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Dell replies to those who requested computers with Linux pre-installed
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Comments (39)
Dell recommends Windows Vista™ Business.
> ...we are working with Novell to certify our corporate client products for Linux...
Note: their corporate client products. Not their consumer line. In other words, nothing has changed. Corporate customers could already get Linux preloaded; all they had to do was buy enough of them and ask. Your average customer is still as out of luck as always. They won't even know Linux exists if they buy from Dell. Sorry Dell, but my money is still going elsewhere.
And no response at all about OpenOffice, even though they note the request. Typical.
Note: their corporate client products. Not their consumer line. In other words, nothing has changed. Corporate customers could already get Linux preloaded; all they had to do was buy enough of them and ask. Your average customer is still as out of luck as always. They won't even know Linux exists if they buy from Dell. Sorry Dell, but my money is still going elsewhere.
And no response at all about OpenOffice, even though they note the request. Typical.
It is in reality a huge marketing exercise, in the end for all the noise they will do nothing to upset Microsoft.
in the end for all the noise they will do nothing to upset Microsoft.
No JD, how can it...if they are only certifying Novell "Linux", and MS is backdooring both code and profits to and from it, how CAN they be upset. I am ashamed of myself. I should have seen this coming. Now...you want to really see something. Keep an eye on the Austin News...I live 20 miles from Dell HQ and I believe I want them to fess up to this.
Hey, they're gonna do what "we asked" them to do. Pre-load Linux...But Novell Suse.
I feel like I walked into a crowded dining room with toilet paper stuck to my shoe. Sheesh...I can't believe I didn't see this
h
No JD, how can it...if they are only certifying Novell "Linux", and MS is backdooring both code and profits to and from it, how CAN they be upset. I am ashamed of myself. I should have seen this coming. Now...you want to really see something. Keep an eye on the Austin News...I live 20 miles from Dell HQ and I believe I want them to fess up to this.
Hey, they're gonna do what "we asked" them to do. Pre-load Linux...But Novell Suse.
I feel like I walked into a crowded dining room with toilet paper stuck to my shoe. Sheesh...I can't believe I didn't see this
h
Helios, it would have been more polite if in you response to JD that you had actually quoted JD
> I can't believe I didn't see this
Don't feel lonely helios. I don't think anyone else saw it either, and yet it's completely obvious in retrospect.
Don't feel lonely helios. I don't think anyone else saw it either, and yet it's completely obvious in retrospect.
It's easy. Dell speak with forked tongue. As always. Just remember whose sockpuppet Michael Dell is.
I read this as "we did ask you what you wanted and we're sort of listening but since that isn't what we thought you wanted, we are going to act like we are going to give you something you asked for when we really aren't... and oh yeah, WIndows Vista Business Rocks!!!!!"
I have never been a Dell fan for many reasons.. this is just icing on the cake.
I have never been a Dell fan for many reasons.. this is just icing on the cake.
Dell is walking a tightrope, with at least ONE end HELD by Ballmer and Gates... right? So, although I am more than a little dismayed by their move directly to Novell and 'certification of enterprise customers', I'm not surprised.
I posted at the Dell site to this effect. Go out there and comment, yourself, but keep it rational and cool.
The more articulate responses they receive, hopefully the more likely they will be to make decisions that the community will find positive and helpful.
I posted at the Dell site to this effect. Go out there and comment, yourself, but keep it rational and cool.
The more articulate responses they receive, hopefully the more likely they will be to make decisions that the community will find positive and helpful.
Dell starts simple
5 earlier comments in the full thread.
> The "context", I was future thinking, the future does seem to be what Dell is looking at...
Oh, then why aren't they offering anything new? This is the same story they've been peddling for years now. Of course we offer Linux. Just jump through these 3 hoops (the last one of which is burning), which you get to from this url, carefully hidden away where no one is likely to find it.
> misleading whom ?
