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Ubuntu Stealing Linux Thunder?
This has been charged over and again. While I can certainly see how some people might feel that Linux is being seen as a single distribution, I would also point out that the Ubuntu developers and the companies that support Ubuntu are not doing anything that cannot be duplicated. |
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Comments (44)
24 earlier comments in the full thread.
The Mandriva website is a case study in how not to build a website.
The PowerPack is worth the money. I've donated to Mepis, PCLOS and a couple others over the years, 2008.1 was so good that I consider the $59 a worthwhile donation. Funny, I had PCLOS on my girl's PC, bought Mandriva to give her something more stable, while I would use PCLOS and have something a little more cutting edge. Now I use Mandriva and I left PCLOS on her PC because it's running perfectly and having no issues.
Quoting:I don't quite know what Mandriva's situation is as far as what they offer for free and what they sell. Right now, everything works OK. Not as well as PCLinuxOS, and not as well as Ubuntu 8.04 ... but pretty well nonetheless.
Interesting. My experience is the opposite.
Quoting:My experience is the opposite.
Different hardware, different results. That's the way it goes.
I've got one box that won't boot anything past Red Hat/CentOS 3, any recent Fedora, PCLinuxOS, Mandriva, FreeBSD, NetBSD and a bunch of others, yet it will run Ubuntu, Debian, Slackware, OpenBSD, Puppy, Damn Small Linux, Mepis, and a bunch of others.
But again, I did like Mandriva. The GNOME desktops in Ubuntu and Debian, as they default, are more to my liking. But as with PCLinuxOS, the way Mandriva does KDE is much better -- for me, anyway -- than Debian or Ubuntu.
Quoting:I suspect, then, it was a typo, you left out the Ubuntu in
Duh! Now I see it...
Apparently the sentences "Ubuntu isn't the only Linux out there" and "Ubuntu Linux isn't the only thing out there" got mixed up somewhere. Fixed.
@Sander, what you and I do is fairly similar, except I tell them they are getting mandriva, and can change that when they have become sufficiently familiar with Linux to make the decision.
Quoting:@devnet: I don't know the answer, but my question for you is whether other distros would be on slashdot and digg so much if Ubuntu didn't exist.
Well they'd have to talk about something wouldn't they? So the answer is yes, something would fill the gap.
Ok...let me give an example of what this is really about.
What's a kleenex?
Most people in the US Midwest refer to tissues as Kleenex...because of brand loyalty and saturation, that is what they're known as and other tissues don't get ANYTHING close to the sales that kleenex do/did.
Ubuntu is becoming THE brand for Linux. So when innovation like what is happening with OpenSuse right now happens, it is less important.
That's my real problem. For example, MEPIS has had the easiest installer since 2003. PCLinuxOS has been able to remaster/create new distro since 2003 (and create usb installation and usb home). None of this is known...and all of it is attributed to other distros.
What's a kleenex?
Most people in the US Midwest refer to tissues as Kleenex...because of brand loyalty and saturation, that is what they're known as and other tissues don't get ANYTHING close to the sales that kleenex do/did.
Ubuntu is becoming THE brand for Linux. So when innovation like what is happening with OpenSuse right now happens, it is less important.
That's my real problem. For example, MEPIS has had the easiest installer since 2003. PCLinuxOS has been able to remaster/create new distro since 2003 (and create usb installation and usb home). None of this is known...and all of it is attributed to other distros.
If PCLinuxOS had the resources of Canonical, it could do a hell of a lot. As it is, it's doing pretty damn well. But right now, the name of the game is getting your distro preinstalled by a big company like HP, Dell or Lenovo.
And in that department, it looks like Xandros (ASUS eee) and SUSE (HP) are doing pretty darn well. I haven't heard of any new Ubuntu preinstalls, but I could be missing some.
And in that department, it looks like Xandros (ASUS eee) and SUSE (HP) are doing pretty darn well. I haven't heard of any new Ubuntu preinstalls, but I could be missing some.
