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Ubuntu chief decries interest rate cut
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Comments (33)
13 earlier comments in the full thread.
>>...it's weird to see a South African businessman commenting about it."
Not at all weird, this thinking in terms of countries is so 500 years ago! Anyone from anywhere can and should speak to any issue that could effect them. And the usOFa is still big enough that if it borkes the whole economy at home, well for sure most other countries will be circling the drain just like us gringos.
>>"South African businessman" The operative word there is "businessman". Business, money commerce, ECONOMY. Better him with his track record than the Colonel here who has just run off the tracks money wise.
Not at all weird, this thinking in terms of countries is so 500 years ago! Anyone from anywhere can and should speak to any issue that could effect them. And the usOFa is still big enough that if it borkes the whole economy at home, well for sure most other countries will be circling the drain just like us gringos.
>>"South African businessman" The operative word there is "businessman". Business, money commerce, ECONOMY. Better him with his track record than the Colonel here who has just run off the tracks money wise.
This current situation can be tracked back further than the Iraq war, much further. It may be a factor but not the driving force. One of the major instabilities right now was in fact caused by the collapse of the tech bubble, which forced the fed into one of it's infamous bail outs. In slashing interest rates then and a weak housing market at the same time was the beginning of the current "housing bubble". Which in turn was exacerbated by 2 factors, poor lending practices by the banking and financial industries, and insane property speculation. We have been due for a market correction since well before 9/11, however since then the markets and the fed have been playing touchy feely. Every time the market seems a little shaky the fed props it up making the inevitable of a major and painful market correction even worse.
Some can blame the cost of gas and associated assumptions on the problem, however if you ask any economist, when the correction happens (not if), the price of both oil and gas will fall as well.
Some can blame the cost of gas and associated assumptions on the problem, however if you ask any economist, when the correction happens (not if), the price of both oil and gas will fall as well.
The move by the Fed was classical Keynesian manipulation. They are afraid of fear.
Remember FDR: "We have nothing to fear except fear itself"
There is always a strong psychological component to markets and this can drive large and sometimes catastrophic over-corrections of speculative bubbles.
The crash of 1929 (which Keynes cut his teeth on) was like this and many classical economists at the time urged non-intervention which delayed ultimate recovery.
So my view is that Shuttleworth is being rather too judgmental of the Fed.
Remember FDR: "We have nothing to fear except fear itself"
There is always a strong psychological component to markets and this can drive large and sometimes catastrophic over-corrections of speculative bubbles.
The crash of 1929 (which Keynes cut his teeth on) was like this and many classical economists at the time urged non-intervention which delayed ultimate recovery.
So my view is that Shuttleworth is being rather too judgmental of the Fed.
> The crash of 1929 (which Keynes cut his teeth on) was like this and many classical economists at the time urged non-intervention which delayed ultimate recovery.
Bwahahaha! Non-intervention? The disaster was _caused_ by intervention, and the greater the intervention the worse it got.
There was in fact the beginnings of a recovery in 1936 after the Supreme Court ruled many of FDRs massive interventions unconstitutional, but 1937 things got worse again because FDR used the threat to stack the Court with his own people to prevent many of the same programs from being declared unconstitutional again.
The myth of "non-intervention" was created by Keynes and the other backers of FDR in order to discredit Hoover, while simply extending and expanding the same programs that Hoover had implemented (Smoot-Hawly tarriff anyone?) in the first place.
> There is always a strong psychological component to markets and this can drive large and sometimes catastrophic over-corrections of speculative bubbles. Bubbles created in the first place by making credit cheaper than it would otherwise be, causing mal-investment and a "bubble", which has a crash when those mal-investments come due. The timing and degree certainly have emotional elements, but the bubbles/crashes themselves are caused by fiscal policies.
Once a country goes on a fiat currency, the minor recessions during a commodity money standard pale in comparison. It took the creation of the Fed and a substantial portion of the world going off the gold standard before there could be such a thing as a world-wide "Great Depression".
