Just for fun while testing KDE4 (4.7.4)

Forum: LinuxTotal Replies: 96
Author Content
tracyanne

Feb 04, 2012
12:29 AM EST


Two monitors arranged vertically, different background image on each Monitor and different set of images on each of the 4 Virtual Desktops.

Why? because I can.

For those of you who have heard (read) me complaining about KDE4, well it now appears to have all of the functionality I once had on KDE 3.5.10, plus a few nice extras, and... the annoyances I complained about seen to either no longer be there or I can turn them off.

I'm actually now looking forward to upgrading my machine, and moving to KDE 4.
Khamul

Feb 04, 2012
1:26 AM EST
The only problem I'm still having with 4.7.4 is that Kontact doesn't seem to be working right. The RSS reader in it works well, but the Todo list part appears to be broken.
tracyanne

Feb 04, 2012
2:09 AM EST
I don't use Kontact. I use Evolution on whatever desktop I use
DrGeoffrey

Feb 04, 2012
7:56 AM EST
@TA - Congratulations! I'm glad you got kde working the way you need it.

(BTW, It looks very, very nice.)
nikkels

Feb 04, 2012
9:07 AM EST
Konqueror is still buggy as h#ll in /View/Details mode when renaming folders , deleting folders and folder color management. Not buggy, broken... Talking about 4.6.5
Fettoosh

Feb 04, 2012
9:59 AM EST
@TA, It took a while, but I am glad KDE 4.x is finally working well for you.

Edited: How about a nice tutorial here on LXer.! :-)

Quoting:Konqueror is still buggy ...


If you have no good reason to stay with KDE 4.6.5, I highly recommend upgrading to the latest KDE 4.8.0. Many bugs have been fixed and a lot of optimization have been done to improve performance.

Konqueror is the Swiss Army knife that can do many things. Consequently, it is a bit bloated with a lot of features and didn't get the attention it deserve. Instead, I would use Dolphin for file management. Dolphin now is super fast even when working with very large directories like /sbin, /etc, ...

Quoting:The only problem I'm still having with 4.7.4 is that Kontact doesn't seem to be working right.


The same for Kontact, although I don't use it, I just briefly tested it and I suggest upgrading to KDE 4.8 since it has improved a good deal.



Fettoosh

Feb 04, 2012
11:09 AM EST
@TA,

Very nice virtual background. One thing I noticed is that you are still using GIMP 2.6, do you like the separate windows interface?

If you are interested in trying out the single window interface and using a Debian based distro, here is where you can get a .deb file or to add a repository to install it using apt-get or Aptitude.

GIMP version 2.7.4 allows you to switch between the two interfaces seamlessly by selecting the "Windows" menu option then turning "Single-Windows Mode" option On/Off

mrw-gimp-svn for matthaeus123



tracyanne

Feb 04, 2012
6:10 PM EST
@Fetoosh. I'm already running that version of GIMP on my main desktop, and I hadn't noticed that it has the single window mode. Actually single window mode may take some getting used to, now that I've tried it.

Currently the KDE 4 desktop is running on my test machine (a VirtualBox VM running on top of my main machine). As a consequence some graphical things don't work, but that's ok, as I've tested them on one of my netbooks, and am very happy with them.

I've actually uninstalled Kontact and Kmail and a couple of associated appliations and libraries, that I will never use. My desktops have always, even from the first time I used Linux back in 2000 a mixture of KDE and GNOME.... Mandrake actually had a applications options, and you could select both desktop environments at install time, which I regularly did, and selected the applications i found most useful, discarding the ones i didn't.

I don't intend to upgrade my OS until Linux Mint 13 is released, depending on a number of things, I may wait for LM 13 KDE, but that's not fixed in stone. I guess I'll wait and see what version of KDE is available with the Primary release.
Scott_Ruecker

Feb 05, 2012
10:17 AM EST
Wait..who are you and what have you done with Tracy..and I 2nd the Tutorial for the edification of LXer readers and editors such as myself..;-)

I am very interested in being able to run KDE 4 like I did back in the 'good ole days' (for me) of running PCLOS and stuff.

Scott
nikkels

Feb 05, 2012
11:43 PM EST
Scott If you are referring to KDE3.5.10........the ISO and the repos are still available. No support !
caitlyn

Apr 14, 2012
4:30 PM EST
So, tracyanne, have you tried KDE 4.8.x yet? If so, how do you like it?
Ridcully

Apr 14, 2012
5:38 PM EST
I'm currently downloading openSUSE 12.2 milestone 3, KDE live version. Will come back with any comments.

Update: Downloaded iso image successfully, burnt CD, tried twice to load CD from bootup without success.....exit CD to nearest wpb. Am going to download the full milestone later on today and see where that takes me.
tracyanne

Apr 14, 2012
6:53 PM EST
@caitlyn, I'm currently running 4.8.2, loaded the PPA, and upgraded to 4.8.1 shortly after I wrote the above, and upgraded to 4.8.2 almost as soon as it was released.

I'm quite happy with it, I think there have been a couple of small additions to functionality, I think the full screen when window dragged to top of screen as changed slightly. I think the addition is that ability to double click on the window decoration to set it back to not full screen. There are a few other small things. But that could just be me discovering things.

