Wow
|
| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| rijelkentaurus May 10, 2008 5:59 AM EDT |
Screw the consumer...want a light, inexpensive portable machine capable of doing everything that your $1000 monstrosity can do? We could do that...but we can't do that. This is comparable, IMO, to an electric company buying up a small company that produces a widget the average home owner can use to power their house with, enabling them to get off the grid. MS doesn't want us off the grid, and consumers who want Linux, BSD (or heck, even a small but powerful Windows unit) need to be mad as hell right now. Does anyone still think MS doesn't abuse its monopoly? |
| dinotrac May 10, 2008 6:04 AM EDT |
>Does anyone still think MS doesn't abuse its monopoly? Did anyone ever think that? |
| rijelkentaurus May 10, 2008 6:06 AM EDT |
Quoting: Did anyone ever think that? Here, perhaps not. Out in the real world...only most people. "It's just business", etc. |
| mark_oz May 10, 2008 6:46 AM EDT |
Predatory pricing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing "Predatory pricing (also known as destroyer pricing) is the practice of a firm selling a product at very low price with the intent of driving competitors out of the market, or create a barrier to entry into the market for potential new competitors." This is actually an illegal market-manipulation practice. In most countries, it would be against anti-trust and anti-competitive practices laws. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-competitive_practices It should be possible to write to your legal representatives in most countries and protest this move by Microsoft. From the wikipedia article, here is a list of anti-competitive practices that are probably involved in this: * Dumping, where products are sold into a market at a low price which renders competition impossible, in order to wipe out competitors. * Barriers to entry (to an industry) designed to avoid the competition that new entrants would bring. * Limit Pricing, where the price is set by a monopolist to discourage economic entry into a market. * Coercive monopoly - all potential competition is barred from entering the market |
| Bob_Robertson May 10, 2008 8:29 AM EDT |
> * Coercive monopoly - all potential competition is barred from entering the market A situation only possible by government mandate. See: Major League Baseball |
| jdixon May 10, 2008 11:35 AM EDT |
> "Predatory pricing (also known as destroyer pricing) is the practice of a firm selling a product at very low price with the intent of driving competitors out of the market, or create a barrier to entry into the market for potential new competitors." Except it doesn't really apply in this case. the only real competitors are free, and you can't undercut that. Companies will still be free to sell UMPC's with Linux installed if they want to, and they'll be able to offer them with features they can't offer with XP. |
| jhansonxi May 10, 2008 12:43 PM EDT |
Every XP Home license is a lost Vista license. |
| techiem2 May 10, 2008 1:03 PM EDT |
Heh. That whole thing is just weird...they can get XP for dirt, but it's XP HOME, so it's crippled already, plus they have to limit the power of the machines.... Sounds like a management/production/support hassle to me. Seems like it would just be easier for the manufacturers to build them how they want and put Linux on.... |
| Bob_Robertson May 10, 2008 3:18 PM EDT |
> Seems like it would just be easier for the manufacturers to build them how they want and put Linux on.... Which is _exactly_ what they did, before Microsoft got to them. There's no question that Microsoft got them by the short hairs, the only question is exactly _how_ Microsoft did it. Bribery? "Channel Support"? Blackmail? |
| jdixon May 10, 2008 4:16 PM EDT |
> ...the only question is exactly _how_ Microsoft did it. Probably by tying their discounts on Vista to their exclusive use of XP on such devices. |
| dinotrac May 11, 2008 12:45 AM EDT |
>Probably by tying their discounts on Vista to their exclusive use of XP on such devices. In the US, that would not be legal -- at least not directly. There is an indirect approach that might be legal. It is ok to tie discounts to volume purchases -- so long as those discounts are available to all sellers. The discounts could be based on copies of Windows. So...if a copy of crippled old XP Home counts the same as a copy of Vista Business, those copies could indeed affect the discount on Vista. |
| hkwint May 11, 2008 3:49 AM EDT |
Quoting:In the US, that would not be legal -- at least not directly. Like Microsoft cares. Not! They can break the law and be convicted for doing so without any penalty in the US. |
| vainrveenr May 11, 2008 7:32 AM EDT |
Quoting:Like Microsoft cares. Not! They can break the law and be convicted for doing so without any penalty in the US.Yep. ... and this seems to be the case, as well, for EU countries that were so "encouraged" to approve OOXML. See the latest reported negative results of Microsoft's shenanigans here, via 'Has OOXML Broken the British Standards Institution?' http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/102487/index.html |
| dinotrac May 11, 2008 8:14 AM EDT |
>Like Microsoft cares. Not! Maybe, maybe not, but...as it stands, there is no evidence at all that Microsoft has broken those laws. |
| gus3 May 11, 2008 8:16 PM EDT |
Not even a criminal conviction? |
| tuxchick May 11, 2008 8:44 PM EDT |