There was in fact the beginnings of a recovery in 1936 after the Supreme Court ruled many of FDRs massive interventions unconstitutional, but 1937 things got worse again because FDR used the threat to stack the Court with his own people to prevent many of the same programs from being declared unconstitutional again.
The myth of "non-intervention" was created by Keynes and the other backers of FDR in order to discredit Hoover, while simply extending and expanding the same programs that Hoover had implemented (Smoot-Hawly tarriff anyone?) in the first place.
> There is always a strong psychological component to markets and this can drive large and sometimes catastrophic over-corrections of speculative bubbles. Bubbles created in the first place by making credit cheaper than it would otherwise be, causing mal-investment and a "bubble", which has a crash when those mal-investments come due. The timing and degree certainly have emotional elements, but the bubbles/crashes themselves are caused by fiscal policies.
Once a country goes on a fiat currency, the minor recessions during a commodity money standard pale in comparison. It took the creation of the Fed and a substantial portion of the world going off the gold standard before there could be such a thing as a world-wide "Great Depression".
This is WAY outside the TOS and I am unsure how to bring it back inside of it. I do not want to just delete it without notice, but what can be done to reign the conversation in?
> but what can be done to reign the conversation in?
So, since the article is about economics, and an attack upon interventionist fiscal policies, what's left?
Can we only talk about Shuttleworth?
Gee, he has a long last name. Never tried his Ubuntu. Ok, I'm out of material.
So, since the article is about economics, and an attack upon interventionist fiscal policies, what's left?
Can we only talk about Shuttleworth?
Gee, he has a long last name. Never tried his Ubuntu. Ok, I'm out of material.
Lets face it, Scott, the thread is actually on topic with the article.
Sometimes you're screwed, sometimes you're royally screwed.
Sometimes you're screwed, sometimes you're royally screwed.
Here's the thing. If the U.S. economy completely tanks, it will affect the entire world, so one shouldn't be surprised when Shuttleworth comments on the Fed cutting interest rates in the first place. This affects the value of the dollar on the world wide market.
"For anyone interested in economics, I'd recommend The Creature from Jekyll Island by Edward Griffin.Lots of good stuff to keep you awake at night."
Bullseye! Fiat currencies are debt-driven. The problem with a fiat system such as the Federal Reserve is that the assumption is made that the amount of debt won't be too high and can always be accounted for to the point that the economy stays alive.
Sure, Shuttleworth may appear to be snooty because he was able to afford a ride in outer space. However, there is a question that needs to be asked: How many of these so called "experts" on TV millionaires themselves? Probably not very many. You see, the wealthy actually know how to invest. They are the true experts on retaining wealth in most circumstances, and I would listen to a millionaire before listening to Bernake.
"For anyone interested in economics, I'd recommend The Creature from Jekyll Island by Edward Griffin.Lots of good stuff to keep you awake at night."
Bullseye! Fiat currencies are debt-driven. The problem with a fiat system such as the Federal Reserve is that the assumption is made that the amount of debt won't be too high and can always be accounted for to the point that the economy stays alive.
Sure, Shuttleworth may appear to be snooty because he was able to afford a ride in outer space. However, there is a question that needs to be asked: How many of these so called "experts" on TV millionaires themselves? Probably not very many. You see, the wealthy actually know how to invest. They are the true experts on retaining wealth in most circumstances, and I would listen to a millionaire before listening to Bernake.
So Bob, what exactly is a shuttle worth?
Your funny,
Like many I wonder why Mark of all people is making a comment on this, like this. What's his interest in this?
edit: Your right dino, sometimes your just screwed.. LOL!!
Like many I wonder why Mark of all people is making a comment on this, like this. What's his interest in this?
edit: Your right dino, sometimes your just screwed.. LOL!!
