Fear of competition?
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| techiem2 Oct 04, 2006 3:20 PM EDT |
Quoting:We are commmitted to the Windows platform. There are many alternatives to Microsoft Office on the Linux platform. It's all about flexibility and choice in that regard. We have a very successful product on the Mac side of things. Did he just admit that they're scared of the competition from the existing oss office products? |
| jimf Oct 04, 2006 4:18 PM EDT |
Naw, you must have MSunderstood that... |
| dcparris Oct 04, 2006 4:53 PM EDT |
> "It's all about flexibility and choice in that regard." Hmmm... Maybe we should pay him to do more interviews with mainstream press orgs. He can stay on at MS, we just want him to keep up the free advertising. You really can't beat such nice remarks from the competition. |
| Scott_Ruecker Oct 04, 2006 4:53 PM EDT |
>Naw, you must have MSunderstood that...< Good one Jim! Now if you were to ask him if he is concerned about competition "in that regard" I am sure he would say "No". But then that is what he is told to say anyway. Its not like you are ever going to be able to get any real opinion out of him. |
| nikkels Oct 04, 2006 6:04 PM EDT |
I don't think MS should try to bring Office to Linux. We have enough alphas and betas as it is and anyway, if it's going to take as long as Vista, who cares ? |
| jdixon Oct 04, 2006 6:28 PM EDT |
> and anyway, if it's going to take as long as Vista, who cares ? If you don't think MS has a working Linux port already, you're dreaming. |
| dcparris Oct 04, 2006 6:47 PM EDT |
> If you don't think MS has a working Linux port already, you're dreaming. As long as they promise not to share with the rest of us... |
| dek Oct 04, 2006 7:17 PM EDT |
>>As long as they promise not to share with the rest of us. Ooooh! One right in BG's kisser that was!! Good one!! Loved it! |
| jimf Oct 04, 2006 7:21 PM EDT |
> If you don't think MS has a working Linux port already, you're dreaming. Of course that will be open source :) |
| hkwint Oct 05, 2006 1:40 AM EDT |
Interesting to see, this MS chap has 'arguments' for everything he says, except when they ask about MS bugs being more severe, the chap answers "No" without explanation. To me, that's equal to confessing the bugs are more severe. |
| Teron Oct 05, 2006 4:12 AM EDT |
Who really wants Office anywhere? When practically every other Office suite on the platform is cheaper, from a more trustworthy source than Redmond, and supports ODF? |
| 1c3d0g Oct 05, 2006 4:15 AM EDT |
Exactly. OOo is just fine, thank you very much. OTOH, The Gimp still needs a lot of work to be on par with Photoshop. |
| jimf Oct 05, 2006 5:17 AM EDT |
1c3d0g, What version gimp are you using? Unless it's the latest 2.3.10, you may want to reevaluate that. |
| tuxtom Oct 05, 2006 8:18 AM EDT |
I prefer the Gimp to photoshop most of the time...familiarity, I suppose. It is widely acknowledged that Vista will be the last "BIG" (as in size and architecture) Windows shipment, and that the next "Windows" will need to stripped and re-engineered extensively. One of the reasons it is what it is is the old guard mindset, which is rapidly retiring away. My guess is they end up going the way of Mac OS X and having a *nix...or proprietary *nix-like core. MS manages to turn out some outstanding stuff at times (AJAX, .NET, C# in recent years). I wouldn't put it past them to come up with the next commercially viable advance in OS's. I know I am going to get slammed back with "they didn't invent it...they bought or stole their technologies". So did Linus Torvalds...he didn't "invent" the OS, he ported UNIX to x86. Ported = Stole? Bought = Stole? I know this makes you all cringe, but NOBODY out there using Linux for a Desktop signs any paychecks for anything that really makes a real difference in this world. Microsoft Windows is a far superior UI to anything I have every seen in the X world. The underlying OS has always been the problem for me. If I could run bash natively and have the same *nix toolset I would not have any reason to look anywhere else. KDE is cool...but STILL can't even remotely compare to the polish and stability of MS Windows. I would really look forward to MS Windows X. |
| Sander_Marechal Oct 05, 2006 8:39 AM EDT |
Ajax? MS Invented Ajax? Not even MS themselves are claiming they invented Ajax! :-) This is going to keep me giggling for hours now.... |
| alc Oct 05, 2006 9:00 AM EDT |