Steven,
You may have missed this one http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu
Unless by "new", you mean just this year.
You may have missed this one http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/ubuntu
Unless by "new", you mean just this year.
That Dell link gives me a "Page Not Found." But I'm pretty much taking about this year.
I'm not sure about the full impact of Dell's Ubuntu adventure, but between aiming it a fanboys only, burying it on their Web site and providing little to no financial incentive to choose a free OS over Windows, along with not making sure all the hardware worked with Ubuntu, I'd say it's time for Dell to re-evaluate what they're doing.
I'm not sure about the full impact of Dell's Ubuntu adventure, but between aiming it a fanboys only, burying it on their Web site and providing little to no financial incentive to choose a free OS over Windows, along with not making sure all the hardware worked with Ubuntu, I'd say it's time for Dell to re-evaluate what they're doing.
Dead link?
> Dead link?
We're Sorry
The page you requested may no longer exist on Dell.com
We're Sorry
The page you requested may no longer exist on Dell.com
Quoting:Dead Link
Yeah Dell's Linux thing deosn't seem to me to have been that serious, more and more it seems to me it was a Marketing thing, a way to grab headlines, and therefore better name recognition, in the face of competition. As such it worked.
The good thing about it, is that other manufacturers saw a real market there - Asus Eee, and the Elonex ONE.
>> Dead link
Curious. Apparently, the link I provided is not a permalink. Typing "Ubuntu" in the keyword search does find the page. The link seems to persist across sessions for me, but not across days.
>> Yeah Dell's Linux thing deosn't seem to me to have been that >> serious, more and more it seems to me it was a Marketing thing, >> a way to grab headlines, and therefore better name recognition, >> in the face of competition. As such it worked.
Well, duh! Of course it was a Marketing thing. They are a business. Did you think it was charity? You can also bet that it was serious. (Responsible) Businesses don't throw money at things they aren't serious about. When the Linux market matures enough you will see it advertised on their home page. In the meantime, expect Dell and others to test the waters now and then.
>> The good thing about it, is that other manufacturers saw a real >> market there - Asus Eee, and the Elonex ONE.
Ask any random individual in the super market: What's a Dell? They'll know the answer. Ask them: What's an Elonex? "Umm. I dunno. Do you blow your nose with it?" What's an Asus? "What did you call me?"
And back we go to discussing market maturity.
The unfortunate thing (at least from my perspective) is that Asus and Elonex and Zareason and others will spend huge amounts of time and effort growing the market to maturity and Dell and HP will harvest the results. It's very rare that one of the little guys ends up becoming on of the big guys. Ironically, Dell is one exception to that rule.
Curious. Apparently, the link I provided is not a permalink. Typing "Ubuntu" in the keyword search does find the page. The link seems to persist across sessions for me, but not across days.
>> Yeah Dell's Linux thing deosn't seem to me to have been that >> serious, more and more it seems to me it was a Marketing thing, >> a way to grab headlines, and therefore better name recognition, >> in the face of competition. As such it worked.
Well, duh! Of course it was a Marketing thing. They are a business. Did you think it was charity? You can also bet that it was serious. (Responsible) Businesses don't throw money at things they aren't serious about. When the Linux market matures enough you will see it advertised on their home page. In the meantime, expect Dell and others to test the waters now and then.
>> The good thing about it, is that other manufacturers saw a real >> market there - Asus Eee, and the Elonex ONE.
Ask any random individual in the super market: What's a Dell? They'll know the answer. Ask them: What's an Elonex? "Umm. I dunno. Do you blow your nose with it?" What's an Asus? "What did you call me?"
And back we go to discussing market maturity.
The unfortunate thing (at least from my perspective) is that Asus and Elonex and Zareason and others will spend huge amounts of time and effort growing the market to maturity and Dell and HP will harvest the results. It's very rare that one of the little guys ends up becoming on of the big guys. Ironically, Dell is one exception to that rule.
