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GNU/Linux -- Like No Other Hotrod, Ever
The Starting Line
To gain a bit of perspective on the miraculous acceleration of Linux,
the kernel, and GNU/Linux, the operating system, note that
Microsoft began in
1975 and
drags in billions of dollars a year to support
development. GNU started in 1984,
as Richard Stallman was allowed to use MIT facilities to start work
on a free operating system. GNU was
supported in the beginning by the sale of magnetic tapes containing
Emacs. The X Window
System "was created in the mid-1980s at the Massachusetts
Institute of Technology."
Engine and controls
Tools, Frame and Body
Kit or Complete
Customize!
Move over, road hog
You
can have the world's finest for next to nothing and a world of
people
to help you to tailor it to fit just you. It's secure, stable and
second to none. See some
really clean,
beautiful vistas instead of
dirty, damaging ones. Try riding in a custom vehicle that does
what you tell it to do. Try LInux.
[* Thanks,
jimf, for
sharing the
screenshot and those original Tux hotrod drawings. GIMP is good
enough to let me drop Larry Ewing's Tux behind Cboy's Rat, but it
can't turn me into an artist. Thanks also for your editorial 'patch'.
BTW, I did save the image where you had your Tux aiming a torch at
Cboy's carb. It's a good reminder that, like any really good tool,
Linux won't stop you from using the tool in a dangerous way.] Links used:
|
LXer Feature: 04-Aug-2006 
|
|
Comments (96)
And Windows supports more devices, period.
71 earlier comments in the full thread.
I only know that, of the hardware devices I have, my sound card isn't fully supported, my palm device isn't fully supported.
My video card seems to be fully supported, but not "out of the box".
That last one doesn't bother me a bit, but you seem hung up on "out of the box" so I throw it in.
If your standard is that the machine boots, fine. Most people who buy equipment, however, want and expect it to work, and to work fully.
You are welcome to your obstinate delusions. They serve no purpose, however, but to make you less effective as an advocate.
People will actually do more than we give them credit for if it's reasonable to do and they understand why. They are far less forgiving if you are not straight with them.
The bottom line for people out in the real world: Will my stuff work or not?
I would add Winmodems to that list. I have a GNU/Linux laptop that has a winmodem in it. I was going to loan it to a friend while his EXPEE computer was in for repair. Unfortunately, he only has dialup so that didn't work.
*Most* things will work. A very few will not. This is grouch's contention. For the most part I agree. The problem is if great numbers of computers are shipped with hardware configurations that, under GNU/Linux, will not work, work only partially or work only with binary blobs. For any user to sort that out is frustrating. A non-tech fearful new user will probably not want to continue with the experience.
Don K.
You certainly hit the nail on the head there. Kudos.
Linux: The OS for people who have enough money.
This has been very enlightening, in a sad, sick kind of way.
Grouch, you are always there to point out when I make a mistake.
Correction: "Linux: The OS for people tetering on the edge of death."
How could I possibly put enough smileys in to cover for that one? I don't think I can. I'll have to count upon Grouch's good judgement.
I think he has a bit more of that than we sometimes give him credit for. :-)
I don't know to whom you were directing this comment:
>So, in summary, it's perfectly alright to lie, so long as you're doing it to keep people using MS Windows.
But no, as I said before:
> People will actually do more than we give them credit for if it's reasonable to do and they understand why. They are far less forgiving if you are not straight with them.
Lying is about the worst thing you can do, because, at some point, such as somebody discovering their stuffr won't work they way they paid for and expect it to, you will be caught. Once caught in a lie, your credibility is shot.
Much better to be straight about expectations, to offer suggestions, alternatives, etc.
My video card seems to be fully supported, but not "out of the box".
That last one doesn't bother me a bit, but you seem hung up on "out of the box" so I throw it in.
If your standard is that the machine boots, fine. Most people who buy equipment, however, want and expect it to work, and to work fully.
You are welcome to your obstinate delusions. They serve no purpose, however, but to make you less effective as an advocate.
People will actually do more than we give them credit for if it's reasonable to do and they understand why. They are far less forgiving if you are not straight with them.
The bottom line for people out in the real world: Will my stuff work or not?" ---snip---
Windows does not support these devices "out of the box" either, so what's your point? To get your sound, video, palm, printer, etc, working under Windows, you need that MANUFACTURER to support that device, NOT Windows.