But I'd rather the big bugs like Kmail being so buggy, abnd the other applications others have complained about,was fixed first. I'd also like to see Dolphin's functionality worked on, it's no where near as nice as Nautilus in GNOME 2 was.
caitlyn

Apr 14, 2012
8:15 PM EST
I may have to download the latest Slackel build with KDE 4.8.2 and check it out. (See: http://lxer.com/module/newswire/ext_link.php?rid=165391 ) I agree with you that the whole kmail mess needs to be sorted as a top priority.

BTW, if you like GNOME 2 and Nautilus you could always run MATE with the Caja file manager. Development is ongoing and more and more distros are picking up MATE.
Ridcully

Apr 14, 2012
8:39 PM EST
@caitlyn and tracyanne - thanks to both of you and couldn't agree with you more on KMail. It's a very unpleasant blot on what is otherwise, in my opinion, an exceptionally good DE. Hopefully fixed in KDE4.8.2.....
tracyanne

Apr 14, 2012
9:49 PM EST
@caitlyn, I'll wait until LM13, then I'll give MATE a try. I'm on Wireless broard band, and keep going over as it is.
nikkels

Apr 14, 2012
11:45 PM EST
I just installed slack and am NOT impressed with " first contact". For normal end user, installing internet is a mystery. I just asked 4 ( young ) people. personally, I can edit files or use console to do it.

Konqueror is missing

The kickstart menu doesn't allow for classic mode

Configure computer should better be configure desktop

etc etc.

Sorry, not impressed at all on first contact

I think I am going to wipe it of tonight or tomorrow, unless someone sends me chocolates
caitlyn

Apr 15, 2012
12:04 AM EST
If you use a Slackware derivative that adds the missing pieces to the distribution you'll be far more impressed.
nikkels

Apr 15, 2012
12:37 AM EST
@ caitlyn

And that would be...............?

Please note, that my interest in distros <other> than PCLinuxOS is only that I am in contact on a daily base with "would be" linux users. Those people need "to see" , not " to guess " where is this and that. Well, at least till they had a chance to acclimatise to the Linux environment. After that, [he]lt is:[/he] row baby, row !>

And about Slackel, I was not downing the distro or DE, just not impressed .
Ridcully

Apr 15, 2012
1:14 AM EST
I have just been testing openSUSE 12.2 milestone 3 as an installed version, but in particular looking at KDE and KMail. Okay.....this version of openSUSE is currently running KDE4.8.1 and KMail 4.8

I installed the milestone 3 onto a hdd that had previously been used as a test bed for version 12.1 and I had already been trying to get KMail to work and had copied all my working folders into the directory as I mention below in step 1.

To cut to the chase immediately, I was able to get all my emails across and accessible in KMail, get them up on the screen, send and receive and also reorder the intray so that I had everything the way I wanted it. I need more time to become a little more familiar, but at least we got there. This is not exactly straight forward but here's how you do it:

1. KMail in this version sets up two folders in the .kde4/share/apps/ directory; these are /kmail2 and /kmail23. Whether this is correct or not, I ignored kmail23 because inside /kmail2 are all the immediately recognisable imap folders, including /mail . Now I admit this might have been put there by my previous attempts at getting this software running, but I don't think so......

2. My emails were copied into /mail with full directory structure exactly as they are in my present version of KDE4.4.4. and KMail 1.13.5 Now I stress that at this point, you cannot get to them in KMail 4.8 using its default settings.

3. You now open Settings and Configure KMail from the drop down menu. Then select Accounts on the subwindow followed by Receiving.

4. Assuming you have set up an account for yourself, you will see two items: POP3 Account and Local Folders, both of which have a small green button on the relevant line.

5. Select the Local Folders line followed by "Modify" from the menu on the right hand of the window. This opens a directory selection window which you then alter to point to the /mail directory in which all your mail folders have been stored. I had to use Dolphin simultaneously in order to copy and paste that directory across, but once that is done, all the folders will be available in the normal KMail window.

6. It isn't over yet. I prefer my folders arranged so that the usual inbox, outbox, sentmail, drafts and trash folders are right at the top, followed by an alphabetic arrangement of all the subfolders for special collections of emails. To get that is also a bit of a struggle because to start with, all the folders are just mixed up in plain alphbetical order. You have to play around with right clicks on names and a few other irritating things in order to get the standard layout........but it can be done.

7. I then tested the system with a simple test message both sent and received and in both cases, the test email was placed in the correct folder as it left and was received. So......KMail seems usable at last in KDE4.8.1

One last little "bitch".......Dolphin. It was rather annoying to find that the default Dolphin view was without its normal text menu bar right at the top. It took a bit of exploring to get the darn thing back.....but it can be done using the spanner icon at the extreme top right of the file directory entry box.......Some of my original settings came through from the 12.1 installation, but to lose the text menu bar altogether is not nice.......too important for me.

Hope that is useful everybody. However, it looks as if KDE4.8.1 has pretty good possibilities as far as I am concerned.

Update: I keep reading the above and telling myself: Okay, I got it to work......BUT......WHY, WHY should I have to go through such a complex blasted process in order just to get my previous emails to work ? I haven't looked to see yet if there is an import mechanism, but in any event, the "hidden nature" of these switches that allow one to get to see one's previous email archive almost defy imagination. This is reaching complexity for complexity's sake in my book.

nikkels

Apr 15, 2012
1:40 AM EST
@Ridcully

A--In your present suse setup, is Konqueror available or not ?

