Sam Varghese speaks the truth
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| Author | Content |
|---|---|
| Steven_Rosenber Apr 29, 2013 1:44 AM EDT |
Very, very unfortunately, Sam Varghese is right about Linux installation and Windows 8. I just got an HP laptop with OEM-installed Windows 8. It looks like the thing has five partitions (I have no idea how they got over four, but maybe it has something to do with UEFI). You know how confident I am that the installers for Ubuntu or Fedora can successfully install Linux and maintain a Linux-Win8 dual boot system? Not at all. I don't see any documentation that addresses this huge number of Windows partitions, and I'm very pessimistic about being able to boot Windows at all if I start the process. I'm working with a separate hard drive that will be dedicated to Linux. But when you're talking about new users, they're going to want to dual-boot, and these big distributions are woefully behind at figuring this out for real-world Windows 8 installations. |
| gary_newell Apr 29, 2013 3:52 AM EDT |
I think when it is time for me to buy a new computer I will try and buy one that is built for Linux to start with and that doesn't have Windows installed at all. My friend just bought a Dell XPS (can't remember the number) notebook pre-installed with Ubuntu. Dance with the devil? No I'll just go to a different club. |
| djohnston Apr 29, 2013 6:09 AM EDT |
Quoting:It looks like the thing has five partitions (I have no idea how they got over four, but maybe it has something to do with UEFI). Steven, the GPT (GUID Partition Table) which replaces MBR is part of the EFI specification. The GPT allows for more than 4 primary partitions. There's a low-cost proprietary boot manager called BootItNG that has used a software version of GPT for many years. Using their software, you can create, manage and boot (if I remember correctly) up to 255 primary partitions. This is on a machine with old-school MBR BIOS. DISCLAIMER: I'm not affiliated with TerabyteUnlimited. But, I did use it a few years back when I was booting Windows alongside several other OSes. Their tools work as advertised, and are not prohibitively expensive. If anyone is interested, the site is: http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/bootit-next-generation.htm. I'm still using GRUB, now that I've switched exclusively to Linux. |
| penguinist Apr 29, 2013 9:19 AM EDT |
"parted" supports the GPT format and works fine with the UEFI bios replacement:yum install parted apt-get install parted |
| JaseP Apr 29, 2013 9:44 AM EDT |
You have to make sure the version of parted you are using supports GPT (older versions do not)... Plus UEFI, not the secure boot part but just the UEFI extensions, are also a "rhymes with witch" to work with,... The bootloader needs to support UEFI extensions,... On the Dell laptop I got in Dec., I just gave up,... deactivated secure boot, enabled legacy booting, and went the "normal" way... Frankly, I didn't have the time or inclination to learn something new, and was actually surprised the machine came pre-loaded with Win8 vs. Win7... UEFI is a great idea,... but like many great ideas, fails to live up to expectations where the rubber meets the road. |
| Jeff91 Apr 29, 2013 12:38 PM EDT |
This is one of the many reasons I've always advocated that "Joe User" shouldn't be installing his own operating system. We don't expect such people to install Windows and we shouldn't expect it from Linux either. I've always advocated people should manually partition their drives when installing operating systems - and that still holds true today. I've seen countless people report issues with modern installers foobaring even Windows 7/XP dual boots - if you want it done right do it yourself. There are just so many variables that go into an "automatic partitioning" equation that it is always going to fail in some cases (and do a poor job in others). ~Jeff |
| Steven_Rosenber Apr 29, 2013 1:54 PM EDT |
Quoting:Steven, the GPT (GUID Partition Table) which replaces MBR is part of the EFI specification. The GPT allows for more than 4 primary partitions. Thanks @djohnston. This information isn't all that easy to come by. There aren't that many devs and/or documentation writers working with systems that ship with Windows 8 to make all of this clear. All I've heard so far is "I installed Linux to dual-boot and now can't boot Win 8." |
| JaseP Apr 29, 2013 5:00 PM EDT |
Quoting: All I've heard so far is "I installed Linux to dual-boot and now can't boot Win 8." The correct response to that statement is, "Why would you want to?" |
| Steven_Rosenber Apr 30, 2013 12:16 AM EDT |
I had a Debian/Win 7 dual boot for a few years. Sure, I rarely used Win 7, but a Linux-Windows dual-boot is hardly an edge case. If you want to drag in new users, the lack of an easy dual-boot installation places Linux firmly in "preaching to the choir" territory. |
| JaseP May 01, 2013 1:12 AM EDT |
Quoting: If you want to drag in new users, the lack of an easy dual-boot installation places Linux firmly in "preaching to the choir" territory. That's a very good point. I'm left wondering who's fault that is... Actually, I'm not. I know who's fault it is. I'm REALLY left wondering why it isn't shouted from rooftops who's fault it is... |
| BernardSwiss May 01, 2013 3:14 AM EDT |
> I'm REALLY left wondering why it isn't shouted from rooftops who's fault it is. Maybe because there's a lot less advertising money to be made from Linux-oriented publications, than from Windows-oriented publications? (Man, am I ever getting cynical in my old age). |
| jdixon May 01, 2013 7:08 AM EDT |
> Man, am I ever getting cynical in my old age Not really, no. :( |
| caitlyn May 01, 2013 4:17 PM EDT |
I was cynical from a very early age. |
| Steven_Rosenber May 01, 2013 7:12 PM EDT |
I don't know if it was a fix in the final version, or the difference between installing beginning at the GRUB menu or in the live desktop, but I finally got Xubuntu 13.04 to install and run under UEFI Secure Boot. I wanted to go with Fedora, but I was having trouble with the freedom-hating Netflix Desktop pile of programs. So it's Xubuntu 13.04 on my Secure-Boot-enabled machine. Not as a dual-boot just yet ... |
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