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Linux - Why This Is Not The Time
http://lobby4linux.com/modules/weblog/details.php?blog_id=28 |
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Comments (16)
evolution, not revolution
My take on this is that there will never really be a 'breakout'. We have seen a steadily increasing but evolutionary development of Linux in the last couple of years. I see this continuing. I suspect that one morning we will wake up and note that Linux has quietly taken the field... No fireworks, no breakout at all.
I posted this to the author. This a major issue and shouldn't be taken lightly. I am not saying there is definitely a solution, but there just might be one already.
Why don't you be more specific about the problem? It would be very helpful if you could specify the hardware your daughter has, the Linux Distro she tried, and what was attempted to resolve the problem. May be she should take a look at http://www.linuxcompatible.org/compatibility.html to see if any one else had any success with the hardware she has.
Why don't you be more specific about the problem? It would be very helpful if you could specify the hardware your daughter has, the Linux Distro she tried, and what was attempted to resolve the problem. May be she should take a look at http://www.linuxcompatible.org/compatibility.html to see if any one else had any success with the hardware she has.
I said 5 days Abe...Linuxcompatable, hp, T mobile, pclinux german forums...I spent most of that 5 days trying to help her. She is so burnt out on it, she just wants to use her computer. She needs to USE her computer, not fidget with one seemingly incurable problem. I have emails and calls into 9 different companies that say they have the answer, but it all comes back to one elusive driver.
She is happy with Windows now and I don't blame her. No one should have to waste almost a week of their life to do something so simple. Had I had that much trouble getting a simple function to work I doubt I would be a Linux User today.
She is happy with Windows now and I don't blame her. No one should have to waste almost a week of their life to do something so simple. Had I had that much trouble getting a simple function to work I doubt I would be a Linux User today.
This comment is from /. today
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/12/29/2258200&tid=126&...
I bought a laptop with a Turion64 processor and secured a copy of XP64 Pro from my work (the surprised tech had to dig in his desk for it). I got it up and running, but....
No drivers. No trackpad driver, no video driver, no sound, nada. Not even on the manufacturer's site.
Well, good thing Ubuntu64 works just fine.
So what is the verdict?. AMD64 not ready, WIN64 not ready?
No drivers. No trackpad driver, no video driver, no sound, nada. Not even on the manufacturer's site.
Well, good thing Ubuntu64 works just fine.
So what is the verdict?. AMD64 not ready, WIN64 not ready?
Hmmm.
A bit of an over reaction Helios.
I have three scanners here at home, none of them work on XP or LInux. They're all pre-XP era and none of them have drivers for XP, just forums filled with angry owners who don't understand why Microsoft have obsoleted their scanner and why the manufacturer hasn't done "something about it".
The fact that none of them work doesn't tempt me to a) write off Linux as useless or not ready, b) write off XP as useless rubbish with a third rate driver database (even though it's true), c) curse the makers of scanners, OS's and drivers.
You know full well why the wireless didn't work and it has NOTHING to do with Linux being unready. It's because Microsoft have sorely rigged the market place in favour of themselves. This in no way makes Linux unfit or unready. It merely makes it the unwitting victim of Redmonds appalling behaviour. (Remember "A Laymans Outrage"?)
If you're going to recommend someone tries Linux, particularly on a laptop, you MUST check the hardware list over first in order to avoid weeks like the one you describe or warn the owner of the possibility of getting stuck in a hopeless "no driver Cul-de-Sac". (You try setting up any laptop with only a Windows CD and tell me how many devices would "work out of the box"). A simple check in advance would probably have indicated wireless trouble approaching and you could have bought/recommended a USB dongle or PCMCIA card.
You passed up a TV appearance talking about Linux over this???? That was a bad decision! Would it not be better to appear and take the opportunity to fire off a broadside or two in the direction of Redmond?
You know full well why the wireless didn't work and it has NOTHING to do with Linux being unready. It's because Microsoft have sorely rigged the market place in favour of themselves. This in no way makes Linux unfit or unready. It merely makes it the unwitting victim of Redmonds appalling behaviour. (Remember "A Laymans Outrage"?)