Anyone who thinks they're going to offer Linux to consumers.
> what was the point about being paid ?.
Dell gets paid by Microsoft to recommend Microsoft OS'es on their computers. That means Vista and XP, currently. Of course, you already know this.
Oh, then why aren't they offering anything new? This is the same story they've been peddling for years now. Of course we offer Linux. Just jump through these 3 hoops (the last one of which is burning), which you get to from this url, carefully hidden away where no one is likely to find it.
> misleading whom ?
Anyone who thinks they're going to offer Linux to consumers.
> what was the point about being paid ?.
Dell gets paid by Microsoft to recommend Microsoft OS'es on their computers. That means Vista and XP, currently. Of course, you already know this.
>Dell's approach is a good one I believe, business customers can now have Dell as yet another choice when looking for business computers pre-installed with Linux. Its a simple and imo a smart way to start
Yes, "approach" and "start" are good. Here it is, the press release from the source. Please check it out, especially the date.
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/corp/pressoff...
Yes, "approach" and "start" are good. Here it is, the press release from the source. Please check it out, especially the date.
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/corp/pressoff...
> Business customers will buy support most if not all the time, and that pays when talking about Linux, what is the point to sell computers to Linux customers without a return on the investment.
Because that is what customers want. Are you claiming they lose money on a Windows PC if consumers don't buy support?
Because that is what customers want. Are you claiming they lose money on a Windows PC if consumers don't buy support?
> Business customers will buy support most if not all the time, and that pays when talking about Linux, what is the point to sell computers to Linux customers without a return on the investment.
So why are they selling Windows machines to customers who don't "buy support"? Oh, and in case you're not paying attention, there is no option for "no support" on Dell's site. The minimum you pay for is one year.
So why are they selling Windows machines to customers who don't "buy support"? Oh, and in case you're not paying attention, there is no option for "no support" on Dell's site. The minimum you pay for is one year.
Not to be misleading, I guess "pre-installed" Linux will become a standard offer at Dell, making "future thinking" for all Linux customers true.
http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/9951/53/
The only problem I have with Dell's frist Linux choice, is Novell.
http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/9951/53/
The only problem I have with Dell's frist Linux choice, is Novell.
I'm not impressed. As noted elsewhere, this is the same thing they've always done.
It would take ten seconds to fix the problem. Michael Dell sends out an email saying that every PC they sell is available without an OS for a nontrivial discount. He can then come up with a way to certify that desktops and especially laptops work with Linux distributions. To say that certain corporate products will be certified to work with Linux does nothing for consumers. Perhaps we need to send them a box of Q-Tips so they can clean out their ears and hear what customers are saying.
It would take ten seconds to fix the problem. Michael Dell sends out an email saying that every PC they sell is available without an OS for a nontrivial discount. He can then come up with a way to certify that desktops and especially laptops work with Linux distributions. To say that certain corporate products will be certified to work with Linux does nothing for consumers. Perhaps we need to send them a box of Q-Tips so they can clean out their ears and hear what customers are saying.
They're not even willing to have OpenOffice.org as a choice when picking the office suite on a standard consumer desktop machine.
RE: swbrown.
OpenOffice can be downloaded from Sun and installed, the choice is there. Dell is not perfect, but continues trying and I give credit fot that. I have an HP notebook, one year old, and have run linux on it with no major problems, the point is here that HP said nothing about or offered Linux on a non-business notebook at the time. For people that want an OEM to offer "everything" is not much different then what Windows users want from Microsoft that has today a monopoly with fewer choices that users must accept. As an OEM, Dell even with the loss of money from Microosoft for all equipment not sold with a copy of Windows, Dell has broken a chain that is a larger step to Linux being offered as an equal, that Microsoft has had success not to allow.
