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Apple: Worse for open source than Microsoft?
For as long as anyone can remember Microsoft has been seen as the primary enemy of free and open source software (FOSS). Free software advocates over the years have held Microsoft up as the pre-eminent example of how software should not be produced and distributed; an example of how they did not want it to be. |
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Comments (38)
again, the wrong question
and then there is CUPS:
http://www.cups.org/
"CUPS is the standards-based, open source printing system developed by Apple Inc. for Mac OS® X and other UNIX®-like operating systems."
I don't like how they treat all their Jesus-items. But hey it would suck to have no printer support.
I don't like how they treat all their Jesus-items. But hey it would suck to have no printer support.
It wouldn't happen. CUPS is under the GPL, with special adjustments for printer drivers, SSL, and Kerberos. http://www.cups.org/documentation.php/license.html
I expect if Apple tried to jerk around CUPS users, a fork would promptly appear called SPOOC, the Standard Printing On Our Computers.
I expect if Apple tried to jerk around CUPS users, a fork would promptly appear called SPOOC, the Standard Printing On Our Computers.
Apple did not invent CUPS, they bought it a couple years ago from its inventor and main developer, Michael Sweet.
Coming back to the main idea however, I agree: Apple is now as dangerous as Microsoft, if not more so; gus3 hit it right on the nose in his first post. I used to suggest to exasperated Windows users to move to Apple if they thought they could not handle Linux in one of its many distro forms. I have not done so for the past year and never will again: I now recommend nothing else but Linux.
A prison cell with gold plated taps, ensuite, ultra modern furnishings, pristine cleanliness, entertainment system and guards in fancy clothing .........is still a prison cell (Oh yes, and you pay, and pay, and PAY for remaining in that cell ~ a curious inversion of normality). As far as I can see, Apple has only one aim now (apart from increasing profits) and that is to ensure vendor lock-in is applied even more brutally and efficiently. Use Apple, lose freedom......a simple motto, but not yet understood by the lemmings galloping towards the cliff of Apple nirvana.
A prison cell with gold plated taps, ensuite, ultra modern furnishings, pristine cleanliness, entertainment system and guards in fancy clothing .........is still a prison cell (Oh yes, and you pay, and pay, and PAY for remaining in that cell ~ a curious inversion of normality). As far as I can see, Apple has only one aim now (apart from increasing profits) and that is to ensure vendor lock-in is applied even more brutally and efficiently. Use Apple, lose freedom......a simple motto, but not yet understood by the lemmings galloping towards the cliff of Apple nirvana.
Apple is way more dangerous than MS. MS has been motivated by traditional business motives: revenue and market share. Its been willing to cut corners to increase them, but its never much cared what you did with your machines, as long as you did it with MS stuff. MS has also always been willing to trade off big segments of the market to others, in exchange for dominance of the bits it is in, and an increase in the total size of the market and thus the absolute size of the segment it dominates.
Apple is pursuing a quite different strategy, its total control of everything users do. If you look a the iPhone/iPad as the realization of Cupertino's dream, its a model in which the supplier dictates what hardware you run the OS on, what software tools are used to develop apps, what apps may be run, what content may be bought, how you buy it. A company that gets itself into the position of banning content on hardware customers have bought and paid for, because they find it indecent, though its perfectly lawful in the jurisdiction, well, it speaks for itself. A company that bans political cartoons in case some people should find them offensive!? On phones that they have sold outright!
Apple has always been supply limited because of its approach. Back in the last century, if Apple had had its way, you want a computer, well, just wait until we get around to you, and pay huge amounts. The licensing issue of the OS had the consequence that if you wanted a computer, you were obliged to go elsewhere. If Apple had its way, the total market would be a fraction of what it is now, prices would be far higher, conditions on use would be draconian. It would be a bit like waiting for the Trabi in East Germany. Stand in line until we decide you are worthy to be served.
Doubt it? Well, what about the lifetime quota on purchases of iPads?
This approach is basically incompatible with Western liberal values. The danger of it is that we end up with a world in which Apple does not necessarily have dominant market share, but in which dominant market share is owned by a corporate oligarchy which shares its approach, and the result is limitation of debate and access to information.
Ricullly and gus3 are right both of them. But the question we should be asking is perhaps a bit wider: which of MS and Apple is more dangerous to society, and what can we do about the dangers to society and intellectual freedom that Apple poses, that MS does not pose.
One answer is never to buy their stuff, and to argue against its purchase by any public bodies we influence. What is really needed is to get Apple totally out of the education sector. That is where their example of unacceptable limitations on intellectual freedom can do the most damage.