[I know this makes you all cringe, but NOBODY out there using Linux for a Desktop signs any paychecks for anything that really makes a real difference in this world.] How would you define makes a real difference? |
| nalf38 Oct 05, 2006 9:30 AM EDT |
@tuxtom: "If I could run bash natively and have the same *nix toolset I would not have any reason to look anywhere else. " Those services already exist for the MS platform, for free, provided by MS. I haven't used them, but I hear they run quite well. I disagree on your comment about the 'polish and stability of MS Windows.' KDE is a much better interface than the standard Win2k/XP UI...at least in my opinion. Doubtful that MS will do the old-school thing and harken back to the *nix core, since they are already testing an extremely high-performance experimental kernel called Singularity. They'll probably go back to the drawing board with Singularity at the bottom and build on that. All that said, I don't really care. For me, KDE/GNU/Linux is better and (cheaper) than any experience I've ever had on the Windows platform. |
| jimf Oct 05, 2006 9:46 AM EDT |
tomtom said: > the next "Windows" will need to stripped and re-engineered extensively They had 6 years to work on it and this one's buggier than ever. so you expect them to get the next one right how???... Oh yeah, steal it from elsewhere. Well, that's pretty much what they've done so far, buy, steal, and they still haven't produced an enterprise worthy desktop. People who 'matter' are turning away from MS in droves. Oh... and, Linux isn't a port of anything. It is similar in concept to Unix, but separate thing altogether. Just ask Sun who's been trying to unsuccessfully prove infringements forever. Next time do some homework, or, just read anything more profound than 'Dick and Jane see spot roll over'. > the polish and stability of MS Windows ROFL... Everyone's entitled to an opinion, I guess, even if it's influenced by drinking way too much spiked cool aid. Remember, as you travel down the yellow brick road, even a turd will gleam if it's polished enough, just don't break it open. |
| herzeleid Oct 05, 2006 9:49 AM EDT |
Quoting: tuxtom: I know this makes you all cringe, but NOBODY out there using Linux for a Desktop signs any paychecks for anything that really makes a real difference in this world. Sorry to rain on your parade sonny, but have you ever heard of Novell? IBM? Oracle? |
| tuxtom Oct 05, 2006 2:39 PM EDT |
First, let me say that my previous post was intentionally provocative. I have been an avid Linux evangelist since '97. However, I gave up religion (not Linux). When I first joined LXER it was a Linux board. It has steadily degraded into a FOSS-Taliban cult. It is hard to read anything useful through the reverse-FUD and MS bashing. sander: Microsoft pioneered XMLHttpRequest...without that "AJAX" as it is hyped today would still be called DHTML. (In fact MOST of what is called AJAX today is nothing more than DHTML: javascript, html and css and doesn't even tap XMLHttpRequest.) alc: A real difference means name 1 person who lives on your street, in your neighborhood, in your town, that has his paycheck signed by someone who uses Linux for a desktop. Bottom line is that anything non-Windows is insignificant in the big Desktop picture. For engineering and development, sure…that is what I prefer to use myself. nalf38: Thanks for the insight. I, too, use KDE. But it is not as stable as XP…as much as I want it to be. BTW: with the Pirate Bay everything free. Even non-free Linux Distros and Linux software. The only reason to pay is if you want support. jimf: Are you insane? MS Windows IS the standard by which Enterprise Desktops are judged. And clearly nothing else has come out that can remotely compete with it or it would not have the market share that it has. The facts speak for themselves. Who else makes and "Enterprise Worthy Desktop"? “People who 'matter' are turning away from MS in droves.” Who is that, jimf. Where are the “droves”. People posting on LXER? Every office I step foot into in this country is using Windows. I’m not talking about the datacenters…that is not the object of my post. I’m not drinking Kool Aid…apparently you are. Linux is a copy of UNIX on x86. WIthout a UNIX to copy, there would be no Linux, so if you are going to say that Microsoft "steals", then you are going to have to say that Linus "stole". We are no talking "code"...we are talking ideas. herzeleid: Novell, IBM, Oracle? They have all STOLEN…for their own profit…to a degree that makes Microsoft look