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Ballmer: Android ain't free. Microsoft gets paid.
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Comments (15)
Google needs to stop this NOW
If google doesnt stop this now MS will ruin all confidence anyone had in android. And people like me will be sol as it is i cant buy HTC phones now without paying the MS tax!! If this continues we will only have meego and nokia hasnt been agressive enought with it and its hardware!
This is what is causing Microsoft to act:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20018246-17.html http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9ILIE0O1.htm
Whether or not it's a good strategy, it's the best you can expect from the guy who delivered Vista to the world. A lot of companies will probably be glad to pay a fee just to not have to see correspondence with his face on it.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13506_3-20018246-17.html http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9ILIE0O1.htm
Whether or not it's a good strategy, it's the best you can expect from the guy who delivered Vista to the world. A lot of companies will probably be glad to pay a fee just to not have to see correspondence with his face on it.
They're just hypocrites. The left hand is smacking Android Linux with patent threats, while the right hand is teaming up with EFF and many others to get rid of the patent mess.
@ Sander: Actually, it isn't hypocrisy that is driving them. It is the bottom line. Whatever they see as potentially profitable they will do. They may go in the opposite direction at the same time as a fallback position. That way, no matter what the outcome, they have a foundation on which to build. Trying to profit from the patent system while it exists is a short term strategy. Doing away with it before it bites them you know where is long term. From a business perspective the two can coexist even though they seem at odds on the face of it. bigg has this exactly right. It may not be great strategy, but they will do whatever they can to enhance the bottom line. Morals? Principles? Consistency? Nobody at Microsoft will let those little things get in the way of making money.
@viator: There is no way Google can stop Microsoft from suing their customers. Microsoft clearly hopes to get more settlements like the one they got from HTC. They don't want this in court and they are not hoping for litigation. They are hoping that the manufacturers buy them off since that is usually cheaper than a long, drawn out court case. Going after Google directly wouldn't work nearly as well. Google can help their customers' defense if it goes to court but it likely never will.
Oh, and yes, destroying confidence in Android is exactly what it is all about. If MeeGo gets traction in the marketplace they will be the next target. Ultimately, if you look at the patents Microsoft is using they can sure pretty much sue anyone who uses an OS other than Windows and most application developers, vendors and customers as well. If any of this ever really goes to court the validity of the patents can be challenged. If these cases settle then that never happens.
@viator: There is no way Google can stop Microsoft from suing their customers. Microsoft clearly hopes to get more settlements like the one they got from HTC. They don't want this in court and they are not hoping for litigation. They are hoping that the manufacturers buy them off since that is usually cheaper than a long, drawn out court case. Going after Google directly wouldn't work nearly as well. Google can help their customers' defense if it goes to court but it likely never will.
Oh, and yes, destroying confidence in Android is exactly what it is all about. If MeeGo gets traction in the marketplace they will be the next target. Ultimately, if you look at the patents Microsoft is using they can sure pretty much sue anyone who uses an OS other than Windows and most application developers, vendors and customers as well. If any of this ever really goes to court the validity of the patents can be challenged. If these cases settle then that never happens.
> They don't want this in court and they are not hoping for litigation.
Sure, just imagine what would happen if they sued Google. It would be in the news everyday. Everyone would view it as "Dinosaur takes innovative company to court because they can't compete." There would be no better marketing for Google.
Sure, just imagine what would happen if they sued Google. It would be in the news everyday. Everyone would view it as "Dinosaur takes innovative company to court because they can't compete." There would be no better marketing for Google.
> If google doesnt stop this now
And how exactly would you propose Google stop it? It's not like they can stop people from filing suits. The could offer to bankroll any Android defense fees, but aside from that I don't see much they can do about the matter.
And how exactly would you propose Google stop it? It's not like they can stop people from filing suits. The could offer to bankroll any Android defense fees, but aside from that I don't see much they can do about the matter.
was about to ask the same question.
