oh for poop's sake
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| tuxchick Feb 06, 2008 10:11 PM EDT |
Repeat after me: ndiswrapper is not a Linux wireless driver. It is a clever hack to use Windows wireless drivers on Linux. Do not use ndiswrapper. Buy WICs with native Linux drivers. From now on, all whining about ndiswrapper not working right is banned. |
| gus3 Feb 06, 2008 11:14 PM EDT |
It is a cheesy solution, after all. To go with the whine. |
| tracyanne Feb 07, 2008 12:30 AM EDT |
ndiswrapper. I never could find anything to put in it. |
| gus3 Feb 07, 2008 12:35 AM EDT |
tracyanne: Have you tried ndatwrapper? |
| helios Feb 07, 2008 3:18 AM EDT |
nda wrapper? I thought it was DNA Rapper... Bump-bump-thump scratcha-scratcha-scratcha there's two of me where there was just one now I can say that I have a son I don't have proof that he's really my kin but he's a tax deduction so I'm bankin' dem skins... bump-bump-thump scratcha-scratcha-scratcha |
| pat Feb 07, 2008 3:24 AM EDT |
I guess that somehow driver code is evil because it comes from another OS. The only "poop" I see here is in the comments. He tried to get his wireless working using ndiswrapper and couldn't. What is wrong with that? It would be nice if he had native drivers, but at least he is making it known that he had issues with the work-around. Good article. |
| dinotrac Feb 07, 2008 5:51 AM EDT |
There is, by the way, a native Linux driver that will work with that chipset, but you would need (at least the last time I looked) to back to Linux kernel circa 2.6.18 or so to use it. |
| ColonelPanik Feb 07, 2008 7:26 AM EDT |
TC: How about a wiki that just covers the WiFi cards that have native Linux drivers? This WiFi is the only Linux killer left. |
| hkwint Feb 07, 2008 8:08 AM EDT |
Quoting:He tried to get his wireless working using ndiswrapper and couldn't. What is wrong with that? It's like complaining you can't fit a Chevy V8 in a Seat Marbella. |
| tuxchick Feb 07, 2008 11:43 AM EDT |
ndererappers. We have no rhythm and we have no rhyme we don't have much sense of meter, either but we have lots of spirit and good grammar too! ka-tow ka-tow coo coo ca joo |
| tracyanne Feb 07, 2008 12:24 PM EDT |
Quoting:tracyanne: Have you tried ndatwrapper? NDA Wrapper. That would be the envelope the Non Disclosure Agreement comes in, can't say I have. |
| tracyanne Feb 07, 2008 12:28 PM EDT |
Quoting:The only "poop" I see here is in the comments. I've never use ndiswrapper, because I've never needed to. It is often an option for wireless in the Mandriva Control Centre, but I find the native drivers that Mandriva supply work just fine for all the wireless cards I've tried. Maybe I just get lucky, or in Australia we don't have access to the selection of cards you have, and just by happen stance the majority of cards we can get here work perfectly with Linux drivers. |
| hkwint Feb 07, 2008 1:03 PM EDT |
ndiswrapper also failed me, and I tested more than five Windows drivers I believe. It was Ubuntu anyway with which I was unfamiliar and didn't like in general, so maybe I or Ubuntu was to blame in first place. However, the ndiswrapper project is great because it boosts a large table of which chipsets the wifi-adapters of 'brands to be found in stores' have. If you know which chipsets support Linux, you can look in the Ndiswrapper-table which adapter to buy! |
| ColonelPanik Feb 07, 2008 3:10 PM EDT |
Dino Said:
"There is, by the way, a native Linux driver that will work with that chipset, but you would need
(at least the last time I looked) to back to Linux kernel circa 2.6.18 or so to use it." Thats what kills my lappy. I need 2.6.13 or there abouts. How come we lose functionality with newer kernels? |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 07, 2008 3:41 PM EDT |
Meh. Compile your own kernel and turn off what you don;t need. You can make that 2.6.18 or even the 2.6.22 fly right past your vanilla 2.6.13 PS: I don't know what distro you use (or even if this is distro-specific at all) but Debian keeps it's kernel configuration in a separate file. If you copy the config from your vanilla 2.6.13 kernel to the source directory of your 2.6.18 or 2.6.22 kernel and enter "make menuconfig", it should set all the settings that were used for the vanilla 2.6.13 kernel. Save&exit, "make", and you should have a working kernel.... in theory... This worked when I compiled a 2.6.20 kernel manually on Etch using Debian's vanilla 468 kernel config. |