like SAINTS....and Microsoft made them all what they are today. If they are using Linux on the Desktop internally, it is 99.999% marketing ploy (engineering teams aside), and MOST crucial business functions will be using XP on their Desktops: I'll bet you the big bosses all run XP (or Mac OS X if they are computer illiterate.) I'll virtually guarantee that all the CFO's use XP and Microsoft Excel. Microsoft desktops make the world go ‘round, just like *NIX servers make the world go ‘round. And it will stay that way for our lifetimes no matter how much we don’t like it and want it to change. You can come up with all the new desktops you want and Microsoft will still be the #1 Desktop because that is just the way it is. Denial is a river in Egypt. That being said, you can still use KDE if you want...the world just isn't necessarily gonna follow you...kinda like riding your bike to work. (That is a brilliant anaolgy if I say so myself!) |
| Sander_Marechal Oct 05, 2006 2:53 PM EDT |
> A real difference means name 1 person who lives on your street, in your neighborhood, in your town, that has his paycheck signed by someone who uses Linux for a desktop. I can name you about 40 if you really want me to. Our head IT support uses Ubuntu Dapper for a desktop. |
| herzeleid Oct 05, 2006 3:07 PM EDT |
Quoting: tuxtom: Microsoft desktops make the world go ‘round Maybe your world - not the world I live and work in. Say, you're a microsoft evangelist, right? |
| alc Oct 05, 2006 3:09 PM EDT |
I sign $70,000 - $80,000 every week for payroll.(I'm part owner of a construction co.)We do have window's on some machines,but my desktop & laptop are Linux.It can be done and I'm sure I'm not the only one. |
| herzeleid Oct 05, 2006 3:12 PM EDT |
Quoting: tuxtom: MOST crucial business functions will be using XP on their Desktops:Why on earth would they do that? Just so they can be subject to viruses, spyware, worms, popups, blue screens? Oh, yes, they'll make sure and run all the really crucial stuff on windoze, that's a great plan. BTW the Novell guy sitting in the next cube had a good laugh over that one... |
| jimf Oct 05, 2006 4:01 PM EDT |
> I, too, use KDE. But it is not as stable as XP… You got to be kiding! I've run both, and XP is nowhere near as stable. That's not even getting into the problems with security, and, then there's that awful interface... > jimf: Are you insane? MS Windows IS the standard by which Enterprise Desktops are judged. That certainly says nothing about the standard for Enterprise. So far, everything that MS has produced has been buggy, bloated, and insecure. If that's what companies want for Enterprise, then so be it. you say you've walked into offices., well so have I. The dissatisfaction with MS behavior, and the dismay at the poor performance of MS products is amazing. Almost all that I've talked to are looking to do 'anything' to get away from the MS garbage. If they don't already have a plan in place to switch to Linux, then, they are certainly looking at the option. If nothing else, the cost differential has them already sold. > The facts speak for themselves The facts??? If you mean your opinion I don't think so. 'avid Linux evangelist' ??? Looks to me that MS is taking Linux more seriously than you are. > Linux is a copy of UNIX on x86. I seriously suggest that you submit your resume to Sun Legal. I'm sure they would appreciate your point of view, and, your attitude. While I'm sure that MS will continue to be a force in the workplace for a long while, the idea of it's continued dominance isn't what I see at all. Open Source is the future and MS may very well be a causality of that. Believe that or continue to ride your donkey to work, doesn't much matter to me. I was intending on answering all of this, but, it's obviously senseless to try to respond to cool aid induced ravings. Good luck on your recovery. |
| hkwint Oct 05, 2006 4:16 PM EDT |