OpenOffice can be downloaded from Sun and installed, the choice is there. Dell is not perfect, but continues trying and I give credit fot that. I have an HP notebook, one year old, and have run linux on it with no major problems, the point is here that HP said nothing about or offered Linux on a non-business notebook at the time. For people that want an OEM to offer "everything" is not much different then what Windows users want from Microsoft that has today a monopoly with fewer choices that users must accept. As an OEM, Dell even with the loss of money from Microosoft for all equipment not sold with a copy of Windows, Dell has broken a chain that is a larger step to Linux being offered as an equal, that Microsoft has had success not to allow.
I'm not sure why you have such an affection for Dell.
> the point is here that HP said nothing about or offered Linux on a non-business notebook at the time
after saying
> I have an HP notebook, one year old, and have run linux on it with no major problems
That's really the important thing: that Linux works. Would you rather have Dell say the right words and ship laptops with no consideration for Linux compatibility, or have HP sell laptops that work with Linux but don't say anything one way or the other?
I hate to play the bad guy, but I just don't understand why you keep making the same point about how good Dell is. They aren't actually doing anything to help Linux users or Linux more generally, so why would I care about what they are saying? Do you work for Dell? I just don't get why you are trying to get us to read something into this non-announcement.
> the point is here that HP said nothing about or offered Linux on a non-business notebook at the time
after saying
> I have an HP notebook, one year old, and have run linux on it with no major problems
That's really the important thing: that Linux works. Would you rather have Dell say the right words and ship laptops with no consideration for Linux compatibility, or have HP sell laptops that work with Linux but don't say anything one way or the other?
I hate to play the bad guy, but I just don't understand why you keep making the same point about how good Dell is. They aren't actually doing anything to help Linux users or Linux more generally, so why would I care about what they are saying? Do you work for Dell? I just don't get why you are trying to get us to read something into this non-announcement.
RE: bigg.
No affection for Dell, why must it be "affection for Dell", is it because some hate Dell ?. You do not agree with me, fine, play the bad guy all you wish to, as if that matters.
No affection for Dell, why must it be "affection for Dell", is it because some hate Dell ?. You do not agree with me, fine, play the bad guy all you wish to, as if that matters.
>t would take ten seconds to fix the problem. Michael Dell sends out an email saying that every PC they sell is available without an OS for a nontrivial discount.
Why do you presume there should be any discount at all?
If Dell earns revenue from software publishers whose crippleware is packaged with each box, that revenue loss will offset in part or in whole any savings from not including an OS.
Why do you presume there should be any discount at all?
If Dell earns revenue from software publishers whose crippleware is packaged with each box, that revenue loss will offset in part or in whole any savings from not including an OS.
dino, exactly right. So Dell should just shut up about Linux and focus on selling windoze boxes. Dell is the one making all the pointless, deceitful Linux noise.
I would be more than happy with a no OS computer that was certified as Linux ready or other similar accolade. Its a fair bet that if you test RH on it and everything just works then it will also just work for a majority if the current top distro's. Laptop by preferance as I spend more time on the road than I would like.
That being said though, I have a Compaq and an HP (I know I just said the same thing twice) that took whole seconds of tinkering to get fully functional with the dratted bcm43xx drivers for either Ubuntu or PCLinuxOS, and no tinker time at all for Sabayon.
I understand the reasoning some would like to see linux computers sell for less than windows machines for the market advantage that it would create. I just dont realisticly see it happening that way, so I wont kick if they sell for the same price as their windoze based counterpart. Heck I might still be inclined to buy the windows machine for the same price and then cash in the M$ tax and do it myself. I'd still land with a linux machine and for slightly less than the marketed one.
That being said though, I have a Compaq and an HP (I know I just said the same thing twice) that took whole seconds of tinkering to get fully functional with the dratted bcm43xx drivers for either Ubuntu or PCLinuxOS, and no tinker time at all for Sabayon.
