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Story: Linux Today defends display of new Microsoft adsTotal Replies: 13
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Nov 20, 2004
7:59 AM EDT
I'm not about to visit a site I gave up on for the very reason they are moaning. They probably use the usual rants.

You may claim that advertising is free speech and you can advertise what you want where you want. However if you advertise inappropriately then I'm not going to visit. That is me exercising my freedom. Don't moan about it, you choose to accept inappropriate adds, I choose not to visit.

You don't advertise porn sites in National Geographic, not because you can't, but because the readership does not want porn ads in a magazine about geography.

Just because you can doesn't mean you should. It may make you money, but that does not mean you have any right to force anything of this nature on me.

If you have been fair warned (and you have) about the fact that a part of your readership objects, and you persist in those activities then what do you expect?

You may claim that you are taking money from the 'otherside' and using it to promote the view of Linux users. This is pure, unadulterated hogswash. What you are doing is making it impossible for people to switch. If the first thing they see is an ad for the wrong product, how does that help FOSS, and in what way? Let us be frank here, most linux news sites are to promote linux use, and that increase occurs by convincing people that we can offer a superior product. We can, we know it, but if they are bombarded with ads for M$ then they are never going to break that ridiculous apron string. People run under the misguided belief that M$ is ubiquitous. They are very popular amongst those of a lower capability, true, but never ubiquitous. You are assisting them in the propaganda war.

One should question your motivations. Personally I see sites that take these ads as Fith Columns, or at least misguided supporters, however unwittingly, of those groups. I cannot trust you or your site. If you took Sun ads, then there is room for manouver. Sun does not require a monopoly to make money. The company is not betting everything on being able to negotiate with that monopoly, or rather the perception of it being an unsurmountable monopoly. Also Sun offers some open source products, and are, on and off, a supporter of Linux in one form or another.


Nov 20, 2004
9:02 AM EDT
Linuxtoday is a commercial site that mainly seems to sell Linux news. That is why they don't care what ads are running, it is about making money.

If it became more profitable to write about potatoes, they would switch in an instance and you'd see ads for Microsoft Spudz on Potatotoday.

Nov 20, 2004
9:33 AM EDT
While I doubt that lxer readers are going to be regulars to linuxtoday, it should be noted that they do not claim to be promoting linux, but just aggregating articles about it. They're not a "friend" of linux, but an entity that clings on to linux.

They can do what they want with their site, and if it means selling out to Microsoft, they can have that money. And I can do what I want too and choose a site like lxer, which has higher standards. (Due to different goals.)

I dislike Microsoft enough on philosophical and ethical grounds, and prefer to get them, their name, their influence, their ads, and their software, out of my life as much as possible.

Nov 20, 2004
9:52 AM EDT
Yupp, I haven't been there for nigh on a year now for the same reason.

If the site is called Linux Today and features misleading. dishonest adverts that claim to show that Linux isn't what it is then what is the site worth? (Apart from being boycotted.)

As for M$, I don't want their lies. their code, their adverts, their OS, their utter lack of ethics or anything else related to them. And I'm tired of hearing that I should accept their behaviour. I don't accept it.

Not only is there an alternative, but it's a better one than M$ can offer me.

Nov 20, 2004
12:33 PM EDT
Some of the readers of Linux Today seem to have the odd notion that the ads are great because Microsoft's money is being used to support a site that promotes Linux. Brian Proffitt is stating very clearly that Linux Today is not in the business of promoting Linux.

The ad in question is so tightly integrated into the site that privoxy and adblock can't do anything about it. It's not a rotating ad, its a permanent fixture. It's (very well) designed to be indistinguishable from actual site content. i.e. for all practical purposes it *is* site content.

So what we have left is a site that states clearly that it is not pro-Linux, whose content is actually pro-Microsoft and whose editor thinks that's all fine and dandy.

So, if you set aside Linux Today's heritage as a pro-Linux site (ala the "Dave Days") and focus on the reality of the present, why do people go there and why is it good that Microsoft is supporting them?

The web/email button campaign for Firefox has been a great boon for Mozilla. Do we need a "Get Linux News!" campaign to help direct people to reputable sites?

--------- Get Firefox! Get Linux News!

Nov 20, 2004
2:18 PM EDT
The gist of the post is "it's not MY decision what ads get run on this site, its JupiterMedia, our owners!"

