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5 Unique Tips for New Ubuntu Users
I've seen an influx of people dusting off Mandrake (that's right, Mandrake not Mandriva...we're talking pre-name change) and Red Hat 7.2 disks and firing off questions in forums about how to do various things in Linux. Renewed interest in alterntives to Microsoft coupled with big headlines for Ubuntu means many new users are examining Ubuntu when they evaluate (or re-evaluate) the state of Linux. This being said, I have 5 Tips for New Ubuntu Users that you won't hear anywhere else. |
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Comments (38)
Scallywag.
I've got to agree with you sal.
While I'm certainly no fan of Ubuntu, this just seems to be a Ubuntu put down followed by a thinly veiled plug for PCLos. Nothing to base an article on.
While I'm certainly no fan of Ubuntu, this just seems to be a Ubuntu put down followed by a thinly veiled plug for PCLos. Nothing to base an article on.
@ sal
Scallawag? well, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I don't feel I'm boisterous or disruptive in this article...so I don't feel I fit the bill for you label. For other recent articles I've written that don't involve Ubuntu...just look back in the blog for 2-3 days. Plenty there.
http://linux-blog.org/index.php?/archives/155-Statistics-and... http://linux-blog.org/index.php?/archives/156-LinuxWorld-Pow...
For the record, I'm not anti Ubuntu. I use Ubuntu at work as a document repository server. I use Kubuntu at home on a dual boot SuSe 10.1 machine. I love Linux and open source. I just HATE it when no one stops to consider that other distros out there may fit new users better than Ubuntu. NEW USERS. That's what I'm speaking of. Not people who have a vast technical background or a huge base of experience in Windows...we're talking the 50 year old grandma down the street. In my opinion, Ubuntu has not been critically evaluated (because people are too busy shouting hooray! and praising all its splendor) for problems it has.
It's kinda like something that happened in the 1990's (circa 1991) in the United States in music. Everyone...and I mean everyone...loved Vanilla Ice. I didn't. I wondered what the hell everyone was talking about and didn't jump that bandwagon.
So, I felt it was time to examine where Ubuntu may fall short for the new user. I encouraged people to try other distros such as arch, foresight, Xandros, Linspire, Kanotix, PCLOS, and MEPIS. I don't see how this is a bad thing? It's definately not mischievous.
As far as point 4: The point I was trying to make in this instance is that choice was taken away from the new user. They didn't get that opportunity to choose if it was there...and they have some work ahead of them to find out how to put it back.
Point 2: I know of users who still don't know how to type the URL in Internet Explorer. Hell, they don't even know what IE is when I ask them about it. If I ask them about a Browser, they don't know what I'm talking about. It's these same people that can STILL use Windows because it is easier for them. Most people want to plug and play everything. Until Linux is like this, I don't feel it will be a viable replacement for Windows on the desktops of users like this. It's a viable replacement for many tech savvy people, but that hits a small percentage of us. If we want the Linux desktop to arrive...we have to cater to people like this. That means, no shell action. If you disagree, you're not in touch with the reality of users like that I mentioned above.
MEPIS "official" latest release is still not based on Ubuntu...only release candidates...so I'm still 100% accurate. Once the next full release comes out I'll be wrong...Possibly. Since I haven't downloaded the latest release and tried it out, I don't know. I know warren is fond of pinning apt sources to mepis repositories...so it is possible that he will yet again have 1-2 click installs of nvidia and ati. Seems silly for him to take a step back now doesn't it?
Jimf,
I used nothing but facts to write this article. The only reason PCLOS is mentioned more than twice is to compliment it on its New User Guide. We're very proud of that accomplishment and I feel that it is unique in the open source world...almost unparalleled. Otherwise, it would have been mentioned just as much as other distros I talked about in there such as MEPIS, Kanotix, and Xandros. There's no 'thinly vield plug' existing on my page. Perhaps it exists in your imagination and from what you know about me as a person.
Read the whole commentScallawag? well, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I don't feel I'm boisterous or disruptive in this article...so I don't feel I fit the bill for you label. For other recent articles I've written that don't involve Ubuntu...just look back in the blog for 2-3 days. Plenty there.
http://linux-blog.org/index.php?/archives/155-Statistics-and... http://linux-blog.org/index.php?/archives/156-LinuxWorld-Pow...