| dinotrac Feb 07, 2008 3:45 PM EDT |
Sander - Not exactly. There were changes to the wireless stuff after 2.6.19. If the driver you need wasn't updated to match, it won't compile, much less work. |
| herzeleid Feb 07, 2008 3:59 PM EDT |
Quoting:Thats what kills my lappy. I need 2.6.13 or there abouts. How come we lose functionality with newer kernels?Huh? I thought you needed the newer kernel to *gain* the functionality... |
| dinotrac Feb 07, 2008 5:30 PM EDT |
>Huh? I thought you needed the newer kernel to *gain* the functionality... I'm not sure if the 87B driver compiles on 2.6.13 because I never tried it. I do know that Realtek stopped developing it so that it won't work with newer kernels. |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 08, 2008 12:34 AM EDT |
Quoting:There were changes to the wireless stuff after 2.6.19. If the driver you need wasn't updated to match, it won't compile, much less work. Are we talking binary blobs or externally maintained drivers here? Because I recall that drivers in the kernel are updated when the underlying subsystem changes. |
| Scott_Ruecker Feb 08, 2008 12:51 AM EDT |
I just realized...Sander's back!! How is my recently inebriated and hopefully well rested friend and colleague doing? I'm not jealous, really. oh yes he is Besides, who would want to relax, hang out and party with there friends for four or five days? Not me, nope,no way. parties and friends are stupid anyway.. Hope you had a good time. NOT! LOL!! |
| ColonelPanik Feb 08, 2008 7:14 AM EDT |
After reading and rereading this thread, I am confused. Debian Etch with 2.6.18.5 did not work on the lappy. PCLOS with 2.6.18.8 works just fine. Ubuntu w/2.6.13 worked but anything newer did not. This is a huge WTF for those of us that do not think in 1's and 0's. How can one distro do this and another just can't seem to finger it out? |
| jezuch Feb 08, 2008 1:51 PM EDT |
Quoting:How can one distro do this and another just can't seem to finger it out? The distros don't ship vanilla kernels, they have their own unique sets of patches. Apparently some of them patched 2.6.18.x with the driver, others did not... |
| jdixon Feb 08, 2008 4:54 PM EDT |
> The distros don't ship vanilla kernels.. Well, most of them don't. I know of one which usually does. |
| thenixedreport Feb 08, 2008 7:24 PM EDT |
I've managed to get ndiswrapper working a time or two myself. Hey TC, why not contact the author of the article and give them the suggestion of looking for a compatible wifi adapter? |
| dinotrac Feb 08, 2008 9:46 PM EDT |
>Are we talking binary blobs or externally maintained drivers here? Externally maintained driver that isn't being maintained of late. |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 09, 2008 2:39 AM EDT |
Quoting:How is my recently inebriated and hopefully well rested friend and colleague doing? Hi Scott :-) Doing pretty well. I have a slight cold from partying for 6 days straight but I'll manage. Nothing beats celebrating Carnival in my home town. Making music, drinking beer and partying for 6 days from 9-10 AM in the morning to 1-2 AM at night. I love it! Quoting:>Are we talking binary blobs or externally maintained drivers here? Well, then it's not really Linux's probem, is it. They should have brought the driver in-kernel. |
| hkwint Feb 09, 2008 4:26 AM EDT |
That's a problem I came across too: I needed a 2.6.13 (or 2.6.8, I don't recall exactly) kernel as well for the ppscsi patch which wasn't updated after 2.6.13, so it didn't work on my new kernel. I figured out life on Linux couldn't be that hard because an old kernel should be easily available and compilable. Boy, was I wrong. It took me quite some time to find and download that old kernel, only to find out it wouldn't compile, probably because my compiler or whole build environment was too new to compile the old kernel. I have to admit I gave up and gave away that old 'ppscsi' scanner to someone using Windows (though I don't know if it works for him, probably neither). |