One lesson from the SCO follies is plaintiffs should have to present evidence supporting their litigation before allowing it proceed. SCO had nothing, and spun nothing into an eight-year debacle that still isn't over. Oh wait, in this deal there is evidence-- patents. Oh wait, that still means 'nothing'.
Quoting:And how exactly would you propose Google stop it? It's not like they can stop people from filing suits.Yes, they can. When the only purpose of filing a suit is to harass, it can be deemed "vexatious litigation" in the USA and "barratry" in England. It can result in sanctions against legal counsel (rarely, but not never), and court-ordered review of all future suits before being allowed to file (very common).
As TC alludes, SCO tried similar misbehavior against IBM, and Magistrate Brooke Wells smacked both SCO and their legal counsel for it.
The problem here is that all sorts of patents have been upheld by the courts so in the current framework of the American legal system Microsoft does have something, and actually maybe quite a lot. Patent trolling is widespread because it works. Sorry, "vexatious litigation" does not apply in a case like this. The fact that they have the patent and have a claim that it has been violated is enough.
If you look at how vague the patents are and what Microsoft claims to own they would have a legitimate claim if these patents were upheld. Of course, a lot of companies including IBM, HP, Oracle via Sun, Apple, Novell, and Rackspace via SGI all could make claims of prior art, meaning they invented it before Microsoft patented it.
If you look at how vague the patents are and what Microsoft claims to own they would have a legitimate claim if these patents were upheld. Of course, a lot of companies including IBM, HP, Oracle via Sun, Apple, Novell, and Rackspace via SGI all could make claims of prior art, meaning they invented it before Microsoft patented it.
Read the response from Google. They hit back pretty hard with two major points:
1. Oracle at one time called for Sun to release the Java toolkit under the GPL. Sun eventually did so, except for the Java Mobile stuff. Now that Oracle owns Sun's portfolio, doing a complete reversal on Java is hypocritical at best, and probably violates the "clean hands doctrine."
2. Oracle makes some very broad accusations about Dalvik, but like SCO, they're hoping they can snow some judge into believing the charges. Well, Dalvik is completely open-source, but Oracle makes no effort in their initial filings to point out where in Dalvik one can find the alleged violations.
And since Oracle is a multi-national, if they make accusations in any public forum, while refusing to show evidence, they can expect the same treatment from EU types that SCO got for the same behavior.
1. Oracle at one time called for Sun to release the Java toolkit under the GPL. Sun eventually did so, except for the Java Mobile stuff. Now that Oracle owns Sun's portfolio, doing a complete reversal on Java is hypocritical at best, and probably violates the "clean hands doctrine."
2. Oracle makes some very broad accusations about Dalvik, but like SCO, they're hoping they can snow some judge into believing the charges. Well, Dalvik is completely open-source, but Oracle makes no effort in their initial filings to point out where in Dalvik one can find the alleged violations.
And since Oracle is a multi-national, if they make accusations in any public forum, while refusing to show evidence, they can expect the same treatment from EU types that SCO got for the same behavior.
In my opinion, Nokia is pretty much 'lost' now they formed a strategic alliance with Microsoft, are planning "Windows Phone" smartphones and made an ex-softie their boss.
> Yes, they can. When the only purpose of filing a suit is to harass, it can be deemed "vexatious litigation" in the USA
Yes, but that's the court system, not Google. Google has no such power.
Yes, but that's the court system, not Google. Google has no such power.
MS hasn't won
Note that MS has never won any suit, and it appears that Motorola will defend itself in court instead of settling. Eventually, the nuisance factor will cause companies to fight this never ending extortion, and perhaps even band together as they have in other areas. This type of extortion has always existed in the computer world. When mainframes ruled the world and IBM was the 300 pound gorilla, there were trolls as well. Some companies produced nothing. Their only income was from suing IBM. Eventually the nuisance factor became too great, and once IBM started defending itself in court, even though it cost a lot more, the trolls had to find another carcass to feed upon.
Right now it is still far cheaper than to challenge the patents in court. That is what Microsoft is banking on.
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