure other people merely practicing their religion or working for a living have no place in society; well, as you say above,that's left as an exercise for the reader. There's plenty out there to research. The links I gave above are merely the tip of the iceberg. People have to make up their own minds. And, as is usually the case, the truth is probably somewhere between the two. |
| caitlynm Jan 27, 2016 3:55 PM EDT |
Quoting:Do you really think there's no way a piece of open source software can be classified as “racist” or “xenophobic”?I've seen projects where releases were given overtly political names to make political statement or a name designed to be pejorative to a given group, so of course it can happen. I'm torn on these types of issues. On one hand I do see people on the hard left who take positions hostile to a nation or ethnic group they don't like and use pejorative and hostile language towards anyone who does not share their views. I see exactly the same on the right, but those people aren't "SJW"s because that term is used for leftist/progressive political views. These days I try to associate with whoever hates me least and also make my political choices based on that criteria. It's truly sad. Oh, and FWIW, I left LinuxChix a decade ago because people who today would be called SJWs took positions which amounted to supporting the destruction of the country where the majority of my family lives. Lovely people. Oh so liberal and high minded, too. Some are still very active in FOSS and are still pushing their agenda. |
| jdixon Jan 27, 2016 4:39 PM EDT |
> ...so of course it can happen. Thanks, Caitlyn. Some people seem to think open source is immune to political polarization and manipulation. They are sadly mistaken. > These days I try to associate with whoever hates me least and also make my political choices based on that criteria. It's truly sad. There should be room in this world for a private life outside of politics, but that seems to be drifting farther and farther away as time passes. And forces from both sides seem intent on making everyone choose a side, when all most people want is to be left alone. :( |
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