Asus to unlock Transformer Prime's bootloader, issue Android 4 update

I don't know of many drivers for ARM devices that aren't supported. Most could be obtained in the Android kernel sources. Since most drivers would be for wifi and Bluetooth chipsets, maybe a few touch controllers, you'd find them in the source tree... The only things you wouldn't would be the graphics drivers for PowerVR chipsets, and stuff like that. Most everything else would likely hook into the kernel, and so would have to be GPL'd.

Quoting: If you don't agree with my point that is FINE, but if you are going to say so - please provide a logical means of why you don't agree.

I don't think anyone is disagreeing with your general point, I think what they disagree with is what is more important and crucial to FOSS. Both boot loaders & drivers are important but, bootloader are more so since they are the main gate to the hardware (house) and drivers are inside doors to the various components & peripherals (rooms).

It seems pretty clear that the UEFI issue is a more immediate concern for a lot more people.

Installing Linux or your alternative preferred Windows onto a desktop is something that people are more likely to do than attempting to program an ARM device on an embedded system.

I guess that is why the story has more prominence at the moment, that and the fact that the news is fresher in the public's perception.

Open source ARM device drivers are important, but they directly affect far fewer people in an immediate way.

JaseP if you know of an ARM device (tablet preferred) that has fully GPU/Wifi/Audio under a standard Linux distribution please let me know. I've been looking for awhile and worked on more than a few and have yet to find one.

~Jeff

It's a funny thing, Jeff, most journalists would consider your original comment as a troll, a very boring, done-to-death troll. It's a news story about ASUS unlocking their bootloader, and no matter how long you hold your breath or how purple you turn, not mentioning software freedom doesn't invalidate the story. There are thousands of stories that have been published over the years on closed and open drivers, but locked bootloaders are a recent phenomenon. I suggest that you get glad on the same horse you got mad on.

Yes Tuxchick - but ARM devices are a very recent development and the fact that they are a "system on a chip" makes a lack of open source drivers even a bigger critical issue. There are piles of articles written about the issue of closed source drivers as related to systems on a chip/ARM devices? Because I haven't see any recently.

It wasn't a comment on this article specifically, but again on the fact that no one seems to care about the lack of functionality of alternative systems on ARM systems. This article is about an ARM system, so it is semi-related.

Yes, maybe the thread was post in the wrong section and the title was a poor choice. But the issue I am talking about is a very serious issue.

~Jeff

"You know what you should also be complaining about? All the closed source drivers that power your ARM devices."

And then

"even with an unlocked boot loader you aren't going to be able to use much in the means of an alternative OS anyways" (because of the closed source drivers - sorry if that wasn't clear)

Then

"both have to do with how functional you can make said device with an alternative operating system" (both meaning boot loader and drivers)

Sorry, I've read and re-read what I posted. They all follow the same idea - closed source drivers are a huge issue on the ARM platform.

"I noticed it didn't address world hunger, child slavery, or the mistreatment of the Andorians on Romulus V either."

That is a completely off the wall comment. I didn't say everyone, needs to address everything in every post. I simply said the issue of drivers should be address at least as much as the issue of boot loaders. Two technology topics related to the same type of hardware.

~Jeff

@Jeff91: I think you are confusing what is important to you with what is important to everyone else.

Believe it or not, most other people couldn't give a rat's arse about open source ARM drivers, but they do care (at least most people reading this resource) that they can install their OS of choice on their desktop. Now I know that the driver support is in some way linked to to options of what OSes will actually run on your hardware, but mainly the issue is about running Linux on x86-based desktop hardware.

Secondly, as a more general point, the issue of closed source drivers is mostly a question of manufacturer apathy. Some are secretive about their code but I think most just can't be bothered catering for the free software movement. If it doesn't increase their bottom line, then it is not a high priority for them.

The outcry about the UEFI issue is a feeling that we've been there before with the likes of Microsoft in that they are likely to make positive efforts to lock the hardware down to lock people into Windows and indeed that particular OEM version of it. I think the outcry is justified. We know enough about Microsoft's history to realise that this is just the kind of thing that they get up to behind closed doors with their back-room deals with the big box shifters.

Any good news on this front from a big-name supplier of x86 is good news as far as I'm concerned.