B--I also would like to know why Kmail is so important as I find Thunderbird far less troublesome

( if you can spare the time )

Thanks
Ridcully

Apr 15, 2012
2:46 AM EST
@nikkels........Yes. Konqueror is available as an internet browser....Looks nice and remarkably like FFox in default. I just opened a Google home page and left it at that, so I haven't had a play.

As regards KMail......it is partially sheer "bl00dymindedness" because I am darned if I am going to allow something I have used for years as my default email client beat me......But second, I have huge archives of emails all put through KMail as the client; so KMail is the easiest way to access them when required. I have used Evolution in the past, but around 2004 I settled on KMail. Until these latest versions, KMail was simple, effective, easy to use and did everything I could wish for. In other words, I was hanged if I was going to just lie down and accept that my email client was unusable........so I stayed with a much earlier version which DOES just work. And I prefer SuSE/openSUSE as it has been my OS now since 2001 (a Linux Odyssey). :-) The problem with altering from KMail is always, always the difficulty of getting the emails across into a new client.....far easier if you keep to a version of KMail that works until the latest version works again the way you want. How's that ?
nikkels

Apr 15, 2012
2:56 AM EST
OK I am pleased that Konqueror is still there . Hope they fixed something there But I use it as file and folder manager, not as browser. Most of the time in KDE3 ( Pardus ) Didn't see it in slackel. And about Kmail, yes I understand......<<I am darned if I am going to allow something I have used for years as my default---etc>> .....very well. Same here sometimes.
Ridcully

Apr 15, 2012
3:05 AM EST
@nikkels.......LOL......nice to see TWO stubborn mules. In all seriousness, I used to love Konqueror, but once I mastered Dolphin, I now very strongly prefer it. I really wouldn't like to go back to Konqueror again. And whatever you do, don't let Fettoosh see the following statement, because I will deny I ever said it: I used to think I would really, really like to head back to KDE3.5 or TrinityKDE, but KDE4 is getting so darn good that provided I can continue to modify it as I require, I simply won't head back to KDE sorta 3.5..........I didn't say that by the way and this message will self destruct in 5 seconds - Fettoosh will enjoy it too much.
gus3

Apr 15, 2012
6:37 AM EST
@nikkels and @caitlyn, it looks like the Slackware -current update that came through overnight might have your improvements merged. It brings KDE to version 4.8.2.

http://slackware.osuosl.org/slackware-current/ChangeLog.txt
Fettoosh

Apr 15, 2012
10:19 AM EST
Quoting:LOL......nice to see TWO stubborn mules. In all seriousness, I used to love Konqueror, but once I mastered Dolphin, I now very strongly prefer it. I really wouldn't like to go back to Konqueror again. And whatever you do, don't let Fettoosh see the following statement, because I will deny I ever said it: I used to think I would really, really like to head back to KDE3.5 or TrinityKDE, but KDE4 is getting so darn good that provided I can continue to modify it as I require, I simply won't head back to KDE sorta 3.5..........I didn't say that by the way and this message will self destruct in 5 seconds - Fettoosh will enjoy it too much.


Fat chance @Ridcully, it is too late to self destruct, I already made a duplicate here and it can't self destruct. :-), well unless you become a Lxer editor or get the handy helping hand from your neighbor @Tracyanne. :-)

But seriously @Ridcully, I am very glad and happy for you to finally get KMail4 working. I congratulate you for your tenacity & persistence. Didn't I say you will like it when it gets working better?! :-)

And about getting things "Just-works", that is basically what I have been ranting about lately. There is no reason for FOSS applications not to "just-works" any more. Technically, it is very mature, if not more so than commercial software. It is time for QA to be taken seriously and should become another good attribute of FOSS. I have high hopes KDE will be one of the first to do that.

@nikkles,

If you have Kongueror as a browser, all you need to do to make it lunch in file manager mode is to create a "Application link" with the following command setting "konqueror --profile filemanagement".

You can create such link on the Desktop, Folder View, or in KMenu.

dinotrac

Apr 15, 2012
12:03 PM EST
@fettoosh -

Yes, there is a reason. It's called developers who do not take a professional attitude to their work.
Fettoosh

Apr 15, 2012
12:44 PM EST
Quoting: It's called developers who do not take a professional attitude to their work.


Knock it off @Dino. :-)

I see many things changing. Give them a chance, they are getting into revenue generating projects like MyCloud and Spark/Vivaldi (Or is that Velveeta?).





dinotrac

Apr 15, 2012
3:39 PM EST
@ft --

Give them a chance?

Ummm....KDE has been around since 1998, and KDE 4.X was released in January of 2008. That was just half a year after the very first iPhone, and two months after the initial release of the Android operating system.

Since that time, the country's first African-American President was elected and Democrats won, then lost overwhelming control of Congress. Osama bin Laden was hunted down and killed, Muammar Gadaffi ousted and murdered, and the Space shuttle de-commissioned, waging good-bye to Borders books on its way out the door.

How much time do these guys need?



tracyanne

Apr 15, 2012
4:25 PM EST
@Ridcully, you're a better man than I, Gunga Din, I didn't even try when KMail broke my emails I uninstalled it and reinstalled Evolution. It Just Works.
Fettoosh

Apr 15, 2012
5:14 PM EST
Quoting:How much time do these guys need?


A new generation to come on board! Now seriously Dino, don't you see a tiny bit of change in attitude?