Apple is pursuing a quite different strategy, its total control of everything users do. If you look a the iPhone/iPad as the realization of Cupertino's dream, its a model in which the supplier dictates what hardware you run the OS on, what software tools are used to develop apps, what apps may be run, what content may be bought, how you buy it. A company that gets itself into the position of banning content on hardware customers have bought and paid for, because they find it indecent, though its perfectly lawful in the jurisdiction, well, it speaks for itself. A company that bans political cartoons in case some people should find them offensive!? On phones that they have sold outright!
Apple has always been supply limited because of its approach. Back in the last century, if Apple had had its way, you want a computer, well, just wait until we get around to you, and pay huge amounts. The licensing issue of the OS had the consequence that if you wanted a computer, you were obliged to go elsewhere. If Apple had its way, the total market would be a fraction of what it is now, prices would be far higher, conditions on use would be draconian. It would be a bit like waiting for the Trabi in East Germany. Stand in line until we decide you are worthy to be served.
Doubt it? Well, what about the lifetime quota on purchases of iPads?
This approach is basically incompatible with Western liberal values. The danger of it is that we end up with a world in which Apple does not necessarily have dominant market share, but in which dominant market share is owned by a corporate oligarchy which shares its approach, and the result is limitation of debate and access to information.
Ricullly and gus3 are right both of them. But the question we should be asking is perhaps a bit wider: which of MS and Apple is more dangerous to society, and what can we do about the dangers to society and intellectual freedom that Apple poses, that MS does not pose.
One answer is never to buy their stuff, and to argue against its purchase by any public bodies we influence. What is really needed is to get Apple totally out of the education sector. That is where their example of unacceptable limitations on intellectual freedom can do the most damage.
Use Apple, lose freedom......a simple motto, but not yet understood by the lemmings galloping towards the cliff of Apple nirvana.
It's the glitter of "Ooh shiny" blinding their eyes and the myth that owning Apple kit makes you "young, trendy, hip and important".
It is the only reason I can think of why some rabid Apple fans defend the corrupt ways of Apple to the death. If they truly believe Apple is their only ticket to "stardom"...
It's the glitter of "Ooh shiny" blinding their eyes and the myth that owning Apple kit makes you "young, trendy, hip and important".
It is the only reason I can think of why some rabid Apple fans defend the corrupt ways of Apple to the death. If they truly believe Apple is their only ticket to "stardom"...
Quoting:myth that owning Apple kit makes you "young, trendy, hip and important".Follower, gullible, pawn!
Quoting:If they truly believe Apple is their only ticket to "stardom"...People used to think the same of the RIAA.
Quoting:If they truly believe Apple is their only ticket to "stardom"...
Did you read the Brittish survey in which they found out 'men who own an iPhone' are more attractive? The problem is not only men believing Apple is their ticket to stardom, the problem is also women believing men who own an iPhone are more succesful and better at their jobs.
http://www.cellular-news.com/story/42948.php
ROFL.
Thanks for the morning laughs.
uh...yeah...or stupid and in debt....
Since when does knowing how to use an iPhone make you good with computers?
edit: Almost missed this one:
Man, maybe I SHOULD buy one of the fake Rolexes I'm always getting spammed about...maybe it really would make me irresistible and make all my dreams come true! :P
Quoting: One respondent suggested "if he has an iPhone then he's obviously intelligent and well-off."
uh...yeah...or stupid and in debt....
Quoting: "There's just something about a man who's good with computers that makes him more trustworthy," gushed Lucy, a 23-year-old gold-digging primary school teacher from London. "If he's got the cash for an iPhone then he must be very good at his job, too."
Since when does knowing how to use an iPhone make you good with computers?
edit: Almost missed this one:
Quoting: In another recent study, however, it was discovered that men who own the iPhone tend to have £3,750 less disposable income per annum than those who do not own an iPhone; proof that first impressions may not always be accurate in the dating game.
Man, maybe I SHOULD buy one of the fake Rolexes I'm always getting spammed about...maybe it really would make me irresistible and make all my dreams come true! :P
Quoting:In another recent study, however, it was discovered that men who own the iPhone tend to have £3,750 less disposable income per annum than those who do not own an iPhone; proof that first impressions may not always be accurate in the dating game.
Well, yeah, they spend so much on overprices Apple gadgets that they can't afford food anymore...
Apple and Microsoft are both busy setting up new tollbooths to siphon money off of people with. Apple appears to be focussed on having users directly pay at the tollbooths. Microsoft lately looks to me more like they're setting up their tollbooths at the "provider" end (getting companies under NDA's to pay Microsoft for permission to use Linux, etc.).
Oh yawn! Where have you people been the last ten years?
6 earlier comments in the full thread.
> You know why there's an 'A' in BSA? That's for Apple...
That's an exaggeration. Yes, Apple is a member of the BSA. So are Dell, HP, and IBM ([url=http://www.bsa.org/country/BSA and Members/Our Members.aspx]http://www.bsa.org/country/BSA and Members/Our Members.aspx[/url]). And I don't think the BSA funded SCO's lawsuits.