For the record, I'm not anti Ubuntu. I use Ubuntu at work as a document repository server. I use Kubuntu at home on a dual boot SuSe 10.1 machine. I love Linux and open source. I just HATE it when no one stops to consider that other distros out there may fit new users better than Ubuntu. NEW USERS. That's what I'm speaking of. Not people who have a vast technical background or a huge base of experience in Windows...we're talking the 50 year old grandma down the street. In my opinion, Ubuntu has not been critically evaluated (because people are too busy shouting hooray! and praising all its splendor) for problems it has.
It's kinda like something that happened in the 1990's (circa 1991) in the United States in music. Everyone...and I mean everyone...loved Vanilla Ice. I didn't. I wondered what the hell everyone was talking about and didn't jump that bandwagon.
So, I felt it was time to examine where Ubuntu may fall short for the new user. I encouraged people to try other distros such as arch, foresight, Xandros, Linspire, Kanotix, PCLOS, and MEPIS. I don't see how this is a bad thing? It's definately not mischievous.
As far as point 4: The point I was trying to make in this instance is that choice was taken away from the new user. They didn't get that opportunity to choose if it was there...and they have some work ahead of them to find out how to put it back.
Point 2: I know of users who still don't know how to type the URL in Internet Explorer. Hell, they don't even know what IE is when I ask them about it. If I ask them about a Browser, they don't know what I'm talking about. It's these same people that can STILL use Windows because it is easier for them. Most people want to plug and play everything. Until Linux is like this, I don't feel it will be a viable replacement for Windows on the desktops of users like this. It's a viable replacement for many tech savvy people, but that hits a small percentage of us. If we want the Linux desktop to arrive...we have to cater to people like this. That means, no shell action. If you disagree, you're not in touch with the reality of users like that I mentioned above.
MEPIS "official" latest release is still not based on Ubuntu...only release candidates...so I'm still 100% accurate. Once the next full release comes out I'll be wrong...Possibly. Since I haven't downloaded the latest release and tried it out, I don't know. I know warren is fond of pinning apt sources to mepis repositories...so it is possible that he will yet again have 1-2 click installs of nvidia and ati. Seems silly for him to take a step back now doesn't it?
Jimf,
I used nothing but facts to write this article. The only reason PCLOS is mentioned more than twice is to compliment it on its New User Guide. We're very proud of that accomplishment and I feel that it is unique in the open source world...almost unparalleled. Otherwise, it would have been mentioned just as much as other distros I talked about in there such as MEPIS, Kanotix, and Xandros. There's no 'thinly vield plug' existing on my page. Perhaps it exists in your imagination and from what you know about me as a person.
devnet
I do you hope I didn't come over as attacking you. I wasn't. Damn this impersonal typing! I like your style 99% of the time (though you do post negatively about Ubuntu a lot). There's nothing personal going on from my end. Just thought a couple of things needed saying. For the record, Suse and Fedora don't install the compiler stuff either, in fact, I can't think of a single distro, with the possible exception of slackware (and then only if you choose "Install Everything") that does. Debian maybe?
I'm not questioning your commitment to OSS, I wouldn't dare (unless you stared posting that noobs ought to stick to Windows).
I did try to re-edit my initial post to add that scallywag has connotations of "lovable rogue" to it but for some reason the browser crashed and then time ran out and I had to be elsewhere. All of which is easy to say after the fact, but tis true.
No offense intended and a great big apology if offense was taken.
Distro-politics is a slippery trap, easy to fall into and hard to get out of. Ubuntu makes me uneasy, a ridiculous reaction really. I really do want to see Linux succeed and I do wonder why I react as I do to the success Ubuntu has found. I have to keep reminding myself at times that, in my own words, "it's enough to use Linux", even if I would prefer the world used my personal favourite (which I also have to admit is a changeable thing).
I'm currently running SuSE 10.1, a bit of a blow after several happy months on Slackware (it's a work thing), though I have to admit, SuSE 10.1 is whole heap better than 9.x. They might even get somewhere with this release.
Read the whole commentI do you hope I didn't come over as attacking you. I wasn't. Damn this impersonal typing! I like your style 99% of the time (though you do post negatively about Ubuntu a lot). There's nothing personal going on from my end. Just thought a couple of things needed saying. For the record, Suse and Fedora don't install the compiler stuff either, in fact, I can't think of a single distro, with the possible exception of slackware (and then only if you choose "Install Everything") that does. Debian maybe?
I'm not questioning your commitment to OSS, I wouldn't dare (unless you stared posting that noobs ought to stick to Windows).