As it has been said many times, Microsoft/Windows DOES NOT SUPPORT these devices, the people who MAKE THE DEVICES are the ones who SUPPORT them, and what OS they decide to write their drivers for are not a function of which is easier to support, or which is better, but rather a function of which is more profitable. Since Windows holds a 95% monopoly share of the desktop market, most device manufacturers choose to write their code for Windows. This is not something Linux developers have control over nor is it appropriate to assume or to assert that they are some how responsible for forcing manufacturers to provide such support.
Linux, out of the box, provides an IMMENSE amount of device support, far outweighing that of Windows. Most devices in Linux work out of the box without ever needing to download a driver or pop in a CD.
No-one here is denying that more manufacturers support Linux. However, as this is a handicap for Linux, it is not one that is unreasonable. Why is it so unreasonable to expect a user to verify a device works with whatever system they have? If you own a Mac, you make sure it's supported on MacOS before you buy it, if you have Windows, you make sure it will work on Windows. I don't understand why we have people who blindly make a purchase for devices, plug them into their Linux box, and are then shocked and dismayed when it doesn't work. Did you CHECK first?
- On my system, wifi works "out of the box", because I bought a wifi card that Linux supports. - 3D graphics on my ATI card works out of the box, again, because I checked. Nope, I'm not using the proprietary drivers, the open source drivers support the ATI Radeon 9200 series of cards, which was a cheap card that performs well for the games I play. - Sound works out of the box - My gigabit ethernet works out of the box
This exact same system, running Windows, would need a driver for each of these devices to be supplied seperately, and there is no warranty that one device driver may not interfere with another. Each driver inserts code into the Windows kernel, which is a very sacred place for any OS. Bugs at the kernel level are generally not trappable, not recoverable, and often result in data loss. This is not a place where I would think that you would want to trust some vendor to just hand you some binary driver with no source code to audit to just insert into your OS kernel and 'hope for the best'.
Or maybe you do, but I prefer the Linux way.
Bottom line is that Linux supports WAY more devices out of the box. More manufacturers 'support' Windows, but how many of them are going to give you the source code to their Windows drivers so you can verify their security, and/or fix bugs/security holes in them in the event that the manufacturer fails to do so in a timely manner? That's what I thought.
-Jeremy
>>So, in summary, it's perfectly alright to lie, so long as you're doing it to keep people using MS Windows."
I did not want to comment again, but this needs to be cleared up: That was not directed at any person who has commented in this thread. No accusation of lying by any person who has commented in this thread was intended by that statement.
Thank you for bringing that ambiguity to my attention, dinotrac. If I ever feel the need to accuse anyone of lying, I'll name names and make sure they know mine and where to reach me.
That comment was referring to the long-running FUD campaigns of Microsoft, which has resulted in some of the myths and lies referred to in Kroah-Hartman's presentation. A number of their deliberate deceptions, a.k.a. lies, have been documented in court cases.
For a sampling of news showing the general pattern, see also:
2001 http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5007 2005 http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/55774 http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/techbeat/archives/200... 2006 http://linux.sys-con.com/read/209172.htm (Note this is by Jon Walker, of Versora, Inc., who was interviewed in http://lxer.com/module/newswire/lf/view/65558/ ) http://www-03.ibm.com/developerworks/blogs/page/AntonySatyad...
On the other hand, as long as you're not talking about a Lexmark (and maybe a few other manufacturers), chances are, you'll find pretty darned good support under GNU/Linux. Granted, my experience with printers is fairly limited - I cannot just run out and buy new printers every six months. Still, getting printers to work under Windows has long been a sore spot for many users. Maybe it has improved some, but I honestly don't know.
The printing situation in Linux is not as easy as I would like, but TONS better than it was five years ago.
HP support, in particular, has improved greatly, though I alway reccomend Epson just because good Epson drivers have been available forever for both printers and scanners.
Many Kudos to the good folks at the project formerly know as gimp-print, now known as Gutenprint.
Under which system? That was not part of the Windows setup routine for my HP printer. That required a special dance by a medicine man from a particular indian tribe on a set day of the month. Iirc, I had to plug in the printer to the wall, then pop in the driver CD, then plug the usb cable into the printer and the computer, then wait for the dialog box to pop up and follow the steps from there. And the lucky rabbit's foot has to be in the right hip pocket, not the left front pocket. Plus I had to hold my tongue just so.