If you're going to recommend someone tries Linux, particularly on a laptop, you MUST check the hardware list over first in order to avoid weeks like the one you describe or warn the owner of the possibility of getting stuck in a hopeless "no driver Cul-de-Sac". (You try setting up any laptop with only a Windows CD and tell me how many devices would "work out of the box"). A simple check in advance would probably have indicated wireless trouble approaching and you could have bought/recommended a USB dongle or PCMCIA card.
You passed up a TV appearance talking about Linux over this???? That was a bad decision! Would it not be better to appear and take the opportunity to fire off a broadside or two in the direction of Redmond?
I ran W2K for a long time, and, ran into a lot of frustrating hardware problems. Some of them were eventually resolved, and, some just required new equipment. My experience with Linux has actually been about the same, but, I feel much more confidant that sooner or later their will be a driver for any given piece of hardware. To date all of the problematic stuff has a Linux solution. Lately the Linux drivers are coming in almost as fast as anything for Windows.
Get your daughter an Intel PRO/Wireless 2200BG/2915ABG miniPCI card for her laptop.
This open source driver is professionally written by Intel and works absolutely perfectly under Linux. Seen it with my own two eyes.
http://ipw2200.sourceforge.net
Now please stop ranting totally unjustified falsehoods.
This open source driver is professionally written by Intel and works absolutely perfectly under Linux. Seen it with my own two eyes.
http://ipw2200.sourceforge.net
Now please stop ranting totally unjustified falsehoods.
I feel much more confidant that sooner or later their will be a driver for any given piece of hardware......
As I do. My intent was never to blame Linux. Sure the hardware folks hold all culpability here, I should have made that more clear.
Now please stop ranting totally unjustified falsehoods.....
If this wondercard of yours works, then it was far from unjustified. Obviously you were not anywhere near the places we were in our 5 day trudge or this "rant" would have never been written. Why don't you write a "rant" yourself about this miracle card. That way google will pick it up and everyones problems will be solved. Thanks for the tip.
No Sal...I don't believe it is an over reaction. A new user does not see the Linux Picture. She sees one computer in front of her that does not do what she wants it to do with Linux and it does it well with XP. She has a long way to go before she comes close to "understanding". I realize the manufacturers have failed...on both sides and MS IS to blame for much of it. that does not change the facts. If I go now with this psa for pclinuxos and even 10 percent of the people who try it are having problems just with wireless, the forums will be swamped. People will just walk away from it with a crappy taste in their mouths and anyone asking them about linux in the future will receive a lambasting. It's not far away Sal...the opportunity isn't gone...just postponed.
helios
As I do. My intent was never to blame Linux. Sure the hardware folks hold all culpability here, I should have made that more clear.
Now please stop ranting totally unjustified falsehoods.....
If this wondercard of yours works, then it was far from unjustified. Obviously you were not anywhere near the places we were in our 5 day trudge or this "rant" would have never been written. Why don't you write a "rant" yourself about this miracle card. That way google will pick it up and everyones problems will be solved. Thanks for the tip.
No Sal...I don't believe it is an over reaction. A new user does not see the Linux Picture. She sees one computer in front of her that does not do what she wants it to do with Linux and it does it well with XP. She has a long way to go before she comes close to "understanding". I realize the manufacturers have failed...on both sides and MS IS to blame for much of it. that does not change the facts. If I go now with this psa for pclinuxos and even 10 percent of the people who try it are having problems just with wireless, the forums will be swamped. People will just walk away from it with a crappy taste in their mouths and anyone asking them about linux in the future will receive a lambasting. It's not far away Sal...the opportunity isn't gone...just postponed.
helios
I agree with salparadise: "Would it not be better to appear and take the opportunity to fire off a broadside or two in the direction of Redmond?"
The core problem here is the need for a closed source driver, perpetuated by the way Windows is marketed. Unfortunately, most people see it as a problem with Linux and not Microsoft, regardless of the source of the issue and will refuse to listen to any message otherwise.