I understand the reasoning some would like to see linux computers sell for less than windows machines for the market advantage that it would create. I just dont realisticly see it happening that way, so I wont kick if they sell for the same price as their windoze based counterpart. Heck I might still be inclined to buy the windows machine for the same price and then cash in the M$ tax and do it myself. I'd still land with a linux machine and for slightly less than the marketed one.
Agreed, TC. They are trying to have it all, and not yet realizing that by doing so they will only make enemies.
> Why do you presume there should be any discount at all?
Well, as I said elsewhere, I am assuming that they make more in additional software sales on a Windows machine than the cost of Windows. I don't believe Michael Dell is an imbecile, and I doubt that Microsoft is giving them Windows for free, so that is the only explanation that makes sense.
I was responding to the posts here and the noise elsewhere saying that Dell is planning to do something. If they want a no-Windows option, they don't need to draft a strategy, they don't need a committee, they can just say "we'll sell computers without an OS" and it's done. They just stop doing part of the process of PC assembly.
This would fix the problem that others are waiting to be fixed. I'm not claiming that it would be profitable to fix the problem. But that is what some people are saying Dell will do.
Well, as I said elsewhere, I am assuming that they make more in additional software sales on a Windows machine than the cost of Windows. I don't believe Michael Dell is an imbecile, and I doubt that Microsoft is giving them Windows for free, so that is the only explanation that makes sense.
I was responding to the posts here and the noise elsewhere saying that Dell is planning to do something. If they want a no-Windows option, they don't need to draft a strategy, they don't need a committee, they can just say "we'll sell computers without an OS" and it's done. They just stop doing part of the process of PC assembly.
This would fix the problem that others are waiting to be fixed. I'm not claiming that it would be profitable to fix the problem. But that is what some people are saying Dell will do.
Apologies in advance. In a cryptic mood at the moment.
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep one in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep one in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
Jack:
> Dell is not perfect, but continues trying and I give credit fot that.
You misspelled lying.
Dino:
> Why do you presume there should be any discount at all?
From Dell's profit perspective, maybe their shouldn't be. However, from my perspective, I can download and install Linux myself. I'm not willing to pay Dell for doing so. I would be willing to pay a small surcharge to be donated to my distribution of choice, but making it the same cost as Windows is far too much.
Dell's current offerings to not meet my needs as a consumer, so I don't buy from them. The question is, can Dell meet my needs and their own at the same time?
> If Dell earns revenue from software publishers whose crippleware is packaged with each box, that revenue loss will offset in part or in whole any savings from not including an OS.
Yes, it will. But the crippleware is not something that benefits the customer, only Dell. From my perspective, the crippleware detracts from the value of the product, making it less valuable, not more. Now, I'll admit that it's possible that a majority of their market does not share my view, but I honestly consider that unlikely.
Again, including crippleware does not meet their customers' needs. This is a general purpose case, and not Linux specific, so I think Dell is probably making a serious mistake in going down this path.
I'm not sure there is a simple solution from Dell's perspective. They need to maintain their profits, but they also want to keep growing, and growth in the Windows market is largely tapped out. And, as Enderle points out, they also badly need something to make Microsoft more, hmm, "attentive" to their needs. Linux meets both of the latter two needs, but it may eat into their profit margin.
> Dell is not perfect, but continues trying and I give credit fot that.
You misspelled lying.
Dino:
> Why do you presume there should be any discount at all?
From Dell's profit perspective, maybe their shouldn't be. However, from my perspective, I can download and install Linux myself. I'm not willing to pay Dell for doing so. I would be willing to pay a small surcharge to be donated to my distribution of choice, but making it the same cost as Windows is far too much.
Dell's current offerings to not meet my needs as a consumer, so I don't buy from them. The question is, can Dell meet my needs and their own at the same time?
> If Dell earns revenue from software publishers whose crippleware is packaged with each box, that revenue loss will offset in part or in whole any savings from not including an OS.
Yes, it will. But the crippleware is not something that benefits the customer, only Dell. From my perspective, the crippleware detracts from the value of the product, making it less valuable, not more. Now, I'll admit that it's possible that a majority of their market does not share my view, but I honestly consider that unlikely.