> Apple has also been relentless in their attacks on free speech...
Yep. But those aren't attacks on FOSS as such. With respect to freedom in general, Apple is far worse than Microsoft. With respect to FOSS, that's not the case.
That's an exaggeration. Yes, Apple is a member of the BSA. So are Dell, HP, and IBM ([url=http://www.bsa.org/country/BSA and Members/Our Members.aspx]http://www.bsa.org/country/BSA and Members/Our Members.aspx[/url]). And I don't think the BSA funded SCO's lawsuits.
> Apple has also been relentless in their attacks on free speech...
Yep. But those aren't attacks on FOSS as such. With respect to freedom in general, Apple is far worse than Microsoft. With respect to FOSS, that's not the case.
>With respect to FOSS, that's not the case.
I'm sorry, but that's not true. FOSS relies on a subset of the freedom surrounding speech, property, etc.
FOSS does not live in a vacuum.
Anything that diminishes those freedoms further constrains the environment in which FOSS lives, and makes acceptable that which would have been unthinkable.
I'm sorry, but that's not true. FOSS relies on a subset of the freedom surrounding speech, property, etc.
FOSS does not live in a vacuum.
Anything that diminishes those freedoms further constrains the environment in which FOSS lives, and makes acceptable that which would have been unthinkable.
> I'm sorry, but that's not true. FOSS relies on a subset of the freedom surrounding speech, property, etc.
While that's true, Apple's attacks (with the exception of HTC) aren't aimed directly at FOSS. Microsoft's are. Thus, Microsoft is the more immediate and severe threat. I'm not arguing that Apple's actions are a good thing, merely that their threat to FOSS (and freedom in general) is more long term.
And Apple's influence is constrained by their market share and relatively high price for their products. They're far more susceptible to market forces than Microsoft is.
Unless people want to argue that Apple has a monopoly in "cool and hip electronic devices", of course. I'd like to see the look on the judge's face when that was argued in court.
While that's true, Apple's attacks (with the exception of HTC) aren't aimed directly at FOSS. Microsoft's are. Thus, Microsoft is the more immediate and severe threat. I'm not arguing that Apple's actions are a good thing, merely that their threat to FOSS (and freedom in general) is more long term.
And Apple's influence is constrained by their market share and relatively high price for their products. They're far more susceptible to market forces than Microsoft is.
Unless people want to argue that Apple has a monopoly in "cool and hip electronic devices", of course. I'd like to see the look on the judge's face when that was argued in court.
Apple's influence, thanks to iPods, iPhones, and the new iPads is huge.
Ok, I suggest we canvass those bastions of freedom ... the cell phone oligarchy and the music business to finance our attack on Apple. That should provide some change to hire lawyers and aids to initiate our case. However, I strongly suggest we use most of the funds collected for parties and assorted debauchery, so at the end we can at least say honestly we enjoyed our pursuit of Justice and the American Way*.
YBT
* Superman, where are you when we really need you?
YBT
* Superman, where are you when we really need you?
Quoting:FOSS does not live in a vacuum. Anything that diminishes those freedoms further constrains the environment in which FOSS lives, and makes acceptable that which would have been unthinkable.
Here I am still wincing from dino's correctness at the top of the thread and here he goes and says something else I totally agree with..;-)
Rock on Dino..
Quoting:Here I am still wincing from dino's correctness at the top of the thread and here he goes and says something else I totally agree with..You noticed that too. I have been questioning my sanity lately due to that phenomena, but since I am no longer alone I may be slightly less crazy than I thought.
YBT
Scott and Txt --
Relax and take in a few deep breaths. The phenomenon you are experiencing is nothing more and nothing less than personal growth and intellectual awakening. It's a good thing.
Just remember -- Dino's not always right, at least not in the long run. One of these days, I'm sure to make a mistake. Seriously, it's bound to happen.
One of these days.
Relax and take in a few deep breaths. The phenomenon you are experiencing is nothing more and nothing less than personal growth and intellectual awakening. It's a good thing.
Just remember -- Dino's not always right, at least not in the long run. One of these days, I'm sure to make a mistake. Seriously, it's bound to happen.
One of these days.
Quoting:Here I am still wincing from dino's correctness at the top of the thread and here he goes and says something else I totally agree with..;-)
I never thought I'd say this when it came to agreeing with dino, but... yeah, me too.
In the words of the cow from The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, I think I'll just nip off and shoot myself.
caitlyn -
If it helps, you can think of me as a broken clock.
If it helps, you can think of me as a broken clock.
A broken digital clock displays a blank screen.
No deep meaning there, just an observation.
No deep meaning there, just an observation.