The issue with the scanner drivers noted above is similar: Many people have experienced this problem and don't like it at all. If the general public could be made to understand that if their systems were running Open Source Software, they would not be in this bind and could use their old gadgets until they wore out and not until the manufacturer loses interest in driver support, then a great leap would be made in promoting Open Source Software to the general public.
If you have the talent and can formulate a message for TV or any other media that can describe the problems and the consequences with Redmond's appalling marketing practices in nonpolemic, nonthreatening, and nonzealous terms that everyone can understand, please go ahead and do so and do it over and over again in as many venues as possible.
Buying hardware from companies that actively support Linux helps, too.
The core problem here is the need for a closed source driver, perpetuated by the way Windows is marketed. Unfortunately, most people see it as a problem with Linux and not Microsoft, regardless of the source of the issue and will refuse to listen to any message otherwise.
The issue with the scanner drivers noted above is similar: Many people have experienced this problem and don't like it at all. If the general public could be made to understand that if their systems were running Open Source Software, they would not be in this bind and could use their old gadgets until they wore out and not until the manufacturer loses interest in driver support, then a great leap would be made in promoting Open Source Software to the general public.
If you have the talent and can formulate a message for TV or any other media that can describe the problems and the consequences with Redmond's appalling marketing practices in nonpolemic, nonthreatening, and nonzealous terms that everyone can understand, please go ahead and do so and do it over and over again in as many venues as possible.
Buying hardware from companies that actively support Linux helps, too.
helios,
Was it an amd64 laptop? Were you using a 64-bit version of Linux? Were you using the 32-bit Windows driver with Ndiswrapper?
-Sean
Was it an amd64 laptop? Were you using a 64-bit version of Linux? Were you using the 32-bit Windows driver with Ndiswrapper?
-Sean
h
Contact that TV station and tell them you want to do that PSA right now!
Why?! Because of this very issue. Not the wireless card thingy, (that is merely an example, of which there are many, scanners, printers, apps, devs...pick your flavor) The issue is Freedom. The freedom to pick and choose how we want to use our own equipment. Ah, there's the rub. It is not our equipment, at least not from the industry point of view. The industry dictates the adoption, installation, development and eventual obsolesence of the majority of the hardware and software we use today. And we all know that the industry has the consumers best interests in mind when developing new technology.
Open Source/Linux helps consumers to take control of their PC, at least on the software side of the equation. Users have the ability to choose. The industry doesn't like it when the consumers make their own software choices. So they force the issue and use hardware as the wedge, since they still overwhelmingly control hardware development. Your hardware/driver issue proves this to be true, your daughter had to choose XP because it was the only choice even though she wanted another.
Sal has the same issue with MS because he can't use his scanners w/ the "new" Windows. It's still about control and choices. And I agree with Sal, don't pass up an opportunity to broadcast a positive message about Linux (not dissing MS). Because the message should be about Freedom of Choice! You can mention other examples of the industry (ODF in MA and tiered Internet proposed by SBC) trying to subvert choice and impose control.
h, I like what you write. I think the LInux movement NEEDS more helios' in the world! Don't give up opportunities to sing out because the industry beat you down. It is times like these that you need to go the window (no pun intended) and scream out, "I am NOT going to take it any longer!"
mpm
Contact that TV station and tell them you want to do that PSA right now!
Why?! Because of this very issue. Not the wireless card thingy, (that is merely an example, of which there are many, scanners, printers, apps, devs...pick your flavor) The issue is Freedom. The freedom to pick and choose how we want to use our own equipment. Ah, there's the rub. It is not our equipment, at least not from the industry point of view. The industry dictates the adoption, installation, development and eventual obsolesence of the majority of the hardware and software we use today. And we all know that the industry has the consumers best interests in mind when developing new technology.
Open Source/Linux helps consumers to take control of their PC, at least on the software side of the equation. Users have the ability to choose. The industry doesn't like it when the consumers make their own software choices. So they force the issue and use hardware as the wedge, since they still overwhelmingly control hardware development. Your hardware/driver issue proves this to be true, your daughter had to choose XP because it was the only choice even though she wanted another.
