Advanced

Dell To Fix Misleading Advertising Links

Posted by dcparris on · 35 comments
LXer - Linux News; By D.C. Parris (Charlotte, USA)
Mail this story
Print this story

LXer Feature: 05-May-2007

In some Google searches for Linux computers, Dell advertisements have cropped up in the advertising links, leading unsuspecting users to Windows-only computers at Dell's website. After initially being ignored, LXer finally gets a response from Dell.

In late February or early March, active LXer member, cyber_rigger, raised concerns about Dell advertising links showing up in Google searches related to Linux computers. In searching on the terms "linux notebooks", a Dell ad appeared in the result page. The problem is that unsuspecting users, believing they would find Linux computers being sold by Dell were taken to Dell's site offering Windows computers - no Linux anything to be found. Many in the GNU/Linux community viewed the ads as intentionally misleading.



LXer's Don Parris, initially skeptical about cyber_rigger's findings, sought and received, screen shots and links. Although the links seem to be buried somewhere in a thread, the screenshots showing the Dell ad links were preserved at Flickr. Parris confirmed that the links were misleading by following them, and sought to raise the issue with Dell's public relations team.

Dell did not respond to Parris' initial inquiries. However, since Dell spokesman, John Pope, recently began interacting with LXer's audience, we were able to get a decisive response to the issue. As Parris explained to Pope, "I can verify that in both cases, the links led to Windows-only computer options. It seems to have ceased, but for how long? It's problematic for many of our readers. We want computer novices/new users to be able to find and see the Linux options alongside the Windows options. Advertising like that in the screenshots is quite misleading. There are still many novices that honestly don't understand that Microsoft isn't the only vendor out there. I've met them personally. At worst, such users think they're buying 'Microsoft Linux'. That's funny when you think about it, but I doubt seriously that the user will be laughing when they discover the truth."



A second representative, identified only as Kent, responded to screenshots showing both a Google search result, and an advertisement banner on LXer's front page. Kent stated in a private message to Parris that, "We are working with our ad team to correct this". The response comes as Dell moves to launch it's desktop Linux initiative, and may be a sign that Dell is taking the GNU/Linux community seriously.



Dell faces strong skepticism coming from many in the GNU/Linux community, and will have to work hard to overcome that. One of the greatest concerns is that Dell will offer, but not seriously promote GNU/Linux. The fear is that Dell will allow the GNU/Linux offerings to be lost among the Windows offerings, difficult to find and priced higher than their Windows counterparts. Some hope Dell will contribute to the Tux500 campaign as a way to both demonstrate their seriousness, and to help their Ubuntu-centric initiative.



Regardless of whether Dell responds to the Tux500 challenge, fixing misleading advertising links will definitely be a welcome sign to many in the community. No one wants to follow a link looking for Linux computers, only to be offered a web page full of Windows computers. While it is possible that the misleading ads crop up in error, or are poorly thought out, the important thing is that Dell is working to correct the problem. How effective Dell's advertising team will be remains to be seen. The community will definitely be watching.



Editor's Note: It should be noted that recent efforts to duplicate the advertising link problem failed to bring up any Dell ads at all - at least, not on the first few pages of the results.

  Nav
» Read more about: Story Type: LXer Features, News Story; Groups: Community, Linux, LXer

» Get new stories by e-mail: nightly or as they are published

« Return to the newswire homepage

  Related stories
» More like this

Comments (35)

Misleading links

...are still there. Just did a Google search both from the Firefox searchbox and from Google's home page. The search term "linux notebooks" results in a Dell link as the second sponsored link. The link, http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/notebooks... of course, leads to a page with three laptops pre-loaded with Windows. No Linux offerings are on that page. Indeed, no mention of Linux is shown on the page at all.
Thanks. Hopefully, Kent and John are paying attention - I let John know my report would be out today.
Call me wacky, a foamy idealist, a crazy-eyed fanatic, but generally on shopping sites when I click a link for foo, I expect it to take me to a page about foo. Not bar, not blah, nor even feh. But foo itself. But then I am not a bigtime corporate marketeer, so who knows, I might be missing something way advanced beyond my pretty little head.