I did try to re-edit my initial post to add that scallywag has connotations of "lovable rogue" to it but for some reason the browser crashed and then time ran out and I had to be elsewhere. All of which is easy to say after the fact, but tis true.
No offense intended and a great big apology if offense was taken.
Distro-politics is a slippery trap, easy to fall into and hard to get out of. Ubuntu makes me uneasy, a ridiculous reaction really. I really do want to see Linux succeed and I do wonder why I react as I do to the success Ubuntu has found. I have to keep reminding myself at times that, in my own words, "it's enough to use Linux", even if I would prefer the world used my personal favourite (which I also have to admit is a changeable thing).
I'm currently running SuSE 10.1, a bit of a blow after several happy months on Slackware (it's a work thing), though I have to admit, SuSE 10.1 is whole heap better than 9.x. They might even get somewhere with this release.
Quoting:though you do post negatively about Ubuntu a lot
Yeah...I do quite a bit. It irks me that people get roasted alive for bringing any criticism to ubuntu...it's almost like it is the golden child of Linux and cannot be touched. I hate that...no distro should be above constructive criticism.
BTW...No offense taken. I about spit out my orange juice this morning when I read it (made me laugh quite a bit). I wished you could have changed it to Swashbuckler. Then I could have donned a patch and shouted Arrrrr! at everyone :D
Crap, they're roasting me alive on my blog comments though. Odd. I'm just trying to help new users of Linux decide what's best for them. Many new users don't even realize that Ubuntu ISN'T the only Linux flavor out there. Very sad times we live in.
Unfortunately I suspect that widespread support for Linux will only come from the hardware vendors and the big software houses when one distro is clearly going to be "the lead distro". For all the obvious, if wearisome, economic reasons.
Ubuntu is in a prime position to be this, or at least it appears to be. Novell obviously are trying really hard to make SuSE into this distro.
Are there any others in the position to take the lead in this way?
And should we support this idea and get behind one distro in particular to this end, sacrificing, if necessary, our own particular personal preferences for the "greater good"? (Even though this would inevitably lead to some commercial distros falling by the way side).
Are there any others in the position to take the lead in this way?
And should we support this idea and get behind one distro in particular to this end, sacrificing, if necessary, our own particular personal preferences for the "greater good"? (Even though this would inevitably lead to some commercial distros falling by the way side).
Sal,
I really dig Novell and Suse...mainly because they're always looking for ways to improve the user _experience_ as opposed to just adding more bells and whistles. There was a podcast on Suse 10.1 a while back that was on novell.com that showed the main developers (can't remember their names right now) showing off the new UI and how it improved the user performance. Loved it. Thought it was fantastic and that they REALLY were in touch with how a desktop should be.
Each release of Ubuntu doesn't convince me of this. Each release of SuSe does. That's why If I had to choose a distro as the poster child, I'd want Suse to be it.
I really dig Novell and Suse...mainly because they're always looking for ways to improve the user _experience_ as opposed to just adding more bells and whistles. There was a podcast on Suse 10.1 a while back that was on novell.com that showed the main developers (can't remember their names right now) showing off the new UI and how it improved the user performance. Loved it. Thought it was fantastic and that they REALLY were in touch with how a desktop should be.
Each release of Ubuntu doesn't convince me of this. Each release of SuSe does. That's why If I had to choose a distro as the poster child, I'd want Suse to be it.
> golden child of Linux
Well, that's certainly the hype, and it would sometimes appear that's the only fully functional aspect of it. I'm just afraid that any rational criticism is made nearly impossible by the cult followers. It's just viewed as 'negative press'. Or justified by stuff like 'well, Debian has problems too'. What a crock, but the cult believes it.
Well, that's certainly the hype, and it would sometimes appear that's the only fully functional aspect of it. I'm just afraid that any rational criticism is made nearly impossible by the cult followers. It's just viewed as 'negative press'. Or justified by stuff like 'well, Debian has problems too'. What a crock, but the cult believes it.
salparadise: >"And should we support this idea and get behind one distro in particular to this end, sacrificing, if necessary, our own particular personal preferences for the "greater good"?"
No, for there is no need for one lead distro. The OSDL is doing good work in working out standards which ease the worries of ISVs, which in turn eases the worries of retailers. Novell, Red Hat and others are doing good work in getting hardware makers to understand the advantages of turning over driver work to the kernel developers.
A lot of businesses just move with glacial speed. That's not unreasonable when you consider that established businesses can jeopardize a lot of jobs and bottom line by making bold, quick moves into new markets. It generally takes a few startups to dive in and accumulate some statistics before older companies begin to move.