Again, including crippleware does not meet their customers' needs. This is a general purpose case, and not Linux specific, so I think Dell is probably making a serious mistake in going down this path.
I'm not sure there is a simple solution from Dell's perspective. They need to maintain their profits, but they also want to keep growing, and growth in the Windows market is largely tapped out. And, as Enderle points out, they also badly need something to make Microsoft more, hmm, "attentive" to their needs. Linux meets both of the latter two needs, but it may eat into their profit margin.
I do have a problem with paying the same price for a No OS box. I would be willing to pay the same price for a box with Linux pre-installed as for Windows. I honestly don't have a problem with them providing a service like that, especially if it proves more valuable than me wasting my time with the OS installation. If I can't afford their installation service, then I'll have to do it myself and buy a No OS box - from a company that doesn't keep the MS tax.
"...and not yet realizing that by doing so they will only make enemies."
Many of us who were completely comfortable on our fence perch have fallen decisively on the "enemy" side of said fence...and by the tens of thousands. My email box contained over 200 emails today by 6pm referring to this Dell Debacle. Strongly thirty percent of those emails ranged from suggesting to demanding L4L officially call for a boycott of Dell.
Why? Most of us either build our own or buy from vendors who give us what we want without all the dramatics.
The Linux and FOSS Pundi will rail on this issue until we grow tired of it or find some other outrage to sic a keyboard on...
Unfortunately. Dell will recover from any negative impact this has upon them. That is, unless we can get some mainstream media attention.
That will happen just as soon as I defrag my hard drive. h
Many of us who were completely comfortable on our fence perch have fallen decisively on the "enemy" side of said fence...and by the tens of thousands. My email box contained over 200 emails today by 6pm referring to this Dell Debacle. Strongly thirty percent of those emails ranged from suggesting to demanding L4L officially call for a boycott of Dell.
Why? Most of us either build our own or buy from vendors who give us what we want without all the dramatics.
The Linux and FOSS Pundi will rail on this issue until we grow tired of it or find some other outrage to sic a keyboard on...
Unfortunately. Dell will recover from any negative impact this has upon them. That is, unless we can get some mainstream media attention.
That will happen just as soon as I defrag my hard drive. h
And don't forget to link all your websites to the Pre-Installed Linux Vendor DB!
Insulting!
I found several aspects of this "update" insulting. First, they seem to lump together pre-installed Linux and OpenOffice. Those are two really different things... preinstalling Linux would affect a small percent of their users. Giving everyone OOo out of the box would be an enormous boon to users but a big set-back to Microsoft. It's insulting when Dell asks for ideas and then ignores one that could help a lot of their users.
Second, I followed the link to their "open-source notebooks" page. There you can buy a Latitude without Windows. Again, this link seemed to imply pre-installed Linux and instead it's just a no-OS option. Bad enough... But then I priced the no-OS Lattitude D520 laptop against the same machine with Windows... the no-OS is $50 MORE expensive for the same build! Shouldn't it be $50 CHEAPER?!!?
And the reason it's more expensive is that there are two upgrades thrown in for free on the Windows machine but not on the no-OS (a 60 GB HD and a 8x DVD). The no-OS machine is slightly cheaper in it's default config but also slightly inferior.
Geez, I had high hopes but now I'm skeptical.
Second, I followed the link to their "open-source notebooks" page. There you can buy a Latitude without Windows. Again, this link seemed to imply pre-installed Linux and instead it's just a no-OS option. Bad enough... But then I priced the no-OS Lattitude D520 laptop against the same machine with Windows... the no-OS is $50 MORE expensive for the same build! Shouldn't it be $50 CHEAPER?!!?
And the reason it's more expensive is that there are two upgrades thrown in for free on the Windows machine but not on the no-OS (a 60 GB HD and a 8x DVD). The no-OS machine is slightly cheaper in it's default config but also slightly inferior.
