So...
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| techiem2 Nov 14, 2007 8:09 AM EDT |
1. He's assuming the user will eventually break something (ok, I guess that's logical).
2. He's assuming that it's harder to find a Linux tech (also somewhat logical).
3. He's assuming that a Linux tech will charge more than a "normal" tech (Um....Not so sure on this one, but I guess it's somewhat logical).
Therefore we shouldn't sell Linux computers to new users. ??? So, assuming all of his points are valid, my analysis would be more along the lines of: 1. The user breaks something 2. It takes a bit longer, but the person does find a good local tech with Linux experience. 3. Ok, the tech charges a bit more because of his extra experience/expertise. BUT here's where things get interesting: 4. The tech shows the user what they did wrong, thus avoiding the problem in the future. - not necessarily always the case, depending on the problem, but definitely the ideal, and more likely with Linux techs than "normal" techs. 5. Ideally the tech also points them to the vast online resources for help, thus diminishing the service calls when they have a minor problem. 6. The box doesn't break nearly as often, therefore doesn't need servicing as much, therefore costs less in the long run than the Windows box (which needs to be serviced every now and then just to clean out the spyware/viruses/etc.). Unless the Windows box is setup properly (i.e. non-Admin user) and the user is taught to properly use it (I've done this for a client). But then the box still has to go in for maintenance when the user installs something and finds out it doesn't run as their non-admin user (because we all know that due to MS not enforcing the non-admin user setup, MANY progs just assume they will be run as admin, and need work to get running as a non-admin user) - in which case they either A. Send the box to the tech to get it working properly (I've done this for the same client). or B. Just use the admin user all the time, thus going back to the frequent servicing for spyware. Therefore we shouldn't sell Windows computers to new users, as they cost more initially and cost more to maintain in the long run. |
| bigg Nov 14, 2007 8:44 AM EDT |
This was written by Gundeep Hora. That name will always stick in my mind. Aside from the fact that it's not a common name, he's the guy that suggested Microsoft should acquire Linux. (I'm serious.) If Rob Enderle and Matt Hartley got married and had kids, you'd have Gundeep Hora. The only reason to read anything that guy writes is if you're ready for a good laugh. |
| treb0r Nov 14, 2007 8:54 AM EDT |
Relax - this kind of editorial just underlines how scared the Windows centric world really is. Wal-Mart are selling complete systems for less than the price of a copy of Vista Ultimate. Mr Hora and all the other Windows pundits will do their best to undermine any perceived threat to the ecosystem that has served them so well for a long time. They are starting to realise that the writing is finally on the wall. It's an interesting thought that the plummeting price of computer systems may turn out to be the final nail in the coffin of the traditional Windows business model. After all, it's very hard to levy up to $399 on top of a system that costs only $200. |
| Abe Nov 14, 2007 9:27 AM EDT |
The guts of this article is that, even though the consumer is saving ~$100 with Linux than with Windows, it is still better to go with Windows instead. This guy can't be more wrong. 1. It is much harder to mess up a Linux computer than a computer running Windows simply because the user have to be logged in as root, while with Windows, any user can mess up the computer, at any time without even knowing it until it is too late. 2. User can find all they need on the internet to learn how to manage and maintain their Linux machine. Windows is hit and run kind of thing. 3. It is not hard to find a Linux Tech to help. With Google, forums and vendor support (Everex should), Linux Tech help is a snap. For telephone support, Linux is just as costly as Windows if not cheaper since many Linux techs would furnish support for free. If a Linux Tech is charging more, better find different tech. 4. If worse comes to worse, all user have to do is have a ISO LiveCD of any distro. If can't fix it, it is much easier to re-install Linux from LiveCD than re-installing Windows. Pros for Linux are endless compared to those of Windows. New Linux users will enjoy their learning experience as they use their new system just like they enjoy learning a new game. That is priceless to many. |
| Steven_Rosenber Nov 14, 2007 9:32 AM EDT |
The way you get more Linux techs is to have ... more Linux boxes out there. |
| techiem2 Nov 14, 2007 9:35 AM EDT |
I'm in the process of refining the post to make it an article to post on my blog. |
| tuxchick Nov 14, 2007 10:00 AM EDT |
Bigg, you took the words out of my mouth :) Windows users already can't find competent tech help, so even if the dark picture painted by gunrobmatt comes true, it won't be anything they're not already used to. Whatever competent assistance they're getting now is probably from Linux geeks, so actually they're ahead of the curve. |
| techiem2 Nov 14, 2007 10:48 AM EDT |