So many half-empties. Think about it- FOSS, and especially Linux, are the only entities ever who have successfully forced Microsoft to change course. For all of their bragging about innovation, which we know is manure, they're copycats, and not even good ones. They used to badmouth the OLPC. Now they want it. Their idea of minis was nasty little WinCE handhelds. Now they're horning in on small laptops. They're trying to dictate hardware specifications to the laptop manufacturers, though you know they've been getting away with that for decades. They're price-cutting, which no one else has ever made them do. How many discounts and incentives can MS afford? With a bazillion-dollar bank account they can burn through a lot of clams. But sooner or later they need to show a profit. Their most profitable product lines are Office and Windows, and they have a few other minor thingies that mostly stay in the black. But their money sinks are many- Office and Windows, and their investment teams pretty much prop up the whole company. Ballmer is doing such a cruddy job as CEO I predict we're going to see a rather drastic implosion in the next couple-three years. I sure wish the Yahoo deal had gone through. Giggle. MS won't go away, but the board and shareholders are going to get tired of all the wheel-spinning and there is going to be a management shakeup. Maybe some actual humans will step into the top spots. Meanwhile, if ASUS and others will resist torpedoing their Linux lines just to soothe the Borg, Linux PCs will continue to grow. I think they're pretty ballsy marketing anything to the whiniest, hardest-to-please demographic on the planet. |
| bigg May 12, 2008 3:11 AM EDT |
> How many discounts and incentives can MS afford? With a bazillion-dollar bank account they can burn through a lot of clams. But sooner or later they need to show a profit. Beyond that, those tactics don't work against FOSS. That strategy is like everything else that Microsoft does: it is designed to destroy the competitors they had in the late 1980's. FOSS will respond by getting better and making the required "incentives" all that much greater next year. In return for taking away this market, Microsoft will feel greater pressure on everything it sells. At some point they have to stop believing the nonsense that they still have a monopoly. That Ballmer continues to hold his job makes me question the viability of capitalism. |
| tracyanne May 12, 2008 4:30 AM EDT |
Don't badmouth Ballmer, he's doing a great job. |
| TxtEdMacs May 12, 2008 9:22 AM EDT |
tuxchick, Not quite true, however, if you inserted "forced" that might have been a valid assessment. "They're price-cutting, which no one else has ever made them do." They have done it many times, when they wanted the market. They gave away IE "free", but at the time the neither the software nor the browser name belonged to them. Regarding the former, the deal was give us the software and we will split the profits, well giving it away at no cost meant no profits to split. The latter is a nasty story, where there was an Internet Explorer browser belonging to a well regarded ISP that was pushed into bankruptcy. The assigned conservators settled for a pittance (from memory a million or so). |
| Steven_Rosenber May 12, 2008 1:24 PM EDT |
Even if Linux only gains traction in the techy-geeky community, MS is losing a whole lot of mindshare. The only place where FOSS really can't play, in my opinion, is in high-level graphic design. As good as the GIMP, Krita and other programs are, they can't do what Photoshop, InDesign and the entire Adobe Creative Suite can do. If you or your employer can pay, I say go for the Mac, fully outfitted with all that Adobe software. For the rest of us, it's Linux (and BSD if that floats your boat). |
| flufferbeer May 12, 2008 2:27 PM EDT |
@Steven_Rosenber
You wrote
"Even if Linux only gains traction in the techy-geeky community, MS is losing a whole lot of mindshare." I'd agree with the gist of this, but would still like to inquire, How much and Where is Micro$.... losing all this mindshare? Is the loss of mindshare perceptibly a tricke now or a widening stream and just how would one measure this? Unfortunately, examples such as low-cost PCs can show that this could go either way. Either that Micri$-- will get onto the low-cost PC by any means and in any amount, meaning "Stop the trickle" -or- that Micro$--- has to really stop the floodgates big-time so to speak, and must do so NOW! Where within in the techy-geeky community is M$ losing any mindshare or its biggest percentage? Within small businesses and startups, within large enterprises, within educationl groups and governments, within the US, within the European Union, within BRIC countries, within persons way past college age, within the college-age university crowd, ... what?? |
| gus3 May 12, 2008 10:43 PM EDT |
Quoting:Is the loss of mindshare perceptibly a trickle now or a widening stream and just how would one measure this?Anecdotal evidence: My bench-runner tonight, a most un-geeky guy if ever there was one, was discussing the repairs his system needed, including a new HD to replace the one that died. The fellow doing the repairs asked, "Do you want XP or Vista on this?" The response: "Under no circumstances do I want Vista!" Now, in Redmond, those might be fightin' words, but elsewhere, there's a huge build-up of resentment against the "Microsoft tax," especially when that hard-earned cash goes toward nothing but unproductive eye-candy. Tonight's conversation was hardly the first time I'd heard the sentiment. So, in response to the question, I'd say it's a widening stream that's growing into a gully. I did mention Linux as an alternative, in case you're wondering. Probably won't happen, but at least I offered. |
| tracyanne May 12, 2008 11:44 PM EDT |
Quoting:The response: "Under no circumstances do I want Vista!" That's the sort of thing I hear too. |
| gus3 May 13, 2008 12:44 AM EDT |
Actually, I cleaned it up a little, to meet LXer's TOS. |
| vainrveenr May 13, 2008 2:48 PM EDT |
Quoting:Is the loss of mindshare perceptibly a tricke now or a widening stream and just how would one measure this?.... the latest info is that news of Microsoft's plans for ultra low cost PC's is trickling out, in order for it to try hard to successfully "stop the floodgates" of lost mindshare A.S.A.P. For example Quoting:For companies manufacturing PCs that meet these [MS's ultra low-cost PC] specs, Windows XP will be available for $26 in emerging markets and $32 in developed markets, though a marketing agreement knocks another $10 off the price.( from 'Microsoft’s plan to block Linux on laptops' at http://blogs.zdnet.com/computers/?p=170 ) |
Posting in this forum is limited to members of the group: [ForumMods, SITEADMINS, MEMBERS.]
Becoming a member of LXer is easy and free. Join Us!