This is what a search for "linux laptop" on dell.com leads to: [url=http://search.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen&c=us&l=en&cs=&k=linux laptop&cat=prod&x=0&y=0]http://search.dell.com/results.aspx?s=gen&c=us&l=en&cs=&k=li...[/url] Not a Linux nor a laptop in sight. "linux notebook" brings up the same results. "linux server" returns irrelevant results as well, and I know darn well they sell those.

A search on "red hat" brings up some almost-relevant results. Like this one: http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=0... How nice, it ships with no operating system, or your choices of Windows licenses.

Searching on "linux" brings up all kinds of interesting things, like Symantec's PC Anywhere and Adobe Cold Fusion. "linux computer" doesn't help much either. It's been this way ever since I can remember.

Ha, and JPD called us cynical. More like "realistic."
TC -

OTOH,

If Dell will fix the links, bring out decent Linux offerings, etc, we should welcome them and consider today to be a different day from yesterday...

At least until we're proven wrong.
oh I totally agree dino. all I'm saying is talk is cheap, and dell's history with linux is rather pitiful. If they really do what they say they are going to, that will be a wonderful thing, and deserving of cheers.
Hmmm. I was told this was taken care of. Just forwarded the examples cited above, which hopefully will help us rectify quickly.
JohnPatDell.

I take it that the Dell Australia Links will be fixed also.
JPD: Thanks for the effort :-)
I'm still getting ads for DELL when I type in the exact phrase "Linux Computers". I get the following Google results page

[url=http://www.google.com.au/search?q="Linux computers"&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a]http://www.google.com.au/search?q="Linux computers"&ie=utf-8...[/url]
I typed in the same thing as you and got this.

[url=http://www.google.com/search?q="Linux Computers"&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.debian:en-US:unofficial&client=iceweasel-a/]http://www.google.com/search?q="Linux Computers"&ie=utf-8&oe...[/url]
Interesting, that may actually be a Google thing. Because I see an Apple ad in the top corner, it too would have nothing to do with Linux, and an exact phrase search should not return any pages that don't have that exact phrase, and those DELL and Apple links are Google ads, not search results, so Google must be parsing the search criteria and returning ads based on specific words, not phrases.

If I were a company that has purchased adsense space I'd complain that my ads are being targeted at the wrong audience, and I'm not getting value for my money.
Google is keying on Notebooks or Laptops and not linux ... that is absolutely normal for sponsor adds on google.

Dell can't do anything about that.

Actually they can. The AdWords interface give you a large ammount of control over what search words your ads appear on, in combination with what other words, what combinations should not generate ad views, etcetera. It's just a matter of a lot of fine tuning.

Oh, and Dell probably doesn't do this themselves. They probably employ a Search Engine Marketing company that runs their AdWord campaigns for them.
Sander: You are very astute. As a result of this dialogue, Dell is in the process of working with marketing in each of its business units, as well as the outside agencies involved, to "fine tune" our broadmatch and keyword insertions. Not a simple task given the degree of global decentralization, but we hear you and are moving on it. Again, it was not our intent to mislead anyone. The kinds of keyword search ads in question don't hit the mark for us, either.
A Google search on the words 'dell linux' (don't use the quotes in the search) gives three news stories followed by the following link: http://www.dell.com/linux

That is a very nice page.

The first two links on the page for computers are: http://www.dell.com/content/products/compare.aspx/desktops_n... http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/nseries_n...

These are the desktops and laptops with FreeDOS installed, not linux installed.

Configuring a 14.1 laptop the way I'm looking at one of the Linux vendors in the database here at Lxer comes to $1629 at Dell

At the Linux vendor (alvio) with pre-installed fedora core, it comes to $1402.64. http://www.alvio.com/xABK_CID748_intel_custom_notebooks.aspx

I would save $226.36 by not getting a Dell, dude.
number6x: That's fine for me. Better than links to Windows pages. Remember that Dell isn't selling any Linux pc's at all to consumers now, so the FreeDOS boxes are currently the best thing it has to offer Linux folk.