| jdixon Feb 09, 2008 6:06 AM EDT |
> Making music, drinking beer and partying for 6 days from 9-10 AM in the morning to 1-2 AM at night. I love it! The voice of youth. :) |
| dinotrac Feb 09, 2008 9:22 AM EDT |
>Well, then it's not really Linux's probem, is it. They should have brought the driver in-kernel. No, it's Linux users' problem. Why you think the source of brokenness matters is beyond. A user's machine works or it doesn't. If it doesn't work, the user can't use Linux. The fact that the Linux developers are not at fault is of no consolation, although... One could make the case that the Linux kernel's lack of respect for it's own APIs causes older drivers to fail when those APIs change or go away. |
| hkwint Feb 09, 2008 3:10 PM EDT |
If it's not Linux's problem, the problem probably is even bigger. How do I turn to for support? Simply trying to use old patches on newer kernels doesn't work either. Basically this means, using hardware that relies on an externally maintained driver that's not allowed in the kernel for some reason (ppscsi is the example I came across) is a bad idea. That's very sad, since Linux is famous for supporting 'old hardware Windows doesn't support anymore'. For me, that was a 1998 scanner which worked perfectly under 2.6.8 when I bought it in 2005 but not in 2007 anymore. The same might be true for the WiFi adapters this thread is about. Pretty sad to see Linux only support old hardware if Linus 'likes' their drivers. |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 10, 2008 11:51 PM EDT |
I could point you to stable_api_nonense.txt but you probably read that already.Quoting:How do I turn to for support? To the hardware vendor. They're the one's that tried to maintain an out-of-kernel driver. |
| dinotrac Feb 11, 2008 12:50 AM EDT |
>To the hardware vendor. They're the one's that tried to maintain an out-of-kernel driver. Exactly right, but here's the irony: That's exactly the answer you would get from Microsoft, with one difference: The Windows driver probably works. |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 11, 2008 2:07 AM EDT |
Meh. Tell that to all the people who have older hardware that stopped working when they upgraded to Vista. |
| dinotrac Feb 11, 2008 5:07 AM EDT |
Except that most people didn't "upgrade" to Vista, they bought it preinstalled. Actually, there is a bit of a reverse problem --- Some of the new Vista machines have hardware for which there are no XP drivers. What a hoot! People get disgusted with Vista, decide to "downgrade" and find out their lan card won't work. As an old Linux hand, I was sure to check for XP drivers when I had to buy a Vista notebook. Just force of habit. Windows users aren't used to that. And, of course, it's all the vendors' fault -- which was my original point. |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 11, 2008 5:54 AM EDT |
Quoting:And, of course, it's all the vendors' fault -- which was my original point. Except that in the Linux world, the vendor has a choice. Bring the driver in-kernel and they don't need to worry about API os subsystem changes anymore. I don't see Microsoft rewriting and updating other people's drivers every time a new Windows version comes out :-) |
| dinotrac Feb 11, 2008 6:16 AM EDT |
>Except that in the Linux world, the vendor has a choice. Yes they do, and it really is the vendor's fault, but it's still ironic that we end up with the same answer as Microsoft, don't you think? |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 11, 2008 11:44 AM EDT |
Not really, actually. Neither the Linux community nor Microsoft can force a hardware vendor to provide drivers for all OS versions if it doesn't want to. What you should be wondering about instead is why there is so little interest in the hardware that nobody in the FOSS community fixed up the old drivers or reverse engineered new drivers. |
| dinotrac Feb 11, 2008 12:16 PM EDT |