Quoting:it's weird to see a South African businessman commenting about it
Maybe... But...
Quoting:After going to school at Diocesan College, Shuttleworth obtained a Business Science degree in Finance and Information Systems at the University of Cape Town.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Shuttleworth
I *think* a "Business Science degree in Finance" makes him kinda competent in this field... But maybe the important part is "South African" :)
Quoting:What's his interest in this?
Imagine you're rich like him. Any fluctuation in the market swing your fortune by millions. Doesn't that make you interested in the state of affairs?
Quoting:Shuttleworth obtained a Business Science degree in Finance
OK, here's my view; it's very simple (one of my shorter posts):
American people buy things they can't afford, they can't pay it back, and they're in trouble. They can't lend more money, because they are not creditworthy. They make the rest of the world believe this is a problem for them too, and to end this problem, their government lends more money to give to the Americans who couldn't pay back their debts. Now the government can't pay back its debts either, and the situation becomes worse. However, the US-stock-indexes still go up so all looks fine, and therefore American people keep continue to buy things they can't afford.
Forget about the war, oil and other crappy excuses, this is just the way it is, and you don't have to study Finance to understand it. Back on topic: Shuttleworth is right.
> what exactly is a shuttle worth?
As a launch platform, it sucks. Low earth orbit is _boring_. The only mission yet that actually needed humans was to refit the Hubble. That's one.
As a propaganda tool, it's somewhat valuable, but with the European and Japanese, soon Chinese, launch capabilities, it's lifetime in that regard is sorely limited.
As a way of blocking private space efforts, it's invaluable.
> American people buy things they can't afford, they can't pay it back, and they're in trouble. They can't lend more money, because they are not creditworthy.
Indeed, this is part and parcel of the so-called "business cycle". It's not limited to businesses, especially since it's been building upon itself for nearly a century of overly-easy credit. Having artificially low interest rates changes the incentives of spending now verses spending later. Same with individuals, and then add in the awareness that if we don't spend the money today it will be worth less tomorrow, then it becomes a "rational" choice to spend as quickly as possible.
Don't disregard how the effects of such things as the FDIC has warped the investment/savings over the entire country. Why invest wisely when any losses are covered regardless of why the loss occurs?
As a launch platform, it sucks. Low earth orbit is _boring_. The only mission yet that actually needed humans was to refit the Hubble. That's one.
As a propaganda tool, it's somewhat valuable, but with the European and Japanese, soon Chinese, launch capabilities, it's lifetime in that regard is sorely limited.
As a way of blocking private space efforts, it's invaluable.
> American people buy things they can't afford, they can't pay it back, and they're in trouble. They can't lend more money, because they are not creditworthy.
Indeed, this is part and parcel of the so-called "business cycle". It's not limited to businesses, especially since it's been building upon itself for nearly a century of overly-easy credit. Having artificially low interest rates changes the incentives of spending now verses spending later. Same with individuals, and then add in the awareness that if we don't spend the money today it will be worth less tomorrow, then it becomes a "rational" choice to spend as quickly as possible.
Don't disregard how the effects of such things as the FDIC has warped the investment/savings over the entire country. Why invest wisely when any losses are covered regardless of why the loss occurs?
Quoting:Low earth orbit is _boring_.
Could be. But when I win the lottery (or prices come down enough) you bet I am going up there. Whether it's with SpaceShipTwo, SpaceShipSix, that japaneese space hotel or a Russian ICBM I don't care :-)
Russian ICBM's are notorious for their rough landings.
Good thing then that the ICBM is only for going up. Going down would be with a Sojuz
Oh! Cute conspiracy theory I heard: Mir was going to be purchased privately, so they had to knock it down.
I doubt that very much. If Russia could have sold it, it would have. It was old, too expensive to maintain and they really needed the money.
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And while we're at it, is Dell planning to support the upcoming Ubuntu 8.04 LTS release, or will it stick with 7.10 for awhile?