If, in that case, Dell should be running Linux ads at all is another (valid) question, but hey, it's not *my* ad budget :-)

Really?

When I Google for "linux computer" a Dell sponsored link is still the first to appear. And it still goes to the windows offerings.
When I google for the exact phrase (Google speak in advanced search) "linux desktops" I receive a hit for DELL Australia that takes me to

http://www1.ap.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx/deskt...

a Page that advertises DELL computers pre installed with Microsoft Windows Vista or Microsoft Windows XP, but narry a Linux offering in sight.
They do some good ones, too.

Google starts running Dell Linux Desktop ads

,----[ Quote ] | While working on my personal blog site, which happens to have Google | Adsense ads running on it, I was surprised to find Google ads for | Linux-powered Dell desktops showing up. `----

http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS6557150707.html

Dell is still anti Linux

Dell is still "advertising" Linux and spamming us with MS Windows.

This page image was taken 5/13/2007

http://www.flickr.com/photos/67085308@N00/496890631/

The "Dell Linux Desktop" link went here to MS Windows Vista machines.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/67085308@N00/496872232/

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/odg/odg_spe...

I view this as blatant false advertising.





cyber_rigger, I am not so sure it is intentional. I think there is more to it than meets the eye. Having been the victim of people putting words in mouth, I am not so quick to accuse of wrongdoing. However, I will see what else I can learn about this issue.
>I am not so sure it is intentional.

Intentional or not, this is misleading.

What if Dell advertised "Mac" or "Apple" instead of Linux?

Would Mr. Jobs care?

"Linux" is a copyrighted trademark, which in my opinion, Dell is infringing upon. Read this part,

Quoting: WHEREAS, LMI was established and assigned rights by Mr. Torvalds for the express purpose of holding and exercising the exclusive right (a) to sublicense the use of the Trademark and goodwill to individuals and entities in order to protect the right of responsible persons to use the Trademark in connection with Authorized Goods/Services (as defined herein), and (b) to otherwise act for the benefit of the Linux community with respect to the Trademark; and...
http://www.linuxmark.org/linux_sublicense.php

Note the word "and" before (b).
I think the difference here is that Dell can definitely make "Apple" and "Mac" negatives across the board. Otoh, Dell does in fact offer GNU/Linux on servers and corporate workstations. Now, I'm still not sure why they can't get the URL's correct. Still, I'll give Dell a little credit for at least working on the issue. Again, I'll spend some time this week looking into the issue a little further.
>Still, I'll give Dell a little credit for at least working on the issue.

I think the problem has to do with segmentation (yes, like an annelid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annelida, Dell is notably segmented). An over-simple possible explanation:

The source of the misleading ads I have seen is the "Consumer" segment.

The Dell Linux systems are mainly sold (as of now) by the "Business" segment.

The business systems are validated for various SLES and/or RHEL versions.

The new Ubuntu-loaded systems will be consumer systems.

SJVN's original article on this about the Google Dell Linux ads seemed to indicate that the ads were sort of a pre-sales sales pitch for the new consumer Ubuntu-installed systems; as in, the ads exist, but not the systems. Yet.

Dell's apparent reaction to our complaints is much like that of a doctor or a computer tech -- If it hurts when you click there, don't click there.

DC, JohnPatDell, in another thread, promised to try to fix this.

Since, in yet another thread, he asserted irrefutably that I lack the big picture, I cannot now say the one thing that would have made sense of this at the time: LOL.

For the others out there as naïve as I: To get this fixed it will take "forcing" (an amazing type of diplomacy that makes fixing hurt less than not yet still fails to be a CLM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CLM) the responsible party into fixing it, or escalating to their VP: ie, it is a management problem.

Even then, Magic 8 Ball http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_8_ball says the problem will take three months to two years to actually fix: I hope seven years experience inside of Dell at least gives me that much insight.

CR, we all agree your complaint as valid, but I disagree that "anti-linux" is the right term for the problem; I see it more as "typical corp anti-competence."
> DC, JohnPatDell, in another thread, promised to try to fix this.