>What you should be wondering about instead is why there is so little interest in the hardware that nobody in the FOSS community fixed up the old drivers or reverse engineered new drivers. Ummm.... That's been a bit of a moving target. There were a few patches made, but the kernel wireless stack has not exactly been stable. Tough enough trying to reverse engineer a card, try reverse-engineer a card to an unstable platform. Easier just to get a different dongle. |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 11, 2008 12:43 PM EDT |
Let me rephrase: Not enough interest to patch the driver *and* bring it into the mainline kernel. |
| dinotrac Feb 11, 2008 1:36 PM EDT |
>Let me rephrase: Not enough interest to patch the driver *and* bring it into the mainline kernel. That may change now that the new stack is in place (as of 2.6.24). |
| hkwint Feb 11, 2008 2:03 PM EDT |
As a small sidenote; Sometimes, though gladly not often, the problem is not the willingness to bring a driver into the mainline kernel, but the unwillingness of others to accept it. |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 11, 2008 2:58 PM EDT |
@dino: I hope so. More in-kermel drivers == better. @hand: Perhaps. I can't recall any FOSS hardware drivers being rejected outright. Only stuff that needs blobs or microcode. And IIRC Greg Kroah-Hartman has a small army of developers waiting anxiously for any vendor who wants a FOSS driver in the kernel but doesn't have the knowledge to build one. All they want in return is documentation, even if it's under NDA: http://www.kroah.com/log/linux/linux_driver_project_kickoff.... |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 11, 2008 3:02 PM EDT |
@dino: I just spotted this page about know out-of-kernel drivers that need to be brought in-kernel. It's for GKH's driver challenge: http://linuxdriverproject.org/twiki/bin/view/Main/OutOfTreeD... Is the driver you need on that list? Might be worth adding. |
| hkwint Feb 11, 2008 4:11 PM EDT |
Quoting:I can't recall any FOSS hardware drivers being rejected outright. Nope, can't believe that happened with hardware drivers indeed coming to think of it. Must have been confusing with other stuff (like CK sched and swsusp) that was refused for the 'mainline' kernel maybe. |
| dinotrac Feb 11, 2008 5:35 PM EDT |
Sander - Pretty cool site, actually. The Realtek 8187 is on there, and already merged into the mainline kernel. The 8187B isn't mentioned. It's a different device, though has some commonality. Fortunately for me, I replaced my 8187B with a ralink device and don't need it any more. |
| jezuch Feb 12, 2008 3:39 AM EDT |
Quoting:Nope, can't believe that happened with hardware drivers indeed coming to think of it. I believe there were instances of that happenng, even quite recently. Driver code can be as unacceptable (for example due to different whitespace style ;)) as, say, reiser4 code. And there was, AFAIR, one driver which had suspicious binary blob and was rejected on that grounds... I'm not a LKML watcher, so can't be more specific. |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 12, 2008 11:51 AM EDT |
@jezuch: You realise that you agree with me, right? :-) reiser4 isn't a hardware driver and binary blobs aren't FOSS. As I said, to my knowledge no *FOSS hardware driver* has been rejected from the kernel outright. |
| dinotrac Feb 12, 2008 1:28 PM EDT |
> has been rejected from the kernel outright. But what about the ones tossed out back? |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 12, 2008 2:04 PM EDT |
Such as? |
| dinotrac Feb 12, 2008 2:16 PM EDT |
Oh you silly little Europeans.... >outright >out back |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 12, 2008 2:24 PM EDT |
:-) |
| ColonelPanik Feb 12, 2008 3:29 PM EDT |
This whole topic tells me that any future computers for this
family will have Linux installed from the vendor. |
| Steven_Rosenber Feb 13, 2008 10:59 AM EDT |