Ridcully

Apr 15, 2012
5:18 PM EST
@Tracyanne.....thankyou. Now that I know it can be done, I am going to experiment a bit further. For some reason, I got the bit between my teeth yesterday. I didn't actually threaten the computer with a sledgehammer if it misbehaved, but I think it got the message that it was "sledgehammer time" if it put a foot wrong. Satisfaction to one side though, one should NOT have to go through such a complex process just to enjoy using a piece of software that has always previously worked well.

I just *knew* Fettoosh was gonna have a gloat :-) .....but again seriously, I hope he is right in that the KDE team is equally serious about doing quality control on their products and making sure that what they release is as polished as they can get and working well. Personally, I would like to see much more interoperability between email client packages. Right now, my perception is that Linux email clients are practising "user lock-in" so that you are in considerable difficulties when you try to get often very large email archives over to another client - and here I include both "in and out transactions" by the client software. They usually provide some sort of method for themselves, but no more than that. It can be done by other means, but it is often very messy.

Update: I want to look at a completely new installation of openSUSE 12.2 to examine the defaults in the Local Folders option in the settings area. I recall that there was a default directory which was different from where I eventually stored my emails in /kmail2. It could be that default directory is also linked to the Akonadi and other databasing systems so that it would be more effective ultimately in putting the working archives into that particular directory. I am beginning to think that KMail currently allows the option of having the ability to look at a variety of directories via that Local Folders option and this in turn could be a very powerful tool which would allow you to very rapidly check any email archive you wished simply by pointing KMail at the appropriate archive directory......If so, this apparent complexity may turn out to be a very useful access system.
Khamul

Apr 15, 2012
8:54 PM EST
Since that time, the country's first African-American President was elected and Democrats won, then lost overwhelming control of Congress. Osama bin Laden was hunted down and killed, Muammar Gadaffi ousted and murdered, and the Space shuttle de-commissioned, waging good-bye to Borders books on its way out the door.

How much time do these guys need?


Give them until the next giant, world-changing event: Best Buy closing its doors, not too long after Circuit City (I better not use their other name here because of TOS) closed theirs.

I'd like to throw a party when that day comes. Good riddance!
slacker_mike

Apr 16, 2012
4:30 PM EST
@Ridcully, just curious how come you went and tried Milestone 3 for 12.2 rather than update the KDE desktop in 12.1 to KDE 4.8.2 via the KR48 repo http://en.opensuse.org/KDE_repositories?

I am going to actually give opensuse a whirl and see if I can put up with it. I tend to favor Slackware and Fluxbox but I always try out KDE and use KDE apps. I think there are great ideas in KDE but the execution always leaves a little to be desired and I wish it wasn't so resource hungry.
Ridcully

Apr 16, 2012
5:38 PM EST
@slacker_mike......I'm rather pleased you asked that question as it's a logical thing to do, but definitely not in my case. I run a laptop with openSUSE 11.3, KDE4.4.4....and that laptop has all my data, working, software, etc. etc. on it. It's a crucial item for my day to day computer use and work and the unbreakable rule for me, is that I don't tamper with it in any way other than to add/remove a piece of application software if needed. So, it couldn't be upgraded in the usual sense, nor would I do so. When I upgrade it is a longish process that is ultracareful of my data and involves a more or less blank hdd, a new installation and then transfer of all data from the old drive which is kept as an archival repository for some time.......and also somewhere to go back to if everything collapses in the new update. I guess you could say I am ultra-careful and slowish.

I have a second laptop which I use as an experimental test bed....it had 12.1 on it and I couldn't get KMail to work. So, I did a complete reinstall on principle using the absolute latest version of openSUSE hoping that the new version of KMail it contained would have reached a "milestone" where at last some sense could be made of its structure, and that it could be made to work. It did. Hope that explains everything. :-) It also happened that I was so exasperated with KMail that I threw caution to the winds - but ONLY on that test laptop.
slacker_mike

Apr 16, 2012
5:57 PM EST
@Ridcully that makes sense. Since 11.3 is unsupported currently do you plan to migrate to 11.4, 12.1, or just skip to 12.2?
Ridcully

Apr 16, 2012
6:17 PM EST
@slacker_mike......I did a bit of thinking about that but even though 11.3 is unsupported, it just purrs. I tried 11.4 quite seriously, but found its behaviour odd....difficult to explain, but sort of "clunky". Oh, it all worked and reasonably well, but not as smoothly as 11.3. So I decided to stay with the unsupported version of 11.3 purely because I have all the software on it that I need and it runs so smoothly. It's one of the lesser trumpeted marvellous attributes of Linux; you really can remain "unsupported" and still operate perfectly. If I have it correctly, I seem to recall Helios mentioned he was doing this too......He wasn't installing the latest versions of Ubuntu, but a version about 2 years old because it worked so well, even though unsupported. I think it might also have been the one that still had Gnome2 on it and that was his reason but I could have that wrong, so don't treat it as gospel.

My aim is to just sit and explore the openSUSE 12.x series.....sooner or later, an iteration will appear that I can work with.....and then it will be the big transfer.
slacker_mike

Apr 16, 2012
6:36 PM EST
@Ridcully, I know what you mean but the lack of security updates just scares me too much.
Ridcully

Apr 16, 2012
6:46 PM EST
@slacker_mike...And you have an excellent point. My impression though, was that a very large number of those security updates are irrelevant to my setup and the way I use this particular one is fairly protected anyhow. I am not permanently on line so my use of the internet is quite erratic. Viruses for Linux just aren't out there in the wild and if you use Chrome, Java is sandboxed. My gear isn't working as a server and I noticed that large numbers of the updates are relevant only to systems acting as servers.....so I figured it was a fairly safe bet to stay as is. If anyone else would like to comment on what I have said above to the extent that I am stoopid, please feel free as I'd value the comment and if needed, force myself onto 11.4.
nikkels

Apr 16, 2012
7:10 PM EST
@ Ridcully

I am with you. Security updates are just about the last things which worry me. I even run without a firewall for 10 years already. Guess what ? No-one lurking in the dark waiting to get me :-)

I am sure this will get some response.............!!