Personally, I don't care WHOSE fault it is. All I know is that lately the desperation for ad revenue has been resulting in ever more annoying advertisements crowding the page. The amount of actual "content" on the page seems to be about half what it used to be a few years back - the rest is taken up by ads. Including the "Facts" on Windows and Linux ("sponsored by Microsoft" - not "Paid Advertisement"...)

No, I don't think I care any more. JupiterMedia will no doubt not notice fewer people going to the site and will only notice the decreasing "click-through" ad revenue...and seek to increase the advertisements to make up for it. Eventually the advertisements will become so bad that they'll completely choke the site to death. Oh well.

Since LXer started up, I hardly bother with Linux Today any more.

Nov 20, 2004
2:58 PM EDT
I am not being totally facetious about this. But from what I have been reading above on how long so many of you stayed on Linux Today, it is a very bad indication how strong role inertia plays in the computer field. How can we expect a rapid uptake of either Linux or FireFox or indeed other free (as in freedom) and open source software when it took you so long to recognize what trash that site had become.

I have not even had a bookmark for years! Not too long after Dave left I just did not like the trends I saw, hence, I just stopped visiting. While it remained bookmarked for some time I dispensed with that too. Later when I read complaints about the site, I wondered why people were still visiting. Now to read that many that learned of LXer[,] probably before I[.] were still visiting [Linux Today site] - I am just stunned! {Edits within "[...]"}

Along a similar line, I was in a book store today and I saw someone taking interest in one of the Linux journals that were on display. I volunteered that the one he had in hand was trash (Linux Magazine) and pointed to Linux Format (U.K. publication) and Linux Journal as quality publications.

I learned early on that Linux Magazine was not trustworthy, because their reviewers thought that "free" software meant no cost. Later with the market bubble burst they quickly latched on to some MS marketing money. I dropped them fully expecting them to disappear, however, it was not taking the MS cash per se that caused me to leave. If MS wanted to waste its money on the mostly innoculated, why not? It was more my suspicion that this was an outfit that latched onto a trend that they thought would make them rich. Their writers, when I was reading it, though not all were clueless; and those were good at dispensing misinformation.

Nov 20, 2004
4:14 PM EDT
It is a good site to get your consolidated news. I put up with the ad's, but the excuse was too much. Went looking for an alternative, found lxer.

You look pretty good to me.

Nov 20, 2004
4:50 PM EDT
An odd thought just occured to me--I wonder if any LUG's are going to remove "LT" links from their Gnu/Linux news links. I've stopped clicking on linuxinsider links simply because that site seemed to ruffle my feathers every time I visited. But now I've been getting that same kind of feeling about LT. I've visited that site for a few years now as a number 2 source. . . I agree with the other poster that Brian's cop-out doesn't fly with me.

I already registered with lxer, so, I might just change my bookmarks around and make this my permanent number 2 source after (always my primary source).

Change is good ya'know :)

No hard feelings lt. . .

Nov 20, 2004
9:20 PM EDT
After reading the complaints to Brians editorial I followed a link to LXer. This seems like a good site. I am now a signed up member. I will still be visiting LinuxToday but it is good to have an alternative and I will see which one becomes the preferred source of Linux news for me. As for the M$ ad. I didn't mind the M$ ads that just promoted their products, as I saw that was a way for M$ to fund Linux and as someone here said, it's just preaching to the innoculated. But the 'get the facts' campaign is just promoting lies or at least very skewed 'facts' and I think that is over the line of what should be on a real Linux site. It is also presented as official site content with the approval of the sites owners. I believe this is wrong.



Nov 20, 2004
9:50 PM EDT
Welcome, Rob. LXer is a lower volume site than LT, but it is a good solid site. I think of it as the "Real Linux Today" as Dave Whitinger, who runs this site, is the original founder of the "Linux Today" site. Check out, too, if you haven't already. It, also, adheres to a high standard of quality.

Nov 20, 2004
11:09 PM EDT
Interesting. LT ate the links from my post. Let's see if they're willing to pass my second post, which is just as polite, includes the same links, and directly references them in the text.

Nov 21, 2004
4:05 AM EDT
As Cox put it on LT, It's in their right to have whatever ad they want, but it's also our right to go to whatever site we want.. The reason I used to head over to LT is that the posters are very interesting, usually very informed. I would like to see more postings here as they also are informed and intelligent (as oppose to /.).

Nov 21, 2004
6:50 AM EDT
LT's treatment of fairly straightforward HTML has also changed in recent weeks, it seems.

The links I posted are (back?) up in the discussion now, but Brian hasn't said why LT silently switched from being a Linux-news site to a Linux news-site.

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