Quoting:Microsoft desktops make the world go ‘round, just like *NIX servers make the world go ‘round. And it will stay that way for our lifetimes no matter how much we don’t like it and want it to change. Sorry, but that's something I can't, won't and don't believe. In my opinion, it isn't Linux that is stopping Microsoft the hardest. It's Microsoft itself. Go read some of their licenses, especially WMPlayer 11 and Vista. Think about their disrespect for their own customers and the laws. Think about all the guys with brains leaving Redmond. Think about the lack of quality of their software. Think about their failed strategy concerning Internet. Think about public opinion (MS being almost the least trustworthy brandmark). Think about MS throwing their money away via SCO. Think about MS software becoming so complex, even MS can't handle it anymore. The design of Windows dates back from the seventies. Windows is written in a programming language that's decades old. Look at how less the desktop changed since Win95. The sword is two-edged: If somebody walks away from MS because they are tired of it, they can almost only convert their stuff to Linux. Although BSD has a better design and the quality of their software is better in my opinion, it's not doable to work with. You only think of the USA by the way (the situation in the EU is different, though the Europe is much the same like the USA). Look at what's going on in China. Over a hundred million of farmers over there are going to work with Linux. Look at the $100 dollar laptop project. Million of kids will only know how to work with Linux. Imagine how much it will cost for them to convert to Windows. Keep in mind: A migration from Lin to Win will cost MUCH more than a conversion the other way around. Think about that kids being cheap programmers, and thinking totally different from a bunch of spoiled rich American industry leaders. Think about hardware only becoming cheaper and cheaper. Think about the MS vendetta against pirates. Think about the people with pirated versions of Vista which will have a computer that stops working after some time. Think about how more and more drivers are becoming available for Linux. Look at how much Linux became better the last five years. Imagine Linux growing in the same pace the coming five years. Than multiply that pace, because more people will work with it, and more people will be giving money for it, and more people will complain about MS licenses and its anti-piracy measures. Look at how governments become more and more aware of how they are locked in to MS products, and demand in their tenders that open source products will have priority over closed source products. The great amount of work and delays Munich put in its conversion, only shows how much they were locked in. It reminds me of the comparison between the big truck and the sports car. The big truck is driving 80kmph and has a head of one kilometer to the sports car. The sports car is driving 130kmph. Once the sports car is fifty meters behind the big truck, people might say the sports car can never pass the big truck, because the big truck has always lead and is too heavy to pass, and the sports car is very small compared to the big truck. That's just a stupid way to think. The truck might crash or get of the road, it might be out of fuel, anything could happen. Only stepping on the gas won't help the big truck. And it's just too big and heavy to change it's direction if it would be heading for the wrong one. I don't see how Windows can also be the Desktop of the coming generation. |
| jdixon Oct 05, 2006 5:58 PM EDT |
> It is widely acknowledged that Vista will be the last "BIG" (as in size and architecture) Windows shipment, and that the next "Windows" will need to stripped and re-engineered extensively. Microsoft has been promising to "rewrite Windows from the ground up" (and claiming to have done so) since Windows 95. What makes you think the next version will be any different? Oh, you remember thate wmf vulnerability from a while back? From memory, it went all the way back to Windows 3.1. I'd take any talk of re-engineering Windows with all the salt at Bonneville. > KDE is cool...but STILL can't even remotely compare to the polish and stability of MS Windows. You actually used stability and Windows in the same sentence? What planet are you from? It's certainly not this one. Others have answered your other comments better than I could, so I'll stop here. |
| jezuch Oct 06, 2006 3:15 AM EDT |
Quoting:That certainly says nothing about the standard for Enterprise. So far, everything that MS has produced has been buggy, bloated, and insecure. If that's what companies want for Enterprise, then so be it. Enterprise, you say?... http://thedailywtf.com/forums/thread/74783.aspx |
| jimf Oct 06, 2006 3:46 AM EDT |
> Enterprise, you say?... Oh my!... You mean that all these years my interpretation of 'Enterprise worthy' has been wrong? It really should be buggy, bloated, and insecure stuff.... I apologize guys. |
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