No, for there is no need for one lead distro. The OSDL is doing good work in working out standards which ease the worries of ISVs, which in turn eases the worries of retailers. Novell, Red Hat and others are doing good work in getting hardware makers to understand the advantages of turning over driver work to the kernel developers.
A lot of businesses just move with glacial speed. That's not unreasonable when you consider that established businesses can jeopardize a lot of jobs and bottom line by making bold, quick moves into new markets. It generally takes a few startups to dive in and accumulate some statistics before older companies begin to move.
> ith the possible exception of slackware (and then only if you choose "Install Everything")
Gcc is marked as add in the Slackware tag file, so if you select the d set at all, it's installed. You don't have to select the d set, of course.
Gcc is marked as add in the Slackware tag file, so if you select the d set at all, it's installed. You don't have to select the d set, of course.
I noticed that devnet tends to be negative about Ubuntu as well. Actually, I kind of expected to see devnet signed as the author even before I scrolled down to see the actual signature (and I didn't recognize it as devnets blog with the new design mind you). :)
I'd say it's OK. Someone's gotta tell new people that Ubuntu isn't all there is to GNU/Linux. Devnet promised five unique tips that noone will find anywhere else and he sure delivered on that. ;)
My take on Ubuntu? I think it's just a current torch bearer and in that sense we ought to support it, but of course, it shouldn't still be below the radar of construsctive criticism.
Just my 2c as they say. :)
I'd say it's OK. Someone's gotta tell new people that Ubuntu isn't all there is to GNU/Linux. Devnet promised five unique tips that noone will find anywhere else and he sure delivered on that. ;)
My take on Ubuntu? I think it's just a current torch bearer and in that sense we ought to support it, but of course, it shouldn't still be below the radar of construsctive criticism.
Just my 2c as they say. :)
scroo ubunut
7 earlier comments in the full thread.
> Debian+Ubuntu is stronger than Debian alone.
Much as I try to believe that, I'm not entirely convinced sbergman.
> "I hate Ubuntu" vibe
I certainly don't 'hate' Ubuntu, but I don't entirely trust them (mainly because of the Canonical connection) either.
Much as I try to believe that, I'm not entirely convinced sbergman.
> "I hate Ubuntu" vibe
I certainly don't 'hate' Ubuntu, but I don't entirely trust them (mainly because of the Canonical connection) either.
I use Dapper on a laptop and a desktop and had a few problems which were all solved by the first major update after release.
The great thing about linux is the choice and the huge community:
If Shuttleworth becomes a dick or the developers don't fix bugs dilligently enough I will switch to Debian also.
I think a lot of people have a problem with the disconnect that a multi-millionaire and a (huge) community based distro (Debian) provide. It just doesn't feel right to some. Personally I am more pragmatic than that.
Going forward I really think Ubuntu needs to take QA a lot more seriously. There was enough sloppyness in LTS to give me pause. The devs need to get on top of their bugzilla (launchpad) which has far too many bugs and not enough bugfixers. This is partially a result of success since it bespeaks a very big community but it also seems to bespeak a degree of lack of organization.
The great thing about linux is the choice and the huge community:
If Shuttleworth becomes a dick or the developers don't fix bugs dilligently enough I will switch to Debian also.
I think a lot of people have a problem with the disconnect that a multi-millionaire and a (huge) community based distro (Debian) provide. It just doesn't feel right to some. Personally I am more pragmatic than that.
Going forward I really think Ubuntu needs to take QA a lot more seriously. There was enough sloppyness in LTS to give me pause. The devs need to get on top of their bugzilla (launchpad) which has far too many bugs and not enough bugfixers. This is partially a result of success since it bespeaks a very big community but it also seems to bespeak a degree of lack of organization.
rico123: >"I think a lot of people have a problem with the disconnect that a multi-millionaire and a (huge) community based distro (Debian) provide. It just doesn't feel right to some."
I didn't get that feeling from reading the opinions from tuxchick2 and devnet. Their complaints appear to be nuts-and-bolts only, no philosophy or politics involved. It could be tied to dinotrac's observation about hardware or it could simply be that Ubuntu violated the 'least surprise' principle. Devnet's complaint about XFS and the installer seems to fit that one.