Here's the updated/expanded/etc. version if you care. :) http://techiem2.net/index.php?/archives/7-Response-to-Why-Wa... hmm. Now TC is making me wonder how many of the decent techs out there are really Linux geeks to begin with.... |
| DarrenR114 Nov 14, 2007 10:55 AM EDT |
It's obvious that Gundeep Hora has not run into the support problems with Microsoft products that the so very many MS-Windows users have (and that population is much larger than MS would like to admit.) Of course, that could be because most such support that Mr. Hora is writing about has been outsourced to India and he probably has little problem speaking their native language. I've never been very happy with MS tech support. Their tier one is incompetent in most cases, and once you do get to a qualified "engineer" beyond the first layer, it'll take forever to get your solution. At least that's the way I remember it happening for me just 2 short years ago, and that was even *after* the company I worked for paid the big bucks for premium support (the very thing Mr. Hora implies won't happen if everyone just stuck with MS-Windows.) |
| tuxchick Nov 14, 2007 11:06 AM EDT |
a few thoughts: Abe, you're right on all points except price, because it's necessary to also factor in the initial and annual cost of anti-malware software, higher hardware requirements, and productivity software. Depending on what you need, this runs into the thousands easily. Not only that, but you're also fighting Microsoft's different windows editions, with the lower-end editions being crippled in crucial ways, primarily networking and security. (Not that "security" has any meaning here anyway.) Darren, most Windows support gets fobbed off on the OEMs, whose primary cure is reformat and reinstall. You're right that MS support is nothing to get excited about either; it takes forever and it's expensive. Tier one is not actual help, but triage- first try to make you go away. Then try to get you to pay for what you're already entitled. Then if you are persistent and tough, you'll get an actual ticket opened. techiem, I think most "real" geeks gravitate away from windows sooner or later, and into something Unix-y. |
| Steven_Rosenber Nov 14, 2007 11:22 AM EDT |
I'm saying this without actually using the Everex PC, but while a $199 consumer box running Linux is huge, equally huge is the tight integration with Google services -- Docs and Spreadsheets, Gmail, YouTube, Blogger and more. In a way, it's really a Web appliance, which is what most of our hardware has become anyway. Also huge: Enlightenment instead of GNOME/KDE/Xfce. I've never run Enlightenment before, but I'm sure as hell going to give it a try. |
| bigg Nov 14, 2007 11:29 AM EDT |
> I've never run Enlightenment before Given that you're always playing with old hardware, I'm surprised to hear that. It was amazing to me just how responsive an old system becomes with enlightenment, even compared to xfce. I've tried to install E17, which is what gOS uses, but that is not trivial and it is not stable. E16 should be available in the repositories for most distros. You probably should try elive if you want to test E17. |
| techiem2 Nov 14, 2007 11:32 AM EDT |
I've never really run Enlightenment as a standalone wm, but I remember using it when it was the default wm integrated into Gnome back when I used Gnome. I was always fairly impressed with Enlightenment and was disappointed when they switched to Metacity as the default. Actually, I think that's what got me seriously looking at other wms.... |
| tracyanne Nov 14, 2007 12:14 PM EDT |
The people I set up/sell Linux computers to tend to have lots of questions up front, then once they get used to things rarely come back requiring more help. Invariably I go back to them after a long period and they will tell me, no, they don't have any problems. The conclusion I draw from this is that Linux is no more difficult than Windows, and for most people (read ordinary users) the only real problem is unfamiliarity. |
| Sander_Marechal Nov 14, 2007 1:15 PM EDT |
Quoting:I've tried to install E17, which is what gOS uses, but that is not trivial and it is not stable. E16 should be available in the repositories for most distros. You probably should try elive if you want to test E17. Note that there's a really, really big difference between E16 and E17. E16 is a window manager, much like Metacity or Beryl/Emerald. E17 is a complete desktop environment like GNOME, KDE or XFCE. |
| ridgid Nov 14, 2007 1:27 PM EDT |
I have to agree with tracyanne, I have set up linux systems for windows users. those that have an open mind and are willing to learn the basics (like firefox vs IE) have had very few problems that I have had to help them with. and the ones that I have helped were because of codec's |
| techiem2 Nov 14, 2007 1:54 PM EDT |
I have my mom's computer running Linux too. She just needs web/email/word processing, so she's a perfect candidate for average user testing. Once in a while she'll ask me for something, but it's usually help with like fixing settings in OOo to her liking or emailing a link or some such. She doesn't mess around with the system at all, just runs her stuff and is happy. I currently have her on SAM 2007. |
| jdixon Nov 14, 2007 2:15 PM EDT |