Quoting:>> Yeah Dell's Linux thing deosn't seem to me to have been that >> serious, more and more it seems to me it was a Marketing thing, >> a way to grab headlines, and therefore better name recognition, >> in the face of competition. As such it worked.That wasn't the point (at least I don't think so). Dell's "we've got Linux!" hand-waving was only a headline-grab. As such, the decision was likely made by the marketing department, not by executives with marketing's input.
Well, duh! Of course it was a Marketing thing. They are a business. Did you think it was charity? You can also bet that it was serious. (Responsible) Businesses don't throw money at things they aren't serious about. When the Linux market matures enough you will see it advertised on their home page. In the meantime, expect Dell and others to test the waters now and then.
Shipping a few units may be fine, but unless they've also made the necessary internal adjustments to support those units, their calls to get our Linux from Dell ring mighty hollow.
>> Dell's "we've got Linux!" hand-waving was only a headline-grab.
Really? Then why are they still selling it? Why burden themselves with it when the opportunity to draw attention has come and gone.
The emotional desire to see Linux marketed to the masses by the big boys is our common bond. However, our emotional desire isn't the basis for a sound business plan. When it is sound business, they'll do it (as will everyone.)
Then we'll whine and bitch because they are too late, or because they aren't doing it big enough, or because Linux still has to share space with some other OS on their web pages, or because they chose the wrong distro, or because they don't support EVDO version X from vendor Y, etc., etc., etc.
We're winning! Linux is increasing and its primary competitor is decreasing. I just find it odd that our form of celebration involves the vilification of any business that dares offer Linux while continuing to service the bulk of their customer base which doesn't want it (yet.)
Human nature amazes me.
Really? Then why are they still selling it? Why burden themselves with it when the opportunity to draw attention has come and gone.
The emotional desire to see Linux marketed to the masses by the big boys is our common bond. However, our emotional desire isn't the basis for a sound business plan. When it is sound business, they'll do it (as will everyone.)
Then we'll whine and bitch because they are too late, or because they aren't doing it big enough, or because Linux still has to share space with some other OS on their web pages, or because they chose the wrong distro, or because they don't support EVDO version X from vendor Y, etc., etc., etc.
We're winning! Linux is increasing and its primary competitor is decreasing. I just find it odd that our form of celebration involves the vilification of any business that dares offer Linux while continuing to service the bulk of their customer base which doesn't want it (yet.)
Human nature amazes me.
@NoDough:
How dare you question our fervent pursuit of ideology over practical functionality! :)
How dare you question our fervent pursuit of ideology over practical functionality! :)
Quoting:Really? Then why are they still selling it? Why burden themselves with it when the opportunity to draw attention has come and gone.
Well it's still not available in Australia, so it looks to me that they aren't burdening themselves.
I hope Dell regains its footing and really pushes Linux, be it Ubuntu, Suse or Red Hat. I have a feeling, however, that Dell isn't particularly interested in the non-fanboy market.
It's smart to get fanboys in your corner. You have to start there. But you need to let the rest of the world know what a modern Linux distribution can do for them.
I get the feeling that Dell and many others feel that the average user, accustomed to the Windows and Mac way of doing things, just can't wrap his/her head around having every application available via a package manager and not having to buy/borrow/steal discs in order to install software.
At this point, it's all about educating the public as to how Linux differs from Windows/Mac and how those differences can be of great benefit.
It's smart to get fanboys in your corner. You have to start there. But you need to let the rest of the world know what a modern Linux distribution can do for them.
I get the feeling that Dell and many others feel that the average user, accustomed to the Windows and Mac way of doing things, just can't wrap his/her head around having every application available via a package manager and not having to buy/borrow/steal discs in order to install software.
At this point, it's all about educating the public as to how Linux differs from Windows/Mac and how those differences can be of great benefit.
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