I didn't get that feeling from reading the opinions from tuxchick2 and devnet. Their complaints appear to be nuts-and-bolts only, no philosophy or politics involved. It could be tied to dinotrac's observation about hardware or it could simply be that Ubuntu violated the 'least surprise' principle. Devnet's complaint about XFS and the installer seems to fit that one.
grouch:
I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone in particular here based on their posts. I actually have that feeling myself sometimes and I have seen it expressed in a number of other places often. And I agree with a lot tuxchick2 has had to say on this issue (hence my last paragraph).
My post was trying as honestly as possible to figure out the pros and cons of the distro.
Must go back to Waco compound. Over and out.
I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone in particular here based on their posts. I actually have that feeling myself sometimes and I have seen it expressed in a number of other places often. And I agree with a lot tuxchick2 has had to say on this issue (hence my last paragraph).
My post was trying as honestly as possible to figure out the pros and cons of the distro.
Must go back to Waco compound. Over and out.
Grouch said: "Their complaints appear to be nuts-and-bolts only, no philosophy or politics involved."
Tuxchick2 said: "the fatly-funded peace luv n the beatles devs are just as whiny and unresponsive to bug reports as any other devs."
Nope. No philisophy or politics involved here.
Tuxchick2 said: "the fatly-funded peace luv n the beatles devs are just as whiny and unresponsive to bug reports as any other devs."
Nope. No philisophy or politics involved here.
sbergman27, I think dev attitudes are part and parcel of nuts-and-bolts. FOSS users are encouraged to file bug reports, but why bother if they're going to be ignored or crabbed at? What does it say about a distribution's attitude towards quality control when bug reports are not handled?
I don't have any especial gripe with Ubuntu, I think I complain impartially about everything :) I'm happy that lots of folks have not had major hassles with Ubuntu like I have- my experiences differ from theirs, and I feel like an antidote to all the excessive don't-worry-be-happy-hype is a good thing. It's a nice distro, but it still has a lot of wrinkles to iron out.
I don't have any especial gripe with Ubuntu, I think I complain impartially about everything :) I'm happy that lots of folks have not had major hassles with Ubuntu like I have- my experiences differ from theirs, and I feel like an antidote to all the excessive don't-worry-be-happy-hype is a good thing. It's a nice distro, but it still has a lot of wrinkles to iron out.
Tuxchick,
I have reported around 30 bugs on launchpad over the past 18 months and have had all of them attended to EVENTUALLY and resolved. I have also experienced smart arse comments by some developers (including the lead developer) which were not appreciated particularly given the "Code of Conduct".
Have you seen how many bugs they have there? 55,000 at last count. There are also a lot of bugreports which are "noise" because they are by newbies who are not providing enough relevant information. The signal to noise ratio there isn't good and it looks like some of the developers are getting a bit burnt out.
Given this and the issues associated with LTS (particularly the printing which was a dog's breakfast) they need to sort out their QA system quickly. This is particularly relevant given that the next release is "edgy" and on a very tight schedule.
Strikes me that if you combine 15 highly talented and well paid Debian developers with a huge newbie rich userbase you are going to have issues. I hope the communication channels within the community are up to the task here.
I have reported around 30 bugs on launchpad over the past 18 months and have had all of them attended to EVENTUALLY and resolved. I have also experienced smart arse comments by some developers (including the lead developer) which were not appreciated particularly given the "Code of Conduct".
Have you seen how many bugs they have there? 55,000 at last count. There are also a lot of bugreports which are "noise" because they are by newbies who are not providing enough relevant information. The signal to noise ratio there isn't good and it looks like some of the developers are getting a bit burnt out.
Given this and the issues associated with LTS (particularly the printing which was a dog's breakfast) they need to sort out their QA system quickly. This is particularly relevant given that the next release is "edgy" and on a very tight schedule.
Strikes me that if you combine 15 highly talented and well paid Debian developers with a huge newbie rich userbase you are going to have issues. I hope the communication channels within the community are up to the task here.
While the complaints do address the nuts-and-bolts (eventhough these nuts-and-bolts things don't happen to everyone), I think the key to the notion that the complaints are political/philosophical in nature stems from devnet's and others' repeated attacks on Ubuntu every time somebody says something good about it as well as from phrases like "fatly-funded peace luv n the beatles devs" and "all the excessive don't-worry-be-happy-hype".
Look at it this way (and this is just an example - this is not about pushing any particular political view): If someone has a problem with the way George Bush is handling the Iraq thing, they're more likely to be attacked for their views if they say "that right wing moron Bush has gotten us into a big ol' Republico-violence fest in Iraq" than if they say "the President has made some very poor decisions regarding Iraq placing us in a dangerous position there".