I have been communicating directly with JPD on this issue. Hence my understanding that this is not something that can be easily fixed in a day or two. JPD informs me that the keyword search issue is problematic. As you noted, they are heavily segmented, apparently each major business unit having its own marketing authority. When you combine these two factors, it just ain't as simple as one might think.

And I agree with the corporate anti (or "in"?) competence.
Actually, HP seems to be having problems in this area as well. I did a seach that turned up an HP ad. I have e-mailed Google to ask questions about misleading advertising links.
>but I disagree that "anti-linux" is the right term for the problem.

I'll refine that to anti-desktop-Linux (protecting Microsoft's turf).

The bait-and-switch tactics are nothing new.

For years Dell and HP have played up their Linux involvement and then steered PC users away from Linux.

I have 3 categories so far:

1. The disappearing Linux choice on the configuration page.

2. Phone conversations. I remember sales people pretending to not know what Linux is -- on the same day their company got Google headlines for Linux server sales.

3. Linux ads that redirect to MS Windows pages.

I wish people would stop being apologists for these OEMs. Dell's desktop Linux hand needs to be called. I'll believe it when I see it.

BTW, Dell's Windows-spamming Linux ads occurred well BEFORE the ideastorm decision to offer desktop Linux. I first documented these misleading ads Sep 06, 2006 http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/23609/
>I wish people would stop being apologists for these OEMs.

That's OK. I wish people would graduate from the conspiracy nut world view and learn that there's a lot more stupidity, rigidity, bureaucracy, needless complexity, apathy, incompetence, and just plain frustration in the world than they give it credit for.

Large corporations, like government agencies, have it all in abundance. Even well-meaning and energetic individuals can get worn down by the reality of getting something done.

I remember the early days of my IT career, when GM bought EDS. They supposedly wanted to inject some of our git'r done outlook and esprit de corps into the giant automaker. Ross Perot described it as trying to teach an elephant to tap dance.

The GM folks thought they knew a lot more about business than those upstart EDSers, and Perot was ultimately bought out to the tune of $700 million.

GM continues to make stellar decisions.

Long winded way to say that the Dell folks might just be tryin' and failin'.
Latest Update: Google has just sent an initial response to my inquiries. My contact there is working on my questions.
>I wish people would graduate from the conspiracy nut world view and learn that there's a lot more stupidity, rigidity, bureaucracy, needless complexity, apathy, incompetence, and just plain frustration in the world than they give it credit for.

Are you saying that the two views are mutually exclusive? We have plenty of examples of Microsoft engaging in questionable business practices, and it also appears that MS is collapsing under its own bureaucratic weight. I don't know about Dell, but it's possible for both to be true.

(Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean nobody is out to get you.)
>I don't know about Dell, but it's possible for both to be true.

It absolutely possible for both to be true, but, in the absence of good evidence, you will be right far more often by assuming stupidity, laziness, or incompetence than conspiracy.
"never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence". I forgot who said that.
OK, so Wikipedia ain't like the Holy Grail of All Things Great and True, but, it chips in:

A similar quotation appears in Robert A. Heinlein's 1941 short story "Logic of Empire" ("You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity"),

and:

Observations on the sway of human error over malice occur in various works. Goethe's The Sorrows of Young Werther (1774) mentions "...misunderstandings and neglect create more confusion in this world than trickery and malice. At any rate, the last two are certainly much less frequent." Albert Einstein also believed in the power of stupidity: "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

Goethe... isn't he the one who stole the disk compression algorithm for DOS 6.0?
>BTW, Dell's Windows-spamming Linux ads occurred well BEFORE the ideastorm decision to offer desktop Linux. I first documented these misleading ads Sep 06, 2006 [HYPERLINK@lxer.com]

This I did not know. I apologize...

Post a comment

A free account is needed to post. Write your comment here first: your text is kept in this browser while you sign up or log in, and is waiting for you when you come back.

Your message:
|||||
10
Markdown: **bold**, *italic*, [text](https://link), - lists, > quotes, $x^2$ for math. Formatting help

Sign up and post (it is free)  or  Log in and post