Literally, the instructions said to follow the setup routine e-x-a-c-t-l-y. The problem was that, if you did goof, you were up the creek without a paddle. When I got WinXP, I followed the same routine, fearing I would never be able to fix the driver problem if it occurred again. From what NoDough told me, I would have to be an expert on the Windows registry just to find the particular entry that needed to be dealt with.
All I know is that I refuse to consider Windows as somehow more user-friendly, or providing better hardware support than GNU/Linux, simply because people are used to certain applications or because a few devices might have better support, or seem easier to configure. My experience shows the opposite to be true.
Quoting:Under which system?
Linux, of course. It never occurred to me that anyone one would think that I was dispensing tips on hardware selection for Windows, here.
Go ahead, Don. Make my day. Insult me some more. ;-)
Even Lexmark usb has support under Linux. Now you only got to deal with lousy QC and of course the ink pig syndrome.
Gotta love Lexmark!
I've got to point out that Windows "plug-n-play" with any hardware is hardly flawless, and in fact can become a major pita. I've seen it go into an endless loop and want to reinstall the device ever time you reboot... More like 'plug and plug'. That's one reason why I'm very leery when I see Linux try to emulate that. Better some times to do it manually.
I thought you were referring to GNU/Linux, but wasn't sure since I had questioned whether printer support in Windows had improved any in the last few years. As for insulting you some more, don't make me whip out my Ballmer & McBride remarks. ;-)
jimf: > Even Lexmark usb has support under Linux. Now you only got to deal with lousy QC and of course the ink pig syndrome.
Yeah, but I still had problems with a Lexmark donated to our ministry. It might be supported now - I should try again. I just find their bottom page margin (0.78 or something) aggravating as I don't know what.
Hardware Problems Led Me To GNU/Linux
The fact is, at least locally, the single biggest complaint I here from Windows users - other than maybe malware - is printers not working properly. I suspect the problem is not limited to the Charlotte, North Carolina area either. People have problems getting printers installed and configured on their Windows boxes, and even calling their favorite Windows expert frequently just changes the recipient of the headache.
In my case, the printer driver was incorrectly installed during the installation routine, either due to a bug in the install program or just because I didn't hold my tongue just right. That led to a re-installation of Windows - meaning install DOS 6.22/Windows 3.11 from diskettes, and then re-install the Win98 upgrade.
With my CD burner, the primary pain point was the included CD burning software. The burner software was just fine until I migrated to Windows XP. I did a fresh install of the full edition of WinXP. When I went to install the CD burner software, I discovered that I would now have to pay $80 to do so, since the 'Lite' version's install routine refused to re-install after a certain date. I wound up with a CD burner I couldn't use, even though I had paid for it.
Getting CD burning to work under SUSE Linux 8.0 Pro took some doing, since all of the how-tos talked about command-line tools, and I couldn't initially figure out to use X-CDRoast. I finally figured that out, and never looked back. My printer was successfully detected and configured. In fact, as of SUSE 9.2, I haven't even had to select the driver - that is handled automatically during the installation.
For me, the printer aggravation was simply a fact of life under Windows. I have swapped jokes with numerous WIndows technicians and users about printers and Windows. The CD burning software was what really prompted me to use GNU/Linux more, and eventually to ditch Windows altogether. So I think that saying Windows supports more hardware, simply because some devices do - or seem to - work better, is silly.
Even if you manage to get a device working, you may find yourself with limited support, driver conflicts and other issues that can drive a person out of their mind. A co-worker recently bought a Dell Laptop with a DVD player in it. He can't watch movies on the DVD player. It pretends to start up, but doesn't actually do anything. The theory seems to be that he has to register the product key before he can actually watch the videos. He couldn't do that before Friday, so I'll get an update Monday to know what's going on.
VLC is available for Windows. You might want to recommend it to him.
For burning distributions and Baen ISOs, I just use cdrecord. One line, a few words, and it's all over.
Mr Dixon: MPlayer is available everywhere, too.
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Things were simpler then. We knew that we weren't as good with hardware support.
We didn't have disagreements like this one.
Now, there are plenty of disagreements like this one.
Overconfidence is the primary ingredient in the recipe for distruction.
Kinda like cayenne peper is for chili.
Best to err on the side of caution.