It's just so hard to figure out whether or not any given wireless adapter will work with a given Linux kernel. Since there are so many different kernels being used, it's maddening. I'm no expert, and I've never compiled a kernel, but it seems to me that users can and should be able to add support for any device to any recent kernel. And when identical-looking adapters (Airlink AWLL3026 and Airlink AWLL3028) have totally different chipsets, that doesn't make it any easier. All this tells me is that my Orinoco WaveLAN Silver PCMCIA card -- recognized by every damn thing I've thrown at it -- is worth its weight in gold. .. or Gold, because I'm going to try to find an Orinoco WaveLAN Gold card to add to my arsenal of gear. I know there are some chipset vendors who are very cooperative about writing drivers for Linux, but it would be very nice if one company -- say Netgear, D-Link, Linksys -- just one of them, would have a policy of writing drivers for Linux. I'd prefer they be open-source drivers, of course, but at this point anything would be better than nothing. And if this would-be magical company would print on the box, in their documentation and on their Web site that the product was Linux-compatible, they'd sell more and, more importantly, have the entire FOSS community promoting their products as being the most Linux friendly. If they can write separate drives for Win 98, 2000, XP and Vista, they can do a little for the rest of us. |
| tuxchick Feb 13, 2008 11:08 AM EDT |
Don't forget WinCE, Windows Mobile, Windows Media Center (multiple editions), and how many home and pro versions of each one are there? Vista alone offers: Ultimate, Home Premium, Home Basic, Business, Enterprise, and don't forget the Windows Wizened and Crippled Edition that is being released in emerging markets. |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 13, 2008 12:50 PM EDT |
Quoting:it would be very nice if one company -- say Netgear, D-Link, Linksys -- just one of them, would have a policy of writing drivers for Linux. No need. Drivers should be written by the chipset manufacturers. Not the guys who put them in a bit of plastic and print their logo on it. What Netgear et. al. should do is clearly state on the box what chipset is used. Last time I went shopping for a wifi dongle I had to take it back 4 times because everytime I ended up with Broadcom crap. You simply can't find it on the box. Only on one vendors box did I happen to see the microscopic fine print that said the device contained some patented Broadcom technologies, so I assumed it was a broadcom chip. Can't they just print the chip model in the little table with tech specs?! |
| Steven_Rosenber Feb 13, 2008 1:34 PM EDT |
When Airlink 101 did that little switch with their dirt-cheap USB adapter, I was none too happy, since the "older" model used Ralink, while the newer used the not-supported Realtek 8187b ... |
| hkwint Feb 13, 2008 3:04 PM EDT |
Good idea, but do not print it on the box please. I still want to be able to read what the chipset is after the one asking me to 'make it work in Linux' threw away the box. |
| Sander_Marechal Feb 13, 2008 3:11 PM EDT |
Hans: It's it's on the spec sheet on the box it'll be on the spec sheet on the website and on ever webshop's site that sells it. Good enough for me :-) |
| rijelkentaurus Feb 13, 2008 5:59 PM EDT |
FWIW, I have found the best way to find a wireless card that works with Linux is to go to http://customerproducts.atheros.com/customerproducts/default... and search. I have found that Atheros has yet to let me down, hopefully that will not change. |
| techiem2 Feb 13, 2008 6:06 PM EDT |
That's pretty cool. |
| Steven_Rosenber Feb 13, 2008 7:08 PM EDT |
I get this: HTTP 403.9 - Access Forbidden: Too many users are connected Internet Information Services Technical Information (for support personnel) * Background: This error can occur if the Web server is busy and cannot process your request due to heavy traffic. * More information: Microsoft Support |
| rijelkentaurus Feb 13, 2008 7:44 PM EDT |
I got no problem with it. Perhaps everyone from LXer went there at one time? :) Hey, we crashed helios, now we've crashed Atheros!!! |
| thenixedreport Feb 14, 2008 12:27 AM EDT |
Technically speaking, digg had a hand in crashing helios as well..... lol |
| hkwint Feb 14, 2008 5:57 AM EDT |
It works for me though... |
| ColonelPanik Feb 14, 2008 8:12 AM EDT |
Hey, lets LXer /. |
| Steven_Rosenber Feb 14, 2008 8:59 AM EDT |
I did finally see the site -- very helpful. |
| techiem2 Feb 14, 2008 9:06 AM EDT |
So is there a list of which Atheros chipsets work nicely in linux? |
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