Sal has the same issue with MS because he can't use his scanners w/ the "new" Windows. It's still about control and choices. And I agree with Sal, don't pass up an opportunity to broadcast a positive message about Linux (not dissing MS). Because the message should be about Freedom of Choice! You can mention other examples of the industry (ODF in MA and tiered Internet proposed by SBC) trying to subvert choice and impose control.
h, I like what you write. I think the LInux movement NEEDS more helios' in the world! Don't give up opportunities to sing out because the industry beat you down. It is times like these that you need to go the window (no pun intended) and scream out, "I am NOT going to take it any longer!"
mpm
How hard is it to buy a pcmcia card that works and plug it in.
There are plenty of things that don't work with "pick your OS"
To not use something anywhere because it doesn't work on one piece of hardware is quite silly.
There are plenty of things that don't work with "pick your OS"
To not use something anywhere because it doesn't work on one piece of hardware is quite silly.
Helios,
I did not realize that you were the author of this article. If I have know, I would have blasted you because you should have known better than to blame Linux for not supporting the hardware especially since I know you are one of our own. I understand you didn't mean that and I can understand your frustration. I have very similar situation. My daughter has a Dell laptop with wireless card. She wanted to run Linux because of all the problems she had with XP. So far she had to re-install Windows 3 times for various reason. All of them were due to software problems during upgrades and updates, driver issues and virus and insecurities. I used Mepis, PCLinuxOS, Knoppix and Suse Linux LiveCDs to test the hardware. The issue was not mainly related to the wireless not working only, since she had a NIC to use for networking, but the music download software like **** and such not being available for Linux. My daughter kept asking me to dual boot but I insisted on either Linux or nothing. I kind figured that, when she gets really desperate and wants Linux, she will go for it for good. She has seen and used Linux on her brother's PC and she loved it, but was not ready to make a total move yet. Too me, that was OK and I knew one day she will make the total move. She is close but didn't yet.
My point is, Linux has so many capabilities and so much better features than Windows that will eventually, make people abandon Windows for good. Yes Linux is not perfect, and the few things that it can't offer now because of vendor laziness will disappear and forgoten.
I know you are going through some unpleasant times, but I also know that you didn't lose faith, but try not to unknowingly help MS in their constant effort to discredit Linux and FOSS. I hope you are feeling better and will have healthy happy new year.
I did not realize that you were the author of this article. If I have know, I would have blasted you because you should have known better than to blame Linux for not supporting the hardware especially since I know you are one of our own. I understand you didn't mean that and I can understand your frustration. I have very similar situation. My daughter has a Dell laptop with wireless card. She wanted to run Linux because of all the problems she had with XP. So far she had to re-install Windows 3 times for various reason. All of them were due to software problems during upgrades and updates, driver issues and virus and insecurities. I used Mepis, PCLinuxOS, Knoppix and Suse Linux LiveCDs to test the hardware. The issue was not mainly related to the wireless not working only, since she had a NIC to use for networking, but the music download software like **** and such not being available for Linux. My daughter kept asking me to dual boot but I insisted on either Linux or nothing. I kind figured that, when she gets really desperate and wants Linux, she will go for it for good. She has seen and used Linux on her brother's PC and she loved it, but was not ready to make a total move yet. Too me, that was OK and I knew one day she will make the total move. She is close but didn't yet.
My point is, Linux has so many capabilities and so much better features than Windows that will eventually, make people abandon Windows for good. Yes Linux is not perfect, and the few things that it can't offer now because of vendor laziness will disappear and forgoten.
I know you are going through some unpleasant times, but I also know that you didn't lose faith, but try not to unknowingly help MS in their constant effort to discredit Linux and FOSS. I hope you are feeling better and will have healthy happy new year.
Thanks Abe...We will see what we can do about the PSA 2nd week of January.
My ipw2200 wireless is unreliable in XP, solid in Linux
So obviously now is not the time to switch to XP?
LOL...too late for that, the koolaid has already been swilled.
good point
good point
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