Look at it this way (and this is just an example - this is not about pushing any particular political view): If someone has a problem with the way George Bush is handling the Iraq thing, they're more likely to be attacked for their views if they say "that right wing moron Bush has gotten us into a big ol' Republico-violence fest in Iraq" than if they say "the President has made some very poor decisions regarding Iraq placing us in a dangerous position there".
oh, so now it's the colorful self-expression that's the problem, not the points raised. OK, I hereby issue a challenge: Dare to be dull! Cure insomnia!
Haw. As if. :)
Haw. As if. :)
Lol, SFN is no fun atall...
> If someone has a problem with the way George Bush is handling the Iraq thing, they're more likely to be attacked for their views if they say "that right wing moron Bush has gotten us into a big ol' Republico-violence fest in Iraq" than if they say "the President has made some very poor decisions regarding Iraq placing us in a dangerous position there".
Actually, that's probably a bad example. If you say the former, you can be dismissed as a left wing kook and all the right wing pundits will do is make fun of you. If you say the latter, you're asking for your statement to be taken seriously. It's only when the right wing attack squads take you seriously that they attack full force. This is, of course, only personal opinion formed from years of listening off and on to Rush and co.
Actually, that's probably a bad example. If you say the former, you can be dismissed as a left wing kook and all the right wing pundits will do is make fun of you. If you say the latter, you're asking for your statement to be taken seriously. It's only when the right wing attack squads take you seriously that they attack full force. This is, of course, only personal opinion formed from years of listening off and on to Rush and co.
richo123: >"Have you seen how many bugs they have there? 55,000 at last count. There are also a lot of bugreports which are "noise" because they are by newbies who are not providing enough relevant information. The signal to noise ratio there isn't good and it looks like some of the developers are getting a bit burnt out."
It sounds like they need someone to filter some of that noise before it gets to the developers. Get some thick-skinned, head-nurse type who can recognize the difference between a splinter and a skull fracture to do triage.
It sounds like they need someone to filter some of that noise before it gets to the developers. Get some thick-skinned, head-nurse type who can recognize the difference between a splinter and a skull fracture to do triage.
pechuly oil, birkenstocks and orange barrel...toss in an aromatic whiff of lilac incense and skunk, two quick stirs with a Robin Trower riff, then cross the Bridge of Sighs onto the corner of Haight/Ashbury...
for the three of you who smiled at this...
Well it's one, two three, what are we fightin' for. Don't ask me I don't give a damn, next stop is.....
We never escape it do we?
h
for the three of you who smiled at this...
Well it's one, two three, what are we fightin' for. Don't ask me I don't give a damn, next stop is.....
We never escape it do we?
h
> Yup too many damned hippies ;-)
Please, even hippies had more couth... These are cult members.
Please, even hippies had more couth... These are cult members.
...Five, six, seven, open up the pearly gates,
There ain't no time to wonder why,
Whoopee! We're all gonna die.
Thanks for the reminder, helios.
Sometimes, it takes a joke, a jingle, somebody willing to stand (or, in Rosa Parks' case, not willing to stand) to get a whole lot of people looking at something from a different perspective. Idealists, nutcases and just plain ornery people can change the world. Wouldn't it be a duller place without Don Quixote?
Thanks for the reminder, helios.
Sometimes, it takes a joke, a jingle, somebody willing to stand (or, in Rosa Parks' case, not willing to stand) to get a whole lot of people looking at something from a different perspective. Idealists, nutcases and just plain ornery people can change the world. Wouldn't it be a duller place without Don Quixote?
I belonged to the punk tribe.
At least the hippies had a vision of a better world, which is more than can be said for a lot of the other "youth movements". Putting flowers down the barrels of guns, especially guns pointed at you, is brave and visionary.
I've spent most of my adult life with hair halfway down my back, so I guess that makes me a hippy, though strictly speaking I'm too young (born in '64).
Yes, the world would be terribly dull without Don Quixote, not to mention Wavy Gravy.
Yes, the world would be terribly dull without Don Quixote, not to mention Wavy Gravy.
Quoting:political/philosophical in nature stems from devnet's and others' repeated attacks on Ubuntu
Repeated attacks? Since when did pointing out shortcomings become an attack? Plus, I've been "attacking" as you say (bringing to light as I say) issues with Ubuntu as they might be seen from a new user perspective or for the new user.