OK, I agree that you need security to a certain degree, but if you have a weekly backup of all things,n no need to get paranoid.

Just my 2 nikkels
caitlyn

Apr 16, 2012
7:18 PM EST
I do too much security work and clean up way too much mess after someone (or usually a smallish to mid sized business) ignores security and it bites them hard. It pays well. It always takes way longer to clean up mess than to do things right the first time. Somehow, though, I never retain those customers even after they pay my nice, fat bill even if they acknowledge that I was less expensive that other alternatives. Those people never learn.

Using an unsupported distro with no security updates is inviting disaster. Thanks, but no thanks.
slacker_mike

Apr 16, 2012
7:39 PM EST
@Ridcully it isn't viruses I worry about it is my system being compromised that I worry about.

@nikkels I too backup my data weekly but again it isn't data loss that I fear more than my private data being compromised.

I guess I just acknowledge that there are far smarter people than myself who could hack my system, I figure the least I could do is just make sure my system has the least amount of exploits available.
nikkels

Apr 16, 2012
8:20 PM EST
OK I get what you want to say. Actually, I got it many years ago already :-)

As for private date...I just don't put it on my computer. I don't even have a credit card which can be stolen. My passwords, ....they can have them all

@ caitlyn I know what you are saying. I have been doing same in my younger days and got payd well for it. And <here>, ...yes..., this person learned........the very hard way. Even if I run without security, even if you take my whole computer, you got nothing and I lost nothing. I sleep well , except the days my teenage neighbors have a hip-hop party
Steven_Rosenber

Apr 17, 2012
6:28 PM EST
Security updates are a good thing. Don't compute without them.
Ridcully

Apr 17, 2012
10:26 PM EST
@Everybody after my last post......Okay, okay, okay .......I got the message......I am now running openSUSE 11.4, fully updated with all patches and KDE4.6.......I shall force myself to like it although it's no different really. And with all the updates and patches, it actually seems to be a bit smoother than I recall. I shall spend the day transferring any important data from the previous 11.3 drive and it can act as an archive anyhow. Thanks for all the help and comments everyone. :-) Much appreciated.
Fettoosh

Apr 18, 2012
7:23 AM EST
Quoting: ... fully updated with all patches and KDE4.6


Hold on @Ridcully, not so fast. You are not finished yet. :-)

The latest and greatest is KDE 4.8.2, which is even better and faster.

I can tell it is faster because I run it on an old clunker test machine (1.GHz 512MB) and also on my production one. Go for it while you are testing on a different drive and if you haven't copied your data.



nikkels

Apr 18, 2012
7:35 AM EST
I can confirm that it is < much > faster than 4.6.5 on <my> machine. But I don't know if it is better. Time will tell I guess
slacker_mike

Apr 18, 2012
7:38 AM EST
I have to agree with Fettoosh. I am not normally a KDE guy but I upgraded my Slackware 13.37 install with KDE 4.5.5 to Slackware current with 4.8.2 and this version of KDE is pretty great. This seems like the most responsive version of the KDE 4 series. I have only been using a couple days so far but it is impressive. By the way 11.4 will only be supported until September 2012 while 12.1 will be supported until May 2013.
Ridcully

Apr 18, 2012
7:57 AM EST
@Fettoosh, nikkels and slacker_mike........Forgeddit !!! Here I sit until I am satisfied with openSUSE 12.2 and KDE4.8.1/2 which will be released by SUSE in June or thereabouts and that is what I will transfer to. I'm cheating a bit because this installation of openSUSE 11.4 and KDE4.6 was put together early this year and has been sitting here since then. It has now been updated etc. and my special data files updated as well. I'm quite happy thankyou.

Remember what I said in my LONG posting above in which I finally got KMail to do what I want it to do.....BUT......it doesn't mean I won't be having a play with the latest versions on that other test drive. From what you are saying, I expect to be delighted with the results.
dinotrac

Apr 18, 2012
7:59 AM EST
Sounds like KDE 4.X has become pretty good code, maybe even good software.

Big question: when is KDE 5 coming around, and will we see the same approach?
Fettoosh

Apr 18, 2012
9:23 AM EST
Quoting:I can tell it is faster because I run it on an old clunker test machine (1.GHz 512MB)


Just to make sure what I said above is not deceiving anyone, I said faster and that is relative to the previous versions. It doesn't mean that performance is acceptable on such machine and can be used for production. It is not and can't be used for production. I only use that machine for testing and since small improvement in performance is more noticeable.

@Ridcully,

I was only giving you more hard time than you already went through. :-)

Quoting:But I don't know if it is better.


I said it is better since there were many bugs that were fixed and problem applications, like Akonadi and semantic search has improved quite a bit. They no longer hog the the CPU like before and only the first time indexing keeps it busy temporarily. That should be normal to those who intend to use it. Turning this feature of is now much easier now.

Quoting:Big question: when is KDE 5 coming around, and will we see the same approach?


@Dino,

KDE 5 is still waiting for Qt 5, which is still beta I believe. Qt5 will be implemented in Plasma Active first, I believe parts are already being implemented.

In terms of similar fiasco happening again I personally doubt it for couple reasons.

The change from Qt4 to Qt5 is not as drastic. The same with KDE, 4 to 5. The major part that caused most of the problems encountered going to KDE 4 is Plasma Desktop. That is not going to change much in five except for some improvement that were developed and tested in Plasma Active.

I think Aaron Seigo wrote about that in his blog and if I can find the link I will add it.

The other I believe is that they learned their lesson because of the strong beating they got last time.

KDE 5.0 will be some time next year, I believe.

dinotrac

Apr 18, 2012
10:16 AM EST
@fettoosh -

A solid and user-respectful upgrade to 5.0 would do a long way towards extinguishing lingering doubts.

It helps that they seem to have decided that users are not the enemy.
Fettoosh

Apr 18, 2012
11:27 AM EST
Quoting:A solid and user-respectful upgrade to 5.0 would do a long way towards extinguishing lingering doubts.


So true and to gain them back on their side.

But What I am afraid of is that some of those developers gave up on doing that just because of the very high level of user complains even when the complains were justified.

dinotrac

Apr 18, 2012
1:11 PM EST
@fet -

Perhaps, but, honestly, one is better rid of developers who get into a snit when somebody expresses justifiable consternation with their work.

The difference between software that matters and mere code is that software is done for a purpose, and that carries with it some implications. People who can't deal with that may call themselves coders, but never software developers.
Fettoosh

Apr 18, 2012
3:45 PM EST
That would be problematic since they are strapped for coding resources. Sometimes one have to tolerate such behavior for the sake of free coding.





dinotrac

Apr 18, 2012
4:02 PM EST
conversely, if you want to get reputation points for working on a major project with tons of users, sometimes one have to tolerate users who care about what you do. If you can't do that, you should be working anonymously.
Ridcully

Apr 19, 2012
3:59 AM EST
@Fettoosh

Quoting:@Ridcully,

I was only giving you more hard time than you already went through. :-)


Of course, you realise this means war ? LOL. (With apologies to a wascally gwey wabbit)
Fettoosh

Apr 19, 2012
8:21 AM EST
@Dino, We all know nothing is perfect, right?

Fettoosh

Apr 19, 2012
8:46 AM EST
Quoting:Of course, you realise this means war ? LOL.


You mean like this one this one

Still cracks me up. :-)

Ridcully

Apr 19, 2012
4:53 PM EST
You've got the idea......Usually it is Bugs actually saying those words if he has been "got". And I absolutely love this "dreadful caricature" of the Tasmanian Devil in any of the series of cartoons that deals with him......cracks me up as well.

On a very sad note, right now, the tasmanian devils are a highly threatened species due to the occurrence of a terrible communicable and fatal facial cancer. It is looking very much as if the species may become extinct on the Tasmanian island. Colonies of disease free animals are already being established on isolated islands and elsewhere so that the species can be reintroduced after it is "wiped out" by the disease. Unfortunately, devils tend to bite each other in the facial area as part of "love making" and this spreads the cancer. It is invariably fatal to the animal - destroys all jaw and facial tissues. So far there has been no breakthrough as far as I know, other than isolation of uninfected colonies.
Fettoosh

Apr 19, 2012
7:25 PM EST
Quoting:On a very sad note,


oh my, I didn't know. It sounds serious and sad in deed. I read about it on Wikipedia

I hope they find a remedy as they describe here

Ridcully

Apr 19, 2012
9:47 PM EST
That isolated group sounds promising, but it may be healthy solely because it has been so remotely sited. The problem is at least partially to do with the incredibly reduced genetic variety in the Tas Devil species itself. I'm biologically trained in fungi, and I do know that with respect to plant diseases, one of the biggest pluses of all when a new disease hits is that there should be plenty of genetic variation in the host.....one of the varieties will be found to have higher resistance/tolerance to the pathogen......and that is the point where you start the fight back. This sort of variation is absent from the devil population, although that West Pencil Pines group seem to be indicating that there is some variation present in their small group. I will certainly cross my fingers as they really are delightful animals despite their dreadful calls and robust behaviour. This article says it all:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tasmanian_devil
tracyanne

Apr 19, 2012
10:19 PM EST
Thinking very seriously, at the moment, of installing Mint Debian + KDE, if I can get latest KDE. Just installed Mint Debian XFCE, on a VM, to get latest Mono/MonoDevelop. The only problem I have is it doesn't work properly with dual monitors on VirtualBox, which makes me a little concerned.
Ridcully

Apr 19, 2012
10:29 PM EST
Hi Tracyanne.......was in Brisbane yesterday and saw something that really sent my eyebrows over my head. In the past this particular friend of mine at UQld has always had a huge Windows box plugged into the local server......Not any more. He's running a Dell Inspirion laptop (I think that's what it is) which is networked with the system and he appears to be running Win7..........but underneath ? Ubuntu.....and Win7 is a virtual machine. Just a flick of a button and there was the classic Ubuntu interface.....His only gripe is he wants more memory but the present laptop he has won't allow him to put any more in. However, he was keeping up a pretty good rate of work as I watched him. I have never played with VMs but yesterday I really appreciated their flexibility and operation. It makes one wonder just how many others are doing this as well, and you simply would not know. Lots and lots I reckon.
slacker_mike

Apr 19, 2012
10:36 PM EST
@tracyanne as far as I know Debian's KDE is still at version 4.7.4 http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/
tracyanne

Apr 20, 2012
12:28 AM EST
I think I could live with that, as my testing 4.7.4, and liking it, was what started this thread. Which means Mint Debian is still a definite maybe.
tracyanne

Apr 20, 2012
12:35 AM EST
Depending on what he's doing with Win7, Win 7 will work acceptable on a single core and 512 Meg of RAM. I used the Trial version like that to test websites on IE Safari and Chrome, and FF for Windows (there is a small but noticable difference between Windows and Linux, how FF handles CSS boxes, the metrics seem to be slightly different).

The only problem I had with it was the register me messages, which insisted I had an illegal version. I suppose by Microsoft's definition, it was, after all I hadn't registered it.
Ridcully

Apr 20, 2012
4:41 AM EST
@tracyanne......he's got 4Gig of RAM in that laptop but would like at least 8Gig.....He's using software running on Java and very large database files, but in addition is also running extremely large database files manipulated in Window based software designed by the centre of which he is the current administrative head. The software is the Lucid biological key system on Java and Fact Sheet Fusion which is a program designed to put together the data sheets for Lucid but which runs on Windows and again needs very large database files......Fascinating stuff if you are interested in it but it is mainly biological applications. I must admit I was envious of his skills at Ctrl shortcuts..........will have to learn them myself shortly as I will be deeply involved in some of the database production.
tracyanne

Apr 20, 2012
7:47 AM EST
If he's wanting to buy a new machine that can be guaranteed to run Linux, and has 8 + Gig of RAM, at a reasonable cost, he should try Pioneer Computers. That's where I get my laptops from. You can get them with no OS, Ubuntu or Windows.
slacker_mike

Apr 20, 2012
9:17 PM EST
I have to say after using KDE 4.8.2 for a week I am a huge fan. I haven't even booted back into Fluxbox all week. Kudos to the KDE Devs this desktop really rocks. I might even try out KMail with my gmail account and see how that goes.
Fettoosh

Apr 20, 2012
10:17 PM EST
Quoting:I might even try out KMail with my gmail account and see how that goes.


@Slaker_mike,

I have been meaning to do that but not enough time. I would be very appreciative if you could write some details when you get that working.

slacker_mike

Apr 20, 2012
10:24 PM EST
@Fettoosh, sure thing. I am going to try and get it going over the weekend. I will make notes as I go through it.
Ridcully

Apr 20, 2012
10:48 PM EST
@slacker_mike......me too please; I'd be very interested in any of your findings. I think if you are starting KMail from "scratch" there is no problem. My biggest problems were getting previous archives into KMail so that you could use your daily emails immediately as they were in the last DE. Import facilities may have improved or there may be better guidelines.....But I'd really like to know anything you find out.
caitlyn

Apr 20, 2012
10:53 PM EST
I'm going to be playing the the heavily modified KDE 4.8.1 in ROSA Desktop 2012 Marathon. I realize that isn't quite the same thing as just KDE but it does look interesting and has some unique apps.
slacker_mike

Apr 20, 2012
10:54 PM EST
@Ridcully well then my notes won't be much use to either of you. I haven't used used KMail before so this would be starting from scratch.
dinotrac

Apr 21, 2012
8:48 AM EST
Goodness!

You guys are getting way too palsy-walsy.

Can't have that, so...

KDE is a big fat pig that'll sleep with your wife/husband/boyfriend/girlfriend/livestock and pee in your coffee.
gus3

Apr 21, 2012
4:29 PM EST
@dinotrac, sure, if you wait long enough. But that's true of all of them.
dinotrac

Apr 21, 2012
11:37 PM EST
Ba da bing...
Ridcully

Apr 22, 2012
1:35 AM EST
What would LXer be without its Court Jester......a highly respected and revered office which points out with impugnity the failings of we mere mortals. Dinotrac, I salute you. May you continue to hurl delightful barbs at our jaded minds and stimulate us to deep philosophical discussions. Mind you, in the posts above, you did say this:

Quoting:Sounds like KDE 4.X has become pretty good code, maybe even good software.


So I am sure, absolutely sure, that your statement directly above is meant in the best of good humour. Ba da bing, MkII ?
nikkels

Apr 22, 2012
2:30 AM EST
So I am sure, absolutely sure, that your statement directly above """is meant in the best of good humour""". Ba da bing, MkII ?

Sorry to poor cold water over your head ! Maybe you remember from previous posts that I actually prefer KDE3.5.10 above KDE4.6.5

I have 2 test-partitions on my HD, both KDE4.8.2. Time for humour is gone.

Pretty, fast, solid and the only thing that still puts me off is Konqueror and partly Dolphin which are still showing signs of incompetence in a limited area of file and folder management. But I have been told that that is the next on the list.

So, take your Ba da bing, and store it in the kwe li lon pwaa

Respectfully yours smile smile smial
Ridcully

Apr 22, 2012
3:18 AM EST
@nikkels.......exactly whose post are you referring to ? If you are talking about my post directly above, it was meant with the best of humorous good intentions and had nothing to do with imputing anything against your good self.....
nikkels

Apr 22, 2012
3:39 AM EST
@Ridcully

:-) I know !

I would never react in anger over a bunch of " ones and zeros ".. Unless of course I had a really, really bad hairdo-day , as Caitlyn used to ask me. Or was it Traceyanne.