> Now TC is making me wonder how many of the decent techs out there are really Linux geeks to begin with.... jdixon waves hand from the back of the room. ;) |
| gus3 Nov 15, 2007 12:15 AM EDT |
/me waves both hands proudly |
| Abe Nov 15, 2007 5:51 AM EDT |
Quoting:Abe, you're right on all points except price,Three out of four is not too bad, TC! :-) You are right. There is a lot more savings with Linux than just the licensing cost, I was just using least case. Thanks for elaborating |
| Steven_Rosenber Nov 15, 2007 9:11 AM EDT |
A big part of this equation is educating users about what FOSS is and why it's important from a business and personal standpoint, taking into account everything from security and maintenance concerns to vendor lock-in, system stability and better hardware utilization. The average user who doesn't even know what Linux is will say, "Hey, my company's too cheap to put Windows on the computers. What's this 'Ubuntu' anyway?" At my company, we didn't have MS Office but needed that functionality to do our work. When they added OpenOffice, I had never heard of it, and very little effort was made to educate users as to what it was. There's NO training in most office settings. In my workplace, we got training on our main, proprietary system, but the 20 other things we use -- we're on our own. People who need to use OO can make it work, but they don't know the philosophy behind open source, or the reasons (besides cost) for not using MS products. Some would say they don't have to; that the apps should stand on their own, with no explanations or apologies needed for using FOSS instead of the proprietary systems every is accustomed to. But users hate change of any kind. Here we couldn't even open a Word document. So getting OO is a big plus. But businesses, and by extension home users as well, need to educate their employees on whatever systems they adopt -- there's nothing wrong with a little context, explanation ... and even training. If big retailers like Wal-Mart can somehow explain what Linux is all about to a huge, nationwide marketplace, that will go a long way toward showing people that there is a viable alternative to Windows and proprietary software. |
| grosspatzer Nov 15, 2007 12:33 PM EDT |
"I've tried to install E17, which is what gOS uses, but that is not trivial and it is not stable. E16 should be available in the repositories for most distros. You probably should try elive if you want to test E17." E17 is in the Mandriva 2008 repos, and so far (after 10 minutes) it hasn't crashed. Very nice eye-candy. I've been able to browse the web, read e-mail, etc., haven't tried anything stressful yet, but for Mandriva users, at least, no need for elive to check out E17. Just install task-e17. |
| bigg Nov 15, 2007 12:59 PM EDT |
> E17 is in the Mandriva 2008 repos Maybe that is a reason to give Mandriva 2008 a try. I'm a Debian user, but do recommend Mandriva to friends, this would be just one more reason to do so. |
| Steven_Rosenber Nov 15, 2007 1:00 PM EDT |
I installed the package called Enlightenment in Ubuntu Gutsy. It's quick, but the menus are kind of screwed up. When I open a longish menu, it won't stay open. But it is quick. It just doesn't work as well as Fluxbox. It does allow apps to load much quicker than in GNOME, and that makes a lot of difference on low-spec hardware. But I agree that an Enlightenment-specific distro would probably be better configured. |
| hkwint Nov 15, 2007 1:21 PM EDT |
techiem2: I made an article which linked to your story on LXer frontpage; http://lxer.com/module/newswire/ext_link.php?rid=96025 |
| hkwint Nov 15, 2007 1:29 PM EDT |
techiem2: I made an article which linked to your story on LXer frontpage; http://lxer.com/module/newswire/ext_link.php?rid=96025 Quoting:If big retailers like Wal-Mart can somehow explain what Linux is all about to a huge, nationwide marketplace, that will go a long way toward showing people that there is a viable alternative to Windows and proprietary software. Well, that's exactly what the webpage http://www.getgnulinux.org/ is all about, except there's no corporate backing (at the moment). Actually, our own LXer editor Sander is involved with it, since we met the initiator at T-Dose NL, and Sander interviewed him. There are things going on behind the scenes to do more marketing, but indeed it's sad to see WalMart doesn't help. Probably they don't care or it's not their core-business. |
| techiem2 Nov 15, 2007 2:27 PM EDT |
eek I've been newswired. :) Will be interesting to see my stats after this month... lol. I'll have to give E17 a go and see how it's doing... |
| azerthoth Nov 15, 2007 6:30 PM EDT |
Good article. well thought out and a very coherent rebuttal. |
| techiem2 Nov 15, 2007 6:34 PM EDT |
Thanks. I tried to keep it fairly simple and straightforward. |
| tuxchick Nov 15, 2007 7:09 PM EDT |
More rational and coherent than the article he's responding to, that's for sure. Though that is darning with faint praise. :) Nice work, techiem. |
| tracyanne Nov 15, 2007 10:29 PM EDT |
Quoting:Maybe that is a reason to give Mandriva 2008 a try. I'm a Debian user, but do recommend Mandriva to friends, this would be just one more reason to do so. Look TC, some one is filling in for me. |
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