Netbook Linux at a Crossroads

iKrap This dude came to a crossroad and turned the wrong way. He would say bad things about a $100,000 car because the headlight switch was on the right instead of the left.

Those silly companies making netbooks could have talked with the Linux Community before the toys hit the stores! But computer makers don't care about Linux.

Yeah, this is a pretty bad article. No foundation or data whatsoever, just someone who strung some erroneous opinions together.

Yup - and the continued proposition that the 'mainstream user' would know how to troubleshoot issues "...synchronizing properly with a digital camera or external DVD drive..." with Windows, without googling for the answers.

In my experience helping maintstream PC user-folk, the large majority of them have no idea how to fix Windows issues period. They don't go googling, they call someone who they know can help - someone who "works with computers"..

If people are interested in helping themselves and learning, linux gives them that opportunity and a massive community to tap into. If people are not interested in learning and just want to do particular tasks (documents, web, mail, im etc), ANY OS will do the trick - and they'll still call for help when they need it. The key there is getting more people who "work with computers" knowledgeable about linux.

> MSI’s recent return rates – four times that of Windows XP models

Yet another rehashing of this unproven and almost certainly false assertion.

> ...and the recent controversial story of a woman who couldn’t do required classwork because she couldn’t run required software on her Linux netbook...

Did anyone see ANY indication that what she ordered from Dell was a netbook?

> On the other hand, as netbooks become more powerful, they’ll become more capable of running operating systems that require a larger memory, CPU, and hard disk footprint...

Of course, they won't be running XP, as Microsoft won't let the vendors install XP on those "more powerful" machines. They only let vendors install XP on netbooks now because it's the only actively supported version of Windows which will run on them, and otherwise they cede the entire market to Linux.

I pretty much stopped reading at that point. It didn't seem worth the trouble.

Quoting: > On the other hand, as netbooks become more powerful, they’ll become more capable of running operating systems that require a larger memory, CPU, and hard disk footprint...

Netbooks could be far more powerful than they are now, but MS has essentially crippled them because they won't allow XP to be installed unless the specs are quite low. &#^#*@(@!!!

I hate M$ more and more each day.

> as netbooks become more powerful, they’ll become more capable of running operating systems that require a larger memory, CPU, and hard disk footprint

I didn't bother reading the article because it looked like one of those "get some ad revenue without actually working" type of articles. We have netbooks with greater power - they're called notebooks.

Don't worry, next year they'll have portable mainframes.

gus3, wait until you see my mobil cluster. miniBeowulf.

What is in a netbook. These companies are not making screens or keyboards. The chassis is stamped to their specs but everything else is off the shelf hardware. So where is my opensource netbook? Here is the spot for a new company.

>Yet another rehashing of this unproven and almost certainly false assertion.

So you think MSI's sales director is lying? Why?

The article wasn't that impressive, but the comments here are even less so.

Seriously, is anybody here surprised that people would want the same thing on their netbooks that they use elsewhere?

Do you not remember the variety of PCs that used to be available? Not just Macs, but Amigas, Ataris, and more.

People wanted to run what they had at the office, even when the alternatives were much, much nicer.

The bottom line to the article rings true: Netbooks have created a lot of new Linux users.

> So you think MSI's sales director is lying? Why?

Lying, misquoted, or whatever. But yes.

First, because no one else is reporting the same thing. Second, because as far as I can tell, the MSI models were never sold with Linux. If it happened at all, it was probably in a test marketing campaign.

Quoting:Yet another rehashing of this unproven and almost certainly false assertion.

It's true actually. For MSI that is. And not such a surprise. They did quite a crappy implementation of Suse on their MSI Wind.

Quoting:First, because no one else is reporting the same thing

Gerry Carr of Canonical noticed it as well, though for Ubuntu netbooks it's not 4 times: http://blog.laptopmag.com/ubuntu-confirms-linux-netbook-retu... Jerry Shen (ASUS) says their Linux netbook return rates are the same as Windows: http://ostatic.com/blog/asus-ceo-says-linux-netbook-returns-...

So, it depends on the implementation. MSI's is crap so they get higher returns. No surprise there...

>So, it depends on the implementation

It's more than that. The best Linux implementation in the world isn't Windows. Not worse than Windows. Like the Amiga and Mac before it, better, in fact. But -- not Windows.

One of the comments on the Gerry Carr piece was instructive -- and may offer a hint as to why Asus netbooks don't have the same problem.

The question was why people bought palms and iphones and the like. It's a great question because they are different devices -- not Windows -- and have a learning curve, albeit a short one.

Netbooks should have been marketed aggressively as a different device from a notebook, but one that lets you do much of the same work. They could have touted their special "netbook OS" streamlined and customized to get maximum power out of little hardware. Cool Ads, even -- "In today's world, you need to be energy efficient, do a lot with a little. Compare our netbook with a Windows notebook" or something like that.

Sort of "Sure, I'm different, but anything you can do, I can do better."

> They did quite a crappy implementation of Suse on their MSI Wind.

I tried to find an MSI Wind with Linux installed. I couldn't do so. Did you actually see one? All the ones I could find came with Windows installed. I'm sure some were produced, but I couldn't find any to actually buy at any of the usual sites I shop (newegg, mwave, walmart, et.al).

I'm willing to grant that they did an initial test run with both Linux and Windows, and that their returns at that time were higher for Linux, perhaps even the 4x figure quoted. But I'm not willing to grant it as a general case.

I just checked the MSI Wind page to see what they offered. Here's the URL for others to check: http://www.msimobile.com/level2_productlist.aspx?id=3

Try to find any mention of Linux anywhere on that page.

I'll grant the point that if someone is selling a netbook without making clear that it doesn't have Windows installed, they're going to have people who expected Windows returning it. That's a failure of marketing though, not a failure in the netbook.

Whenever I've seen netbooks on sale in the UK, it has always been made very plain whether they are running Linux or Windows. There's never been a problem either with getting hold of the Linux versions and as the UK in general seems very Windows orientated still I'm surprised it seems easier over here to both get them and be aware it's a non-Windows version you're getting.

Maplin - a hobbyist electronics cum electrical goods chain even sell a Linux only netbook for around £130 which are selling very well according to me friend who works there. I have an on-line friend who has bought one. She's very non computer literate and seems to be getting on just fine with it.

I simply don't believe a lot of the crap written about people needing to have Windows netbooks because the evidence I've seen here with non-Linux folk is quite to the contrary.