My blog is one of the first stops when people do a search for "linux blog" [url=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=linux blog&btnG=Google Search]http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=linux blog&btnG=Google ...[/url]
So I tend to think that I have the ear of the new linux user who may want to see what other linux users blog about. This is why I always make sure that when I'm writing an article about Ubuntu, I try to address things that the new user would want to know.
Many of them just hear "yay Ubuntu" from every nook of the information superhighway (thanks for inventing it Al!) that they tend to think it will be everything to everyone. I like to bring it down a notch by trying to bring into light some of the things that new users may want to think about before trying it. In fact, if you do a quick search, you'll see all of my Ubuntu posts (except for my @ work category) address Ubuntu in this way: [url=http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site:linux-blog.org ubuntu&btnG=Google Search]http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site:linux-blog.org ubu...[/url]
That's three main posts about Ubuntu since 5.04...so repeated attacks is a bit of a stretch. I'd say I'm a skeptic as to why people are so taken with Ubuntu based upon my experience with it...which is all any of us really should base our opinions on...our own experience and not the experience of others.
If I could please...a few things caught my eye.
***It sounds like they need someone to filter some of that noise before it gets to the developers. Get some thick-skinned, head-nurse type who can recognize the difference between a splinter and a skull fracture to do triage......"
Someone wanna get Mr, I've-been-in-space-cause-I'm-rich-and-it-gets-me-(ahem)-attended-to on the phone and pass this nugget along to him? That is, if you can get him away from his mammary collection long enough to listen. No gratuitous backside kissing involved here grouch, your reasoning is brilliant. Having the immeasurable privilege of not belonging to that inner circle, I am only guessing when I state that the devs behave as such jerks cause they are a wee friggin' bit overwhelmed. How long has Markbuntu been number one on distro watch? Oh yeah, I remember now, since 8 weeks before it was ever conceived. I think grouch might have put his finger on it. Your subjection of the problem indicates to me that you have tangent thinking abilities. Didn't you and I meet at Tim Leary's place outside of Berkley in 68? You would remember the gathering well. God was there.
***I'd say I'm a skeptic as to why people are so taken with Ubuntu based upon my experience with it...which is all any of us really should base our opinions on...our own experience and not the experience of others........"
Dang, two bingo's in a row. After reading all the hype about Ubuntu, I was mentally prepared to put the same effort into promoting Ubuntu as I did (and still do) in promoting PCLinuxOS. Two things dampened my enthusiasm. (1)My 7 attempts to use Ubuntu mirrored Carla's results and (2)the terrible mistake of mass luring new Linux Users into the Ubuntu Web. I personally know two people who are permanently damaged by the Ubuntu Experience. They have both built shrines to Bill Gates within their respective homes and the prayer sessions can last for hours. Medication and therapy is aiding their recovery, but there seems to be a violent relapse when either of them are exposed to a particular shade of brown. Ubuntu Sux, No it doesn't, yes it does, no it doesn't...If anyone sees a ticker across the bottom of Fox News resolving the spat, let me know. I will post it immediately. Oh, and for the record, so there is no ambiguities...Ubuntu sux.
(the obligatory bet hedging by helios) Woodford may have hit it out of the park with his Mepis/Ubuntu breeding. I am running the beta on the test machine now and I gotta say, it is truly impressive. As curious as it is welcome, even the half-finished Xara-LX is included. The Ubuntu concept is great, as are the stated goals...it's just not working out the way I believe they wanted it to. Cross-reference grouch suggestion. We as a community seem to be taking two steps forward, one step back, and the official answer is NO...this is not the year of Linux. However is IS the year of the Distro. Magnificent improvements and innovations are being made and at a dizzying rate. I offer as evidence, Elive, VectorLInux (standard and SOHO) The mepis/Ubuntu Effort by Warren, Startcom, (yes, Startcom. check them out, especially their multimedia distro. This is the best distro no one has ever heard about. And Finally, Ubuntu. I think Ubuntu will pull it together this year and all of our bitching/musing/unconrolled sobbing will be moot.
h
Read the whole comment***It sounds like they need someone to filter some of that noise before it gets to the developers. Get some thick-skinned, head-nurse type who can recognize the difference between a splinter and a skull fracture to do triage......"