Peace my friend Nikkels

Ridcully

Apr 22, 2012
5:02 AM EST
@nikkels.....Great......I shall now return to my rest state of indolent somnolence..with a touch of decadence and a smidgeon of epicurean hedonism thrown in for good measure.....preferably a single malt. And your thoughts are reciprocated Nikkels...... :-)
dinotrac

Apr 22, 2012
7:58 AM EST
Pitiful.

I give you guys so much to work with and this is the best you can do?

THIS IS THE INTERNET!

What's with all this reasoned civility?

And @nikkels, you might want to check that hair again.
Ridcully

Apr 22, 2012
8:45 AM EST
Dinotrac, I seem to recall a statement somewhere which goes: Be kind to your enemy, for by so doing you heap coals of fire on his head. LOL. Actually, there is no one thing more irritating than when you are doing your best to have a rumble with someone "who remains persistently and consistently kind in return.". It's okay dino, we like you anyway. Well, sort of, kind of.......perhaps........tolerated ? :-) Whatever, don't change.
caitlyn

Apr 25, 2012
7:53 PM EST
I've got KDE 4.8.2 in ROSA 2012 Beta on my desktop. Really nicely done.
Koriel

Apr 25, 2012
8:08 PM EST
I hope to be switching to KDE within another week, I am ordering more ram for my machines although I will keep my xfce around for gtk environment testing purposes.
caitlyn

Apr 25, 2012
9:26 PM EST
I still really like Xfce. LXDE has grown on me as well but it's still missing features that I don't want to live without.
Ridcully

Apr 26, 2012
6:55 AM EST
@caitlyn....everything I have seen so far indicates KDE4.8.2 is stunning as regards speed, removal of bugs and general operation. I am waiting until openSUSE has it all put together in version 12.2, and rather impatiently I must admit. I'll definitely download openSUSE 12.2 beta as soon as it comes out and play to my heart's content.
nikkels

Apr 26, 2012
8:21 AM EST
With some luck they will put 4.8.3 in it. This is a bug-fix release and a few enhancements

I am playing with 4.8.2 for a week, and it's fast, No arguments about that !

I think I may let go of KDE3 if I get used to a 2 or 4 pane file manager. I am trying 4Pane ( next to midnight commander and krusader ) It takes a while to get rid of the geeyouIj addiction, I guess.
DrGeoffrey

Apr 26, 2012
4:29 PM EST
Quoting:I am playing with 4.8.2 for a week, and it's fast, No arguments about that !


OK, folks. Perhaps when compared to 4.7.x, it may be fast. But on my 4GB atom lappy, it's still a slug when compared to XFCE.
nikkels

Apr 26, 2012
7:21 PM EST
No, it's compared to 4.6.5

And XFCE is not faster on my laptop, also 4G ram.

I click any app, it opens in a split second. How much faster do you want ?

XFCE also looks darn nice. I like it a lot.
DrGeoffrey

Apr 26, 2012
7:51 PM EST
Hmmm, could be the atom CPU, could be I installed it on Sabayon (new install). Sabayon XFCE is even faster than LMDE (as long as you do not use Thunar; use PCManFM instead). And, you are right, the difference is, in the broad scheme of things, fairly trivial. But, I can see the difference, even if it's only a few milliseconds per application load (or screen redraw). And if you can see it, it's appreciable.

Anywho, my point was a simple YMMV. And it seems like everyone drives a different car.
Fettoosh

Apr 26, 2012
8:08 PM EST
Quoting:But on my 4GB atom lappy, it's still a slug when compared to XFCE.


It could also be your graphics driver. I would check to see if you have the right driver/configuration. It also could be you hrad drive being 5400 rpm instead of 7200. So you are right, YMMV.

I am running KDE 4.8.2 on an Atom 330 with 2GB and on a new Netbox with Atom 435 also with 2GB and it runs really fast except for Chrome when it has to open multiple pages at launch.

I just updated both to Kubuntu 12.04 (kernel 3.2) and they are even faster now.

nikkels

Apr 26, 2012
8:35 PM EST
>>>I just updated both to Kubuntu 12.04 (kernel 3.2) and they are even faster now.<<<

I have a few old KDE ( 4.6,5 and 4.7.x ) where I only upgraded the kernel to 3.2.xx Only that makes a big visible difference
Fettoosh

Apr 27, 2012
11:56 AM EST
Quoting:I have a few old KDE ...


Actually, I have Kubuntu 12.04 on very old desktop (Compaq Deskpro 1 GHz 512 MB) that I use for testing purposes. It had Kubuntu 11.10 with 2.6.x It ran OK but now with 3.2.x, runs decently enough to use for small things. I certainly see a visible improvement brought on by Linux 3.2.x

Quoting:But on my 4GB atom lappy, it's still a slug when compared to XFCE


@DrGeoffrey,

One other thing you might want to check is if you have "Desktop Effects" checked/selected. It also slows down KDE, especially when graphics card driver configuration not working properly.



DrGeoffrey

Apr 29, 2012
2:06 PM EST
Ok. I've now reinstalled Sabayon KDE 64 and, I'm happy to report, KDE is no where near the 'slug' I first reported. It's not as fast as XFCE, but it's no slouch, either.

As suggested by Fettoosh I've dialed back the desktop effects a bit, and achieved additional gains.

Methinks I shall experiment with it a bit.

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