Geez, I had high hopes but now I'm skeptical.
Wtf is the point of creating a customer info gathering 'idea storm' portal if they're going to ignore all the customer's ideas?
"In fact, today XPS customers can opt-out of almost all preinstalled software."
BS, I have such a system, and it still comes loaded with a ton of garbage. Significantly less than a standard Dell, but still a whole bunch of crap I didn't want. Worse, it's all burned into Dell's reinstaller for the OS, so you can't even install clean. Even worse, even if you did manage to clean it all off, your system would be CRIPPLED as they did things like strip the DTS decoder from Creative's drivers as they say providing it with the bundled CinePlayer that no one wanted is good enough. As they explained to the irate buyers, they just wanted to not have to pay for two DTS licenses, so of course, they gave preference to their bundled crapware. :P They didn't tell anyone this, the buyers found out the hard way. Along with the gimped NForce 590 chipset (they stripped nearly everything out of it despite advertising it as a 590 - various RAID levels, dual gigabit ethernet, etc.), gimped virtualization (the BIOS didn't allow you to turn it on!), and various other things they really need to be sued over for false advertising.
"It’s exciting to see the IdeaStorm community’s interest in open source solutions like Linux and OpenOffice."
And it's exciting to see you ignore both.
"In fact, today XPS customers can opt-out of almost all preinstalled software."
BS, I have such a system, and it still comes loaded with a ton of garbage. Significantly less than a standard Dell, but still a whole bunch of crap I didn't want. Worse, it's all burned into Dell's reinstaller for the OS, so you can't even install clean. Even worse, even if you did manage to clean it all off, your system would be CRIPPLED as they did things like strip the DTS decoder from Creative's drivers as they say providing it with the bundled CinePlayer that no one wanted is good enough. As they explained to the irate buyers, they just wanted to not have to pay for two DTS licenses, so of course, they gave preference to their bundled crapware. :P They didn't tell anyone this, the buyers found out the hard way. Along with the gimped NForce 590 chipset (they stripped nearly everything out of it despite advertising it as a 590 - various RAID levels, dual gigabit ethernet, etc.), gimped virtualization (the BIOS didn't allow you to turn it on!), and various other things they really need to be sued over for false advertising.
"It’s exciting to see the IdeaStorm community’s interest in open source solutions like Linux and OpenOffice."
And it's exciting to see you ignore both.
agree with these posts. openoffice and linux should not be grouped.
I think it is insulting they put the crappy microsoft works on their computers instead of openoffice. They are doing their customers no favors installing microsoft works. Open Office is better than microsoft's flagship Office product (subjective of course) and yet they still give their customers crappy works. the dells and gateways are just another division of microsoft in my opinion that is why they don't get my money.
we will see what comes of this but I think they will continue business as usual and not upset good old boy bill g.
I think it is insulting they put the crappy microsoft works on their computers instead of openoffice. They are doing their customers no favors installing microsoft works. Open Office is better than microsoft's flagship Office product (subjective of course) and yet they still give their customers crappy works. the dells and gateways are just another division of microsoft in my opinion that is why they don't get my money.
we will see what comes of this but I think they will continue business as usual and not upset good old boy bill g.
Quoting:Wtf is the point of creating a customer info gathering 'idea storm' portal if they're going to ignore all the customer's ideas?
So that they can say to themselves that they take customer input..now as for what they do with it...oh well.
Hmm, not buying Dell is also customer input, I suppose?
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NewsForge, in their "NewsVac" has posted the "misread" story that Dell wants you to read, "Dell announces pre-installed Linux options."
There is a Marketing Mind Ray that emanates from Dell that makes people entirely exaggerate a Dell non-happening, then pass it off as fact in the press.
To NewsForge: :-(
I think, for proper categorization, that this "story" is properly characterized as a "press release."