If any freedom lovers would like to donate an android phone to me that would be nice, i certainly can't afford one even just to whine about it :)

jeff91: perhaps the geeksphone is of interest to you? it comes unlocked, but unfortunately the default install does include nonfree software. i don't know about non-free drivers though.

sorry koriel, as jeff91 noted, none of the available phones are free enough to not make giving one to you a heresy. (the openmoko and potentially the geeksphone would be an exception :-)

greetings, eMBee.

Quoting: JaseP if you know of an ARM device (tablet preferred) that has fully GPU/Wifi/Audio under a standard Linux distribution please let me know.

@Jeff:

OK, Jeff, you realize that you're being just a little disingenuous with that request, considering I stated GPU considerations aside, right?!?! I challenge you to find an X86or RISC system, other than the 900Mhz netbook that Stallman uses, that is 100% free of any proprietary binary snippets, etc. Any device that has Bluetooth support will include closed drivers, or at least binary firmware accessed by open source shims.

It's an unfortunate reality. I don't own a single system that doesn't load at least one piece of proprietary firmware. And, I only have ONE system that runs any M$ OSes (ironically, one of the few that came with Linux pre-installed), and that only for cases where I have to flash firmware on some embedded device.

Come to think of it,... The system that Stallman uses may meet your requirements, ... It possibly is a relative of ARM architecture ... Although, I don't know that as a fact.

JaseP: stallmans laptop has a loongson cpu, which is a mipsel clone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loongson

greetings, eMBee.

JaseP At least our x86 systems function on a variety of Operating Systems though.

ARM systems do not.

~Jeff

Who makes a x86 SmartPhone, Jeff? I'm eagerly awaiting your recommendation. Might as well throw in a few tablet recommendations too.

Push comes to shove, you can always boot an ARM system with an Android kernel & then run a chroot to another kernel & system.

Oh, and the Nokia N900 will run Maemo, Meego & Android ... Plus you can run a Ubuntu variant in a chroot scenario, as indicated above (plus, custom kernels exist for it as well).

By the way,... The compal MIDs were/are x86 devices with phone capabilities ... They are/were available rebranded as Aigo & Gigabyte devices... Maybe a couple others.

Quoting:Might as well throw in a few tablet recommendations too.

I am not sure about x86 SmartPhone, but tablets is a different story.

WeTab, is expensive and is not yet available in The US.

http://wetab.mobi/en/shop/

But it is available on Amazon Europe.

http://www.amazon.de/WeTab-Zoll-Tablet-PC-Bluetooth-Wi-Fi/dp...

The WeTab is just a rebranded machine. I can't remember if is was a Compal machine, or someone else's. MS used to sell the Win7 version on their website. Someone else sells them in Canada (or did). It was too pricy for the specs, which were similar to the Dell Inspiron Duo, minus the Duo's flipscreen and keyboard. I ultimately ended up with the Duo.

The x86 "phone" I refered to was the Compal MID, which had also been rebranded as the Aigo 8800 series, if I remember right. They may still be available, but are now under powered and rely on the GMA500, with its PowerVR innards... Meaning, it'll take work to get it going under A modern X server.

Thank you for making my point. Except for a few obscure devices you're smartphones and tablets have ARM processors, as do low end netbooks. Instead of dismissing the popular hardware, how about more people doing things like getting the ARM builds of Debian and Slackware to work with at least the tablets and the netbooks. That would seem to be a more positive direction to explore.

For those of us who are pragmatists and really not wedded to the RMS/FSF philosophy, well... we're going to use what works well. My next phone will probably be an Android phone. At the moment I still have a decidedly proprietary Crackberry that still serves my needs well.

Caitlyn - I admire your wanting to get Debian ARM running on these different devices. You talk to me when you have done so.

My frustration towards the ARM platform stems from trying to do just this. Over a half a dozen ARM systems later I have yet to be able to get Debian fully running on a device it didn't come pre-installed on. Closed source firmware is always the bottle neck that companies have no interest in helping us over come. The nature of ARM "system in a chip" and the fact that a good deal of ARM systems are so different make writing open source drivers impractical - we would need different drivers for almost every device! Meaning by the time we got a decent driver working the hardware would be dated odds are.

Yes ARM is being used a lot and it is a platform I would like to work on - but the support just isn't there and companies making the hardware don't seem to have any interest in getting the support there. Which I can almost see to a point, companies just want to make money. They don't see any extra funds by letting people install different OSes on their hardware.

It sucks, but really thats the way it is.

~Jeff