Someone wanna get Mr, I've-been-in-space-cause-I'm-rich-and-it-gets-me-(ahem)-attended-to on the phone and pass this nugget along to him? That is, if you can get him away from his mammary collection long enough to listen. No gratuitous backside kissing involved here grouch, your reasoning is brilliant. Having the immeasurable privilege of not belonging to that inner circle, I am only guessing when I state that the devs behave as such jerks cause they are a wee friggin' bit overwhelmed. How long has Markbuntu been number one on distro watch? Oh yeah, I remember now, since 8 weeks before it was ever conceived. I think grouch might have put his finger on it. Your subjection of the problem indicates to me that you have tangent thinking abilities. Didn't you and I meet at Tim Leary's place outside of Berkley in 68? You would remember the gathering well. God was there.
***I'd say I'm a skeptic as to why people are so taken with Ubuntu based upon my experience with it...which is all any of us really should base our opinions on...our own experience and not the experience of others........"
Dang, two bingo's in a row. After reading all the hype about Ubuntu, I was mentally prepared to put the same effort into promoting Ubuntu as I did (and still do) in promoting PCLinuxOS. Two things dampened my enthusiasm. (1)My 7 attempts to use Ubuntu mirrored Carla's results and (2)the terrible mistake of mass luring new Linux Users into the Ubuntu Web. I personally know two people who are permanently damaged by the Ubuntu Experience. They have both built shrines to Bill Gates within their respective homes and the prayer sessions can last for hours. Medication and therapy is aiding their recovery, but there seems to be a violent relapse when either of them are exposed to a particular shade of brown. Ubuntu Sux, No it doesn't, yes it does, no it doesn't...If anyone sees a ticker across the bottom of Fox News resolving the spat, let me know. I will post it immediately. Oh, and for the record, so there is no ambiguities...Ubuntu sux.
(the obligatory bet hedging by helios) Woodford may have hit it out of the park with his Mepis/Ubuntu breeding. I am running the beta on the test machine now and I gotta say, it is truly impressive. As curious as it is welcome, even the half-finished Xara-LX is included. The Ubuntu concept is great, as are the stated goals...it's just not working out the way I believe they wanted it to. Cross-reference grouch suggestion. We as a community seem to be taking two steps forward, one step back, and the official answer is NO...this is not the year of Linux. However is IS the year of the Distro. Magnificent improvements and innovations are being made and at a dizzying rate. I offer as evidence, Elive, VectorLInux (standard and SOHO) The mepis/Ubuntu Effort by Warren, Startcom, (yes, Startcom. check them out, especially their multimedia distro. This is the best distro no one has ever heard about. And Finally, Ubuntu. I think Ubuntu will pull it together this year and all of our bitching/musing/unconrolled sobbing will be moot.
h
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Point 1 - agreed, Ubuntu is not the only distro out there and there may well be better choices for "new users".
Point 2 - hmmmm, AFAIK, Mepis no longer has NVIDIA/ATI drivers available in 2-3 clicks. It's now based on Kubuntu and you have to install the xorg package from synaptic and then edit xorg.conf as you do in Ubuntu.
Any distro that "protects you from the shell" is not doing you any favours at all. The shell is an intrinsic part of Linux and most users will need to get to grips with it, if only in a small way. A gentle and guided intro to the shell would be much better.
Point 3 - agreed. One of my frustrations with Ubuntu was the (seeming) refusal to have a clearly laid out manual on the Desktop on first boot. With particular emphasis given to why the multimedia capability is basically missing. While we're on this point, let's point out that most distros don't ship with multimedia support and that if the big commercial companies "found out" about certain distros "shipping with support for dvd and windows based media types" there'd be a flurry of law suits and appeals for financial help in the face of stiff fines. Providing this support without clear warnings of the potential consequences could backfire very badly. Imagine the scenario - users who thought they were using free software find out, when the letters from lawyers start appearing, that in fact they were breaking the law, only no-one told them. Other distros leave this risky software out but some bright spark decided to protect them from the need to learn how to use their computer. (OK, slightly lopsided scenario - but, you get the idea).
Point 4 - for news users this is meaningless. And in light of your rant about the shell this is particularly poor as a criticism. Anyone who needs protection from the shell is hardly likely to want to compile their own software.
Point 5 - Most distros come in i386 or i486 form. Suse comes in i586 and one or two even come in i686. Again, for a new user this is mostly meaningless. Though I will readily agree that the Ubuntu installer ought to detect the CPU and install the appropriate kernel for you.
Ubuntu - pretty in brown? Makes a change from blue! You can't have a desktop without a colour scheme.
We have a word here in the UK - scallywag. It means naughty in a sort of mischievous way (broad definition).
So, Devnet, you are a scallywag.
How about an article that doesn't mention Ubuntu?