Quoting:Just remember -- Dino's not always right, [...]But that's the problem, I could be nearly certain if dino was for it - it had to be wrong. Now i am agreeing with him/her/it* and I wondering if I have lost my moorings seeping towards the wrong side in the Star Wars sense**. I am at a loss, adrift in dino doubts.
Sad.
YBT
* I know d@mn well it is a him, but have to be P.C. about it.
** But it never made any sense to me.
Use the Farce, kook.
dino,
Where have you been? Anyway, glad you are back!
YBT
Where have you been? Anyway, glad you are back!
YBT
Txt --
Been busy trying to get my act together in hopes of scaring up a little work. Now that I've given up, I can come back.
Been busy trying to get my act together in hopes of scaring up a little work. Now that I've given up, I can come back.
Quoting:A broken digital clock displays a blank screen.response 1: Does that mean it has achieved Enlightenment?
response 2: Or it displays 18:88.
"Oh yeah, I forgot -- you've been kvetching at Microsoft while your freedom rots away around you.
Yo, boys and girls. You think Apple has brought this monstrosity upon us? Really?
Riddle me this, Batman: In the United States, how different is Apple from all of the cell-phone providers? For years, people have been trained to get ring-tones, apps, etc from the people who sell them phones -- locked cell phones, I might add.
Apple may be taking things to a new level, but not that far removed from what's been happening for some time. Mostly, they've just moved to a platform that looks more like a computer and has gotten your interest."
totally agree dino - the cell phone industry just plain sucks and it will get worse. you cannot do anything with your phone and the telecommunication providers will see that you don't.
On another note I think there really needs to be some health investigations into cell phones and what they can do to people. I have seen some dam powerful phones that I don't think I want by my brain. I guarantee some of these phone cannot be good for your brain.
Yo, boys and girls. You think Apple has brought this monstrosity upon us? Really?
Riddle me this, Batman: In the United States, how different is Apple from all of the cell-phone providers? For years, people have been trained to get ring-tones, apps, etc from the people who sell them phones -- locked cell phones, I might add.
Apple may be taking things to a new level, but not that far removed from what's been happening for some time. Mostly, they've just moved to a platform that looks more like a computer and has gotten your interest."
totally agree dino - the cell phone industry just plain sucks and it will get worse. you cannot do anything with your phone and the telecommunication providers will see that you don't.
On another note I think there really needs to be some health investigations into cell phones and what they can do to people. I have seen some dam powerful phones that I don't think I want by my brain. I guarantee some of these phone cannot be good for your brain.
jsusanka -
Don't worry about the health aspects.
I have -- Hey! What was that? -- cell fones two, and (Will somebody stop ringing that stupid bell?) not never...wat was I saing?
Oh yeah -- Who!! is that little guy green?
no hurt brane.
Don't worry about the health aspects.
I have -- Hey! What was that? -- cell fones two, and (Will somebody stop ringing that stupid bell?) not never...wat was I saing?
Oh yeah -- Who!! is that little guy green?
no hurt brane.
"...and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."
The US was accustomed to having a monopoly phone provider.
When long distance was "re-regulated", the local monopoly providers were left in place. So again, US residents continued to be accustomed to a monopoly phone service provider.
Now cell phone providers, cable providers, POTS providers, all generally have a monopoly grant to operate in any given area. There are reciprocal agreements in place, so that my Virgin phone can connect through AT&Ts towers, but they don't all do that everywhere either.
Most, I would argue the vast majority of, Americans are not even aware that it's possible to get cell phones that are not locked to a particular service provider, and it has never occurred to them to question it because they have no frame of reference to even imagine it.
The US was accustomed to having a monopoly phone provider.
When long distance was "re-regulated", the local monopoly providers were left in place. So again, US residents continued to be accustomed to a monopoly phone service provider.
Now cell phone providers, cable providers, POTS providers, all generally have a monopoly grant to operate in any given area. There are reciprocal agreements in place, so that my Virgin phone can connect through AT&Ts towers, but they don't all do that everywhere either.
Most, I would argue the vast majority of, Americans are not even aware that it's possible to get cell phones that are not locked to a particular service provider, and it has never occurred to them to question it because they have no frame of reference to even imagine it.
Bob_R....
My family is big on unlocked phones, though they are a little more trouble to find and (initially) more expensive.
Right now, my phone puts up an AT&T splash screen on my T Mobile service.
Gotta love it.
My family is big on unlocked phones, though they are a little more trouble to find and (initially) more expensive.
Right now, my phone puts up an AT&T splash screen on my T Mobile service.
Gotta love it.
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Besides, Microsoft is now part-owner of Apple, so they aren't as separate as their PR would suggest.
The correct questions are: 1. Can methods of fighting Microsoft's anti-FOSS efforts work against Apple as well? 2